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Leveson inquiry: Lord Grade, Lord Hunt, Sir Christopher Meyer - live Leveson inquiry: Lord Grade, Lord Hunt, Sir Christopher Meyer - live
(40 minutes later)
11.55am: Hacked Off campaigner Thais Portilho-Shrimpton has just tweeted:
#leveson I'm pleased the inquiry has contributed something with which you agree Sir Christopher [after @sirsocks praised Leveson's idea]
(@sirsocks is the name of Meyer's Twitter account.)
11.53am: Meyer says that he came to the view that the industry dominated both Pressbof and the PCC editors' code committee. He now believes that this balance was not right.
11.52am: Meyer gives the example of a footballer who died in the middle of a match and was the subject of intrusive photographs, about which a number of third-party readers complained.
The PCC did not take up the complaints because the family wanted to let the matter rest.
11.51am: Meyer is asked about third-party complaints.
He says that "first party was king" – if they did not want to proceed with a complaint the PCC would not entertain third-party complaints.
Meyer adds that third-party complaints were not ruled out by the PCC, but that they were rare.
11.47am: Jay suggests that the PCC just jurisprudence, or legal theory, build up without taking action.
Jurisprudence is "unbelievably important", Meyer says, claiming that editors believed that.
He disagrees with Jay's contention that proactive statements of principle would have been more effective than jurisprudence.
11.47am: Meyer says it is inevitable that newspapers will continue to run inaccurate headlines on occasion, but that the situation "was improving".
The PCC did endless seminars on drilling the code of conduct into journalists' working patterns, he adds.
11.43am: The inquiry has resumed and Meyer is asked about inaccurate and misleading headlines.
He says he told the industry in 2005 that the newspapers "can't go on like this" with disproportionate headlines.
"Yes, it was a concern and yes, we sought a crackdown on it," he adds.
Meyer says the industry knew "perfectly well" that the PCC was on to it over misleading headlines, even though the commission did not release a more formal guidance note.
11.35am: The inquiry is now taking a short break.
11.35am: Meyer says that the PCC thought custodial sentences for section 55 breaches of the Data Protection Act would have been "pretty chilling to freedom of expression".
"If you think Mr Dacre picked up the phone one day and says 'very helpful if you stick in the review something about section 55' – forget it. Even Jack Straw was on his side," says Meyer.
He asks Jay to "drop the amateur psychology".
11.33am: Financial Times media correspondent Ben Fenton has just tweeted:
Meyer brings finger down on bundle with audible force to say "on oath" that he was not influenced by overweening editors. #leveson
11.30am: Meyer bristles when Jay says that to push for more control over complaints would have brought the commission into conflict with powerful people.
Jay asks if there was "collusion" between the PCC and editors. Meyer says he objects to the word "collusion" as it has a "whiff of poodle or lapdog". "If you think I was sitting in their pocket, think again Mr Jay."
"God knows I had my conflicts with the editors on all kinds of things. If you think I was sitting in their pocket not daring to do things that they did not like, think again Mr Jay," Meyer says.
He adds that once a year he took national newspaper editors to lunch, but attempted to keep some distance from them.
"Institutionally, obviously the PCC had to be close to the industry," he says.
11.29am: Our colleague Lisa O'Carroll has just tweeted:
#leveson ex diplomat Meyer losing cool. 'you keep trying to put words in my mouth mr Jay.You haven't the faintest idea when they (eds) said'
11.28am: Jay asks why Meyer did not agitate for more power over the prominence of apologies.
Meyer says he was agitating over "so much else". He says it is much less of a problem than it was in 2003.
Jay describes it as a "real concern" to the public that the PCC cannot force newspapers to make prominent complaints.
"That was not what I was doing at the time. I had to make judgments," Meyer says. "We pushed and cajoled on this. Had I done another three years on this that would have been my priority."
11.26am: Meyer is asked about the PCC's role in negotiating apologies.
He concedes that editors had the final say over what prominence to give apologies, but the PCC would have "made a fuss" if the placement was "ludicrous".
11.23am: Meyer says he did not think that prior notiification was an urgent matter that needed to be addressed.
He denies that any lack of action was due to opposition from editors on the commission; he says they were a "completely disunited group".
"You had a huge variation in views among the editors. There was usually more harmony among the non-editors than there was among the editors," he says.
Pressed on this, Meyer says: "You keep putting words into my mouth, Mr Jay."
