'PM defends 'tough' riot sentences handed out by courts' diff viewer (9/10)

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PM defends 'tough' riot sentences handed out by courts	PM defends 'tough' riot sentences handed out by courts
2011-08-17 20:00:09 UTC	2011-08-17 22:10:05 UTC (about 2 hours later)

Prime Minister David Cameron has defended courts for handing out "tough" sentences for those involved in the riots across England.	Prime Minister David Cameron has defended courts for handing out "tough" sentences for those involved in the riots across England.
Some MPs and campaigners say there were examples of terms being too harsh.	Some MPs and campaigners say there were examples of terms being too harsh.
On Tuesday, two men were jailed for four years at Chester Crown Court for using Facebook to incite riots. One is to appeal against the sentence.	On Tuesday, two men were jailed for four years at Chester Crown Court for using Facebook to incite riots. One is to appeal against the sentence.
Lord Carlile, Lib Dem peer and Howard League for Penal Reform president, said some decisions were "questionable".	Lord Carlile, Lib Dem peer and Howard League for Penal Reform president, said some decisions were "questionable".
The barrister told the BBC "ringleaders should receive very long sentences" but warned "there was an issue of proportionality" over the way people already before the courts had been treated.	The barrister told the BBC "ringleaders should receive very long sentences" but warned "there was an issue of proportionality" over the way people already before the courts had been treated.
The PM said it was good that the courts were sending a "tough message".	The PM said it was good that the courts were sending a "tough message".
Speaking in Warrington, he said: "It's up to the courts to make decisions about sentencing, but they've decided to send a tough message and it's very good that the courts feel able to do that."	Speaking in Warrington, he said: "It's up to the courts to make decisions about sentencing, but they've decided to send a tough message and it's very good that the courts feel able to do that."
In other developments:	In other developments:
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall visited parts of London hit by recent violence and looting. The Prince's Trust charity has announced a £2.5m investment in the hardest-hit areas across England >LEx-Lib Dem leader Sir Menzies Campbell, a QC and former leading criminal prosecutor, has said any attempt by MPs to influence judges' decisions was "not consistent with the rule of law" Nottinghamshire Police say the disorder cost it more than £1m in extra policing The Metropolitan Police announces that more than 1,000 people have now been charged in connection with riots in the capital A teenager who represented her school as an Olympic Youth Ambassador denies offences linked to rioting in Enfield, north London A 17-year-old from Suffolk is banned from using social networking sites for 12 months and ordered to observe a three month overnight curfew for using Facebook to encourage people to riot. He admitted an offence of sending menacing messages but said his remarks were not meant to be taken seriously One of the men jailed over the Facebook messages after admitting an offence under the Serious Crime Act of intentionally encouraging another to assist the commission of an indictable offence is to appeal against his sentence. The solicitor for the second defendant says he may take the same action	A href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14567562" >fourth person has been charged with murdering three men who were hit by a car during riots in Birmingham. The 30-year-old man will appear in court on Thursday The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall visited parts of London hit by recent violence and looting. The Prince's Trust charity has announced a £2.5m investment in the hardest-hit areas across England >Ex-Lib Dem leader Sir Menzies Campbell, a QC and former leading criminal prosecutor, has said any attempt by MPs to influence judges' decisions was "not consistent with the rule of law" Nottinghamshire Police say the disorder cost it more than £1m in extra policing The Metropolitan Police announces that more than 1,000 people have now been charged in connection with riots in the capital A teenager who represented her school as an Olympic Youth Ambassador denies offences linked to rioting in Enfield, north London A 17-year-old from Suffolk is banned from using social networking sites for 12 months and ordered to observe a three month overnight curfew for using Facebook to encourage people to riot. He admitted an offence of sending menacing messages but said his remarks were not meant to be taken seriously One of the men jailed over the Facebook messages after admitting an offence under the Serious Crime Act of intentionally encouraging another to assist the commission of an indictable offence is to appeal against his sentence. The solicitor for the second defendant says he may take the same action
The Metropolitan Police have now charged more than 1,000 people in connection with the rioting and looting - and 21 of them appeared at Highbury Corner Magistrates' Court on Wednesday.	The Metropolitan Police have now charged more than 1,000 people in connection with the rioting and looting - and 21 of them appeared at Highbury Corner Magistrates' Court on Wednesday.
Chelsea Ives, denied burglary, violent disorder and attacking a police car, and held her head in her hands as she entered the dock. She was remanded in custody until 7 September. She had contacted police herself after a call to detectives by her mother. Her mother left the court in tears.	Chelsea Ives, denied burglary, violent disorder and attacking a police car, and held her head in her hands as she entered the dock. She was remanded in custody until 7 September. She had contacted police herself after a call to detectives by her mother. Her mother left the court in tears.
Almost all of the defendants dealt with by lunchtime were refused bail.	Almost all of the defendants dealt with by lunchtime were refused bail.
