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EU referendum: Cameron makes appeal to rebel MPs EU referendum: Rebels lose vote in Commons
(40 minutes later)
  
David Cameron has issued a final appeal to his MPs not to rebel in a vote on a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union. MPs have rejected a call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union, despite a significant rebellion against Prime Minister David Cameron.
All Conservative MPs, and Lib Dem and Labour MPs, were instructed to vote against the motion but href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15387333" >61 Tory MPs have signed it and may defy the party whip. The motion was opposed by the Conservatives, Lib Dems and Labour, yet 111 voted for the motion, 483 against.
Mr Cameron, facing the biggest rebellion of his premiership, told them the approach and the timing was wrong. Before a five-hour debate, Mr Cameron told MPs it was the wrong time for a referendum and urged them not to rebel.
"The time for reform is coming," he said ahead of the debate. Two ministerial aides, who joined the rebellion, look set to lose their jobs.
The motion calls for a referendum on whether the UK should stay in the EU, leave the EU or renegotiate its membership. The Commons debate on the issue was prompted after a petition was signed by more than 100,000 people.
MPs have finished debating the motion and voting has got under way, with the results expected shortly. The government is expected to win it easily - and even if it lost, the result would not be binding on ministers. The motion called for a referendum on whether the UK should stay in the EU, leave it or renegotiate its membership.
"I share the yearning for fundamental reform and I am determined to deliver it," Mr Cameron said while making a Commons statement on the EU summit ahead of the debate. The government was expected to win easily - and even if it had lost, the result would not be binding on ministers.
"To those who are supporting today's motion, but don't actually want to leave the EU, I say to you this: I respect your views. We disagree about ends, not about means. The full results are still unconfirmed, but Commons leader Sir George Young told the BBC he believed 80 or 81 Tory MPs had rebelled.
"I support your aims. Like you, I want to see fundamental reform. Like you I want to refashion our membership of the EU so it better serves our country's interests." If true, this would be by far the biggest rebellion David Cameron has suffered since entering Downing Street.
'Not abstract' Conservative MP David Nuttall, who proposed the motion, argued there were more than 40 million people of voting age in the UK who had not been consulted on the question of Europe.
Mr Cameron insisted he remained "firmly committed" to "bringing back more powers" from Brussels, but on demands for a referendum, he said the timing was wrong and Britain's national interest was to be part of the EU. And he said the UK Parliament was becoming "ever more impotent" as the "tentacles" of the European Union "intruded into more and more areas of national life".
I'm a Eurosceptic too. That - boiled down - was David Cameron's message. Mark Pritchard, secretary of the powerful Tory 1922 committee, said the debate would be "a defining moment for many MPs who have for years called themselves Eurosceptic".
Like the Eurosceptics, the prime minister wants to claw back powers from Brussels. But that's a Conservative idea, not a coalition commitment agreed with the Lib Dems. 'Out-of-touch'
Like the Eurosceptics, he wants a referendum. But only if a treaty change transfers more powers to the EU. In a statement to the Commons, Mr Cameron said he shared the rebels' "yearning for fundamental reform", and promised "the time for reform was coming".
Some Conservatives feel they have heard enough buts, ifs and maybes. They are frustrated, and bruised by some tough treatment from the party whips. He insisted he remained "firmly committed" to "bringing back more powers" from Brussels, but on demands for a referendum, he said amid an economic crisis the timing was wrong and Britain's national interest was to be part of the EU.
But there is scant sympathy for their argument from frontbenchers who say rebels should not be surprised to find the government standing by its policies, however Eurosceptic the prime minister. "When your neighbour's house is on fire, your first impulse should be to help them to put out the flames - not least to stop the flames reaching your own house," he said.
Labour leader Ed Miliband, who was expected to see Eurosceptic MPs within his own party rebel, likened the Tories' divisions of Europe to a rerun of an old movie.
"Our national interest is for us to be in the EU, helping to determine the rules governing the single market - our biggest export market which consumes more than 50% of our exports and which drives so much of investment in the UK. He called the Tories an "out-of-touch party tearing itself apart over Europe".
"This is not an abstract, theoretical argument, it matters for millions of jobs and millions of families and businesses in our country." However, he did agree with the prime minister that it was the wrong time for a referendum.
It was also "not the right time - at this moment of economic crisis - to launch legislation that includes an in/out referendum", he said. "At this moment of all moments, the uncertainty that would ensue from Britain turning inwards over the next two years, to debate an in-out referendum is something our country cannot afford.
"When your neighbour's house is on fire, your first impulse should be to help them to put out the flames - not least to stop the flames reaching your own house." "The best answer to the concerns of the British people about the concerns of the European Union is to reform the way it works, not to leave it," he added.
Downing Street is applying a three-line whip - the strongest order a party can give - on Conservative MPs, meaning that any who vote against the government will be expected to resign from government jobs. 'Heavy heart'
Tory backbenchers voiced their dismay at the three-line whip - the strongest order a party can give - on Conservative MPs, which meant any who voted against the government would be expected to resign from government jobs.
