This article is from the source 'bbc' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.

You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-14501236

The article has changed 12 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.

Version 9 Version 10
Riots: Sir Hugh Orde denies rift with ministers Riots: Police defend handling of crisis after criticism
(about 2 hours later)
  
The head of the Association of Chief Police Officers has denied a rift with ministers despite criticism from them of the handling of this week's riots. Police chiefs have defended their handling of this week's riots despite criticism from the prime minister.
Sir Hugh Orde said he had received "outstanding" support from Home Secretary Theresa May and said she accepted officers were not infallible. Association of Chief Police Officers president Sir Hugh Orde rejected suggestions that the restoration of calm was due to political intervention.
Earlier he rejected suggestions that the restoration of calm across England was due to political intervention. Acting Met Police commissioner Tim Godwin said comments were being made by people "who weren't there".
Mrs May had said it was her decision to cancel all police leave. David Cameron said police did make mistakes over numbers and tactics - but also praised the bravery of officers.
Acting Met Police Commissioner Tim Godwin denied police had been too "timid" in their initial response to the riots on Saturday - but he said decisions about tactics and numbers were "all police decisions". Mr Godwin denied police had been too "timid" in their initial response to the riots on Saturday - but he said that "if police officers had the benefit of hindsight as foresight we would obviously do things slightly differently".
He said that "if police officers had the benefit of hindsight as foresight we would obviously do things slightly differently", adding: "We always learn from what occurs." Ministers and police chiefs have clashed over who was responsible for bringing about a surge in police numbers on the streets of London from 6,000 on Monday to 16,000 on Tuesday.
Politicians 'irrelevant'Politicians 'irrelevant'
During an emergency parliamentary debate on Thursday, Mr Cameron told MPs "there were simply far too few police deployed on to our streets and the tactics they were using weren't working". Mr Cameron returned from holiday on Monday night and called an urgent meeting of emergencies committee Cobra.
"Initially, the police treated the situation too much as a public order issue - rather than essentially one of crime," he said. Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said the prime minister had been "very much in charge" of that meeting.
Mr Cameron returned from holiday on Monday night - a few hours after his home secretary - and called an urgent meeting of emergencies committee Cobra, which included Sir Hugh.
They might meet around the same table for the government's emergency Cobra meetings in Whitehall.They might meet around the same table for the government's emergency Cobra meetings in Whitehall.
But something of a verbal tussle has broken out between ministers and the police.But something of a verbal tussle has broken out between ministers and the police.
It boils down to a question of competence and who made the crucial decisions earlier this week.It boils down to a question of competence and who made the crucial decisions earlier this week.
The prime minister has criticised the number of police officers deployed in the first few nights of rioting, and their tactics.The prime minister has criticised the number of police officers deployed in the first few nights of rioting, and their tactics.
The home secretary has done the same.The home secretary has done the same.
Sir Hugh Orde, the President of the Association of Chief Police Officers, is having none of it.Sir Hugh Orde, the President of the Association of Chief Police Officers, is having none of it.
He said politicians flying back from their holidays were an "irrelevance" when it came to the shift in the police's approach.He said politicians flying back from their holidays were an "irrelevance" when it came to the shift in the police's approach.
He has denied there is any "rift" between the police and the government.He has denied there is any "rift" between the police and the government.
But the police are clearly irritated they are being publicly blamed for what went wrong, and politicians are trying to claim all the credit for turning things around.But the police are clearly irritated they are being publicly blamed for what went wrong, and politicians are trying to claim all the credit for turning things around.
Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said the prime minister had been "very much in charge" of that meeting. But Sir Hugh - who is seen as a leading contender to become the next Met Police commissioner - told the BBC that the subsequent restoration of calm on Tuesday night had not been down to political intervention.
Mrs May said she had spoken by conference call to all police chiefs on Wednesday and "ordered that all special constables should be mobilised, all police leave should be cancelled and the robust tactics used on Tuesday by the Metropolitan Police adopted by all forces dealing with public disorder".
But Sir Hugh - who is seen as a leading contender to become the next Met Police commissioner - told the BBC on Thursday that the subsequent restoration of calm on Tuesday night had not been down to political intervention.
"The fact that politicians chose to come back [from holiday] is an irrelevance in terms of the tactics that were by then developing," he told BBC Two's Newsnight."The fact that politicians chose to come back [from holiday] is an irrelevance in terms of the tactics that were by then developing," he told BBC Two's Newsnight.
"The more robust policing tactics you saw were not a function of political interference; they were a function of the numbers being available to allow the chief constables to change their tactics.""The more robust policing tactics you saw were not a function of political interference; they were a function of the numbers being available to allow the chief constables to change their tactics."
On Friday, he insisted there was "no rift" with government and said the home secretary had been "quite outstanding frankly". Senior police sources have told the BBC that plans to increase officer numbers in London were well advanced before the Cobra meeting on Tuesday.
BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw has learned that Scotland Yard made several calls to the Police National Information Co-ordination Centre on Monday requesting additional support.
Home Secretary Theresa May said she spoke by conference call to all police chiefs on Wednesday and "ordered that all special constables should be mobilised, all police leave should be cancelled and the robust tactics used on Tuesday by the Metropolitan Police adopted by all forces dealing with public disorder".
But Sir Hugh said she had "no power whatsoever" do that - and decisions about staffing were a matter for force commanders.
'Vital distinction'
He later denied there was any rift with the government and said the home secretary had given him "quite outstanding" support.
"She has praised police officers. She understands the complexity of the world in which we live and I think she very clearly understands that we cannot get it right all the time," he said."She has praised police officers. She understands the complexity of the world in which we live and I think she very clearly understands that we cannot get it right all the time," he said.
"But let's be very clear on one thing - the vital distinction between policing and politics remains. The police service will make the tactical decisions, and quite rightly and robustly, we should and must be held to account [by politicians].""But let's be very clear on one thing - the vital distinction between policing and politics remains. The police service will make the tactical decisions, and quite rightly and robustly, we should and must be held to account [by politicians]."
Asked whether she accepted that, in Sir Hugh's words, politicians were "irrelevant" to the restoration of calm, Mrs May said: "What I accept is that the people who got the riots under control were the police." Mrs May also sought to play down any suggestion that the government's was seeking to take credit for restoring calm, insisting: "What I accept is that the people who got the riots under control were the police."
Mr Cameron said police took the decision to increase officer numbers and change tactics, but the Cobra meeting helped commanders "by showing there was political backing for the changes they wanted to make". The prime minister said police chiefs took the decision to increase officer numbers and change tactics, and the Cobra meeting helped commanders "by showing there was political backing for the changes they wanted to make".
'A slight' But Police Federation vice-chairman Simon Reed said the suggestion that police had changed their approach after the government stepped in was "a cheap shot" - and Sir Hugh was "clearly upset".
Police Federation vice-chairman Simon Reed said the suggestion that police had changed their approach after the government stepped in was "a cheap shot" - and Sir Hugh was "clearly upset". 'Disingenuous'
"It's a slight on the professionalism of the police service and the rank and file because some of the language, some of the tone used, was that they were too timid - almost that they weren't brave enough."It's a slight on the professionalism of the police service and the rank and file because some of the language, some of the tone used, was that they were too timid - almost that they weren't brave enough.
"Rank and file officers will be very upset about those comments because these were unprecedented levels of violence that we saw.""Rank and file officers will be very upset about those comments because these were unprecedented levels of violence that we saw."
Ian Hanson, chairman of the Greater Manchester Police Federation, also said it was "disingenuous of politicians to say that they [had] sorted the problems out".Ian Hanson, chairman of the Greater Manchester Police Federation, also said it was "disingenuous of politicians to say that they [had] sorted the problems out".
Mr Reed said that the issue of planned cuts to the police force - which Labour have said should be abandoned - now needed to be urgently addressed. Labour have said the riots show that planned cuts to police budgets - and in turn, officer numbers - should be abandoned.
"If this had happened maybe in a year's time, when we'd have 10 or 12,000 fewer officers, we wouldn't have been able to mobilise police officers around the country because there simply wouldn't be any resilience left." Shadow Home Office minister Vernon Coaker told the BBC the government should be given the same sort of protection from spending cuts as the health and education sectors.
And he accused David Cameron and Theresa May of "playing politics" with policing and trying to "take the credit for tough and correct action taken by the police while at the same time trying to pass the buck for any criticisms back to them".
The Police Federation said that if the riots had happened in a year's time - with "10 or 12,000 fewer officers" - police would not have been able to mobilise resources in the way they have done this week.
But during Thursday's debate, the prime minister insisted the cuts were "totally achievable" without any reduction in the visible policing presence and said that a "surge" of officers - as seen in recent days - would still be possible in future.But during Thursday's debate, the prime minister insisted the cuts were "totally achievable" without any reduction in the visible policing presence and said that a "surge" of officers - as seen in recent days - would still be possible in future.
On Monday night about 6,000 police officers were on duty on the streets of London, including officers from neighbouring forces.
That number was increased to 16,000 on Tuesday after mob violence and looting erupted across the capital, with reinforcements from other forces around the country. They will remain in place over the weekend.
For Labour, shadow Home Office minister Vernon Coaker said: "It is wrong for the home secretary and the prime minister to try to take the credit for tough and correct action taken by the police while at the same time trying to pass the buck for any criticisms back to them."
Lose benefits
In other developments:In other developments:
The Metropolitan Police have made more than 1,000 arrests since the rioting began on Saturday, and more than 590 people have been charged.
West Midlands Police have arrested more than 400 people and more than 170 have so far been arrested in Manchester and Salford.
The riots first flared on Saturday after a peaceful protest in Tottenham over the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan, 29, by police.
Mr Duggan's death is being investigated by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.