District Judge Nina Tempia said the circumstances of the rioting meant many defendants claiming previous good character could not be bailed.	District Judge Nina Tempia said the circumstances of the rioting meant many defendants claiming previous good character could not be bailed.
One defendant denied bail was supported by his family in court, offering bail sureties and guarantees he would be monitored at home. But he went back to jail, shaking his head as he was escorted away.	One defendant denied bail was supported by his family in court, offering bail sureties and guarantees he would be monitored at home. But he went back to jail, shaking his head as he was escorted away.
Are courts acting out of character? What happened to the rioters in court?	Are courts acting out of character? What happened to the rioters in court?
So far, more than 2,770 people have been arrested in connection with last week's riots.	So far, more than 2,770 people have been arrested in connection with last week's riots.
Some 1,297 people have now appeared before the courts, with the majority of charges relating to burglary, theft and handling, and violence and violent disorder offences.	Some 1,297 people have now appeared before the courts, with the majority of charges relating to burglary, theft and handling, and violence and violent disorder offences.
In a statement, the Ministry of Justice stressed that the magistrates and judges were independent of government.	In a statement, the Ministry of Justice stressed that the magistrates and judges were independent of government.
A spokesman added: "Their sentencing decisions are based on the individual circumstances of each case and offender.	A spokesman added: "Their sentencing decisions are based on the individual circumstances of each case and offender.
"That is why different offenders may be given different sentences for what might appear to be similar crimes. To provide a consistent base for these decisions an independent body of experts, the Sentencing Council, set guidelines for them to use."	"That is why different offenders may be given different sentences for what might appear to be similar crimes. To provide a consistent base for these decisions an independent body of experts, the Sentencing Council, set guidelines for them to use."
Meanwhile, the Courts and Tribunals Service says legal clerks in court have been advising magistrates to "consider whether their powers of punishment are sufficient in dealing with some cases arising from the recent disorder".	Meanwhile, the Courts and Tribunals Service says legal clerks in court have been advising magistrates to "consider whether their powers of punishment are sufficient in dealing with some cases arising from the recent disorder".
Magistrates are able to refer cases to crown courts which have tougher sentencing powers.	Magistrates are able to refer cases to crown courts which have tougher sentencing powers.
'Beyond the ordinary'	'Beyond the ordinary'
BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman said the sentences being handed out across the country for offences of dishonesty such as theft, burglary and receiving stolen goods, suggested there were disparities between courts.	BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman said the sentences being handed out across the country for offences of dishonesty such as theft, burglary and receiving stolen goods, suggested there were disparities between courts.
What the public was seeing may just be a "distorted version of the normal system", our correspondent said.	What the public was seeing may just be a "distorted version of the normal system", our correspondent said.
In another case, David Beswick, 31 from Salford was sentenced to 18 months in prison for handling stolen goods.	In another case, David Beswick, 31 from Salford was sentenced to 18 months in prison for handling stolen goods.
Our legal correspondent said under normal circumstances Beswick would have been given a mid-range community sentence.	Our legal correspondent said under normal circumstances Beswick would have been given a mid-range community sentence.
Max Hill QC, vice-chairman of the Criminal Bar Association said it was not the job of judges "to deliver a political message on behalf of the government" when passing sentence but part of their role was to identify "serious aggravating features that elevate the crime beyond the ordinary".	Max Hill QC, vice-chairman of the Criminal Bar Association said it was not the job of judges "to deliver a political message on behalf of the government" when passing sentence but part of their role was to identify "serious aggravating features that elevate the crime beyond the ordinary".
He added: "In the case of the two in Chester, it seems that is exactly what the judge has done."	He added: "In the case of the two in Chester, it seems that is exactly what the judge has done."
One serving judge, Charles Harris QC, told the BBC it was not possible for the courts to achieve absolute consistency in sentencing as "no two offences are the same".	One serving judge, Charles Harris QC, told the BBC it was not possible for the courts to achieve absolute consistency in sentencing as "no two offences are the same".
"Judge and magistrates do look in the best way they can at the circumstances of the offence and the offender in front of them. In some cases, they might legitimately say, this goes beyond any existing guideline," he added.	"Judge and magistrates do look in the best way they can at the circumstances of the offence and the offender in front of them. In some cases, they might legitimately say, this goes beyond any existing guideline," he added.
Communities Secretary Eric Pickles told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We need to understand that people for a while thought that this was a crime without consequence - we cannot have people being frightened in their beds, frightened in their own homes for their public safety.	Communities Secretary Eric Pickles told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We need to understand that people for a while thought that this was a crime without consequence - we cannot have people being frightened in their beds, frightened in their own homes for their public safety.
"That is why these kind of exemplary sentences are necessary. I think people would be rightly alarmed if that incitement to riot got off with just a slap on the wrist."	"That is why these kind of exemplary sentences are necessary. I think people would be rightly alarmed if that incitement to riot got off with just a slap on the wrist."