Conservative MP Stewart Jackson told the Commons he would vote for the motion "with a heavy heart" and "take the consequences", which may mean losing his position as parliamentary private secretary to Northern Ireland Secretary Owen Paterson.Conservative MP Stewart Jackson told the Commons he would vote for the motion "with a heavy heart" and "take the consequences", which may mean losing his position as parliamentary private secretary to Northern Ireland Secretary Owen Paterson.
He said he wished there could have been a well-informed reasonable debate, instead of "heavy-handed whipping" and "catastrophic management" by his party.He said he wished there could have been a well-informed reasonable debate, instead of "heavy-handed whipping" and "catastrophic management" by his party.
Fellow Tory MP Adam Holloway, a parliamentary private secretary to Europe minister David Lidington, indicated he would rebel later, thereby losing his post. Fellow Tory MP Adam Holloway, a parliamentary private secretary to Europe minister David Lidington, had indicated he would rebel, thereby losing his post.
He urged his fellow MPs to show people the parliamentary system could work.He urged his fellow MPs to show people the parliamentary system could work.
"For seven years I have been wandering around the good people of Gravesham saying we should have a referendum. If you have done the same, then do it. You have got to support the motion," he said. To cheers in the chamber, he said: "If you can't support a particular policy then the honest course of action is of course to stand down, and I want decisions to be made more closely by the people they affect, by local communities, not upwards towards Brussels."
Conservative MP John Redwood, a veteran Eurosceptic, urged other MPs to "wake up" and give voters a referendum on Europe that is fundamental to British democracy. "If Britain's future as an independent country is not a proper matter for a referendum, then I have absolutely no idea what is."
"Brussels has too much power; the British people need a say. Let us have a vote," the former cabinet minister said. Later, he told BBC Radio 4's World Tonight he still believed the prime minister was doing a good job.
Labour leader Ed Miliband, who is likely to face a small rebellion from Eurosceptic MPs within his own party later, agreed the timing was not right. "I'm just a nothing little backbencher and he is the guy grappling with the stuff. It's just very difficult when you have no other option if you don't want to basically let your constituents down, as I would have done, given the particular stance that I have taken over the past few years."
"At this moment of all moments, the uncertainty that would ensue from Britain turning inwards over the next two years, to debate an in/out referendum is something our country cannot afford. 'Piece of graffiti'
"The best answer to the concerns of the British people about the concerns of the European Union is to reform the way it works, not to leave it," he added. Conservative Andrew Bridgen said dozens and dozens of his constituents had been urging him via email, telephone and letter to support the motion.
'Simple choice' "The only communication I have had urging me to vote against it was a telephone call from the whips' office," he told the Commons.
Foreign Secretary William Hague told MPs a referendum would "add to economic uncertainty at a dangerous and difficult time" and suggested most British people did not want to "say yes or no to everything in the EU". Anger was also directed towards Foreign Secretary William Hague, who earlier tried to quell the rebellion by calling the motion "a piece of graffiti".
Opening Monday's debate, Conservative MP David Nuttall said there were more than 40 million people of voting age in the UK who had not been consulted on the question of Europe. Later in the Commons, he said a referendum would "add to economic uncertainty at a dangerous and difficult time" and suggested most British people did not want to "say yes or no to everything in the EU".
He said the UK Parliament was becoming "ever more impotent" as the "tentacles" of the European Union "intruded into more and more areas of national life". He argued: "We want to be in Britain and run by Britain." Tory MPs accused him of going native and abandoning his Eurosceptic views.
Mr Nuttall acknowledged it was unlikely pro-referendum campaigners would win Monday's vote in the face of what he said were "strong-arm tactics" by party whips. The Lib Dems came under attack too, accused of being "charlatans" by Conservative MP Philip Davies for abandoning a manifesto pledge for an in-out referendum on the EU.
"MPs can vote to give their constituents a choice about their ongoing relationship with the EU or they can vote them to deny them that opportunity," he added. "It is as simple as that." But Lib Dem Martin Horwood insisted the party committed to an in-out referendum at the time of a fundamental shift (in Britain's relationship with the EU).
Deputy Prime Minister and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg has said it is the worst time for a debate about Britain leaving the EU as a "firestorm" engulfs the eurozone. One Lib Dem MP, Stephen Gilbert, has said he will defy his leadership over the issue. "That's why we supported an in-out referendum and proposed one in this chamber at the time of the Lisbon Treaty," he said.
Deputy Prime Minister and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg has said it is the worst time for a debate about Britain leaving the EU as a "firestorm" engulfs the eurozone.
The UK Independence Party, which campaigns for the UK to quit the EU, said the Conservatives were "tearing themselves apart" over Europe. Its leader Nigel Farage urged MPs from all parties "to vote with their conscience, ahead of their party or career".The UK Independence Party, which campaigns for the UK to quit the EU, said the Conservatives were "tearing themselves apart" over Europe. Its leader Nigel Farage urged MPs from all parties "to vote with their conscience, ahead of their party or career".
In the coalition agreement, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, a traditionally pro-European party, agreed to "ensure that the British government is a positive participant in the European Union, playing a strong and positive role with our partners".In the coalition agreement, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, a traditionally pro-European party, agreed to "ensure that the British government is a positive participant in the European Union, playing a strong and positive role with our partners".
The Commons debate on the issue was prompted after a petition was signed by more than 100,000 people.