11.18am: Jay asks if the PCC considered changing its code to include a requirement for pre-notification about stories.
Meyer says it was considered but dismissed, as there might be a public interest justification reason not to notify the subjects of stories before publication.
11.13am: Meyer tells the inquiry how the PCC could have attempted to halt the publication of the News of the World's Max Mosley sting.11.13am: Meyer tells the inquiry how the PCC could have attempted to halt the publication of the News of the World's Max Mosley sting.
He says the PCC gave pre-publication advice "regularly".He says the PCC gave pre-publication advice "regularly".
"There would have been a big debate about whether the Nazi stuff affected the central argument," Meyer says."There would have been a big debate about whether the Nazi stuff affected the central argument," Meyer says.
11.12am: Meyer claims he has "stopped big stories from being published" on privacy or public interest grounds.11.12am: Meyer claims he has "stopped big stories from being published" on privacy or public interest grounds.
The PCC will always be charged with acting in the interest of the press, Meyer says, but one of tha advantages of being close to editors is "they respond in a different way".The PCC will always be charged with acting in the interest of the press, Meyer says, but one of tha advantages of being close to editors is "they respond in a different way".
11.10am: Meyer says that if Mosley had gone to the PCC before the News of the World published its story "the whole thing might have taken a different course".11.10am: Meyer says that if Mosley had gone to the PCC before the News of the World published its story "the whole thing might have taken a different course".
He says he would have urged the News of the World to reconsider its public interest argument.He says he would have urged the News of the World to reconsider its public interest argument.
11.08am: Meyer says one of his credos is that "There's a time for the law, and there's a time for the PCC."11.08am: Meyer says one of his credos is that "There's a time for the law, and there's a time for the PCC."
11.07am: Jay asks if Meyer read Mr Justice Eady's high court judgment that found in favour of Mosley.11.07am: Jay asks if Meyer read Mr Justice Eady's high court judgment that found in favour of Mosley.
"I thought he rendered a correct judgment," Meyer says, noting that that is his personal view. He says he found it hard to believe the News of the World sting was in the public interest."I thought he rendered a correct judgment," Meyer says, noting that that is his personal view. He says he found it hard to believe the News of the World sting was in the public interest.
11.05am: Meyer tells the inquiry that then Formula One boss Max Mosley was "extremely rude" about the PCC after he decided to launch a legal complaint against the News of the World rather than complain to the commission.11.05am: Meyer tells the inquiry that then Formula One boss Max Mosley was "extremely rude" about the PCC after he decided to launch a legal complaint against the News of the World rather than complain to the commission.
If he had gone to the PCC "we around the table – the commissioners – would have had a very interesting debate … and we would have found for him," he says.If he had gone to the PCC "we around the table – the commissioners – would have had a very interesting debate … and we would have found for him," he says.
11.04am: Meyer says "the fact there might have been a giant criminal conspiracy in the belly of the beast" was another matter from allegations of phone hacking at the News of the World which the PCC moved to examine.11.04am: Meyer says "the fact there might have been a giant criminal conspiracy in the belly of the beast" was another matter from allegations of phone hacking at the News of the World which the PCC moved to examine.
11.03am: Meyer says the virtue of Colin Myler at the News of the World was that he was a fresh pair of eyes who knew the industry well.11.03am: Meyer says the virtue of Colin Myler at the News of the World was that he was a fresh pair of eyes who knew the industry well.
11.01am: Jay asks about the PCC's sanctions for failing to comply with its rulings – or worse, misleading it.11.01am: Jay asks about the PCC's sanctions for failing to comply with its rulings – or worse, misleading it.
Meyer admits the PCC's articles of association do not say that an editor is in breach of its code if they do not comply with the body.Meyer admits the PCC's articles of association do not say that an editor is in breach of its code if they do not comply with the body.
10.58am: Meyer describes the PCC's 2007 report as "monumental". When Jay questions this, he accuses the QC of being "mean-spirited".10.58am: Meyer describes the PCC's 2007 report as "monumental". When Jay questions this, he accuses the QC of being "mean-spirited".
He says the police and newspapers – "God bless 'em" – uncovered more evidence of phone hacking than was known in 2006.He says the police and newspapers – "God bless 'em" – uncovered more evidence of phone hacking than was known in 2006.
10.56am: Meyer says the decision not to interview Andy Coulson, after he left the News of the World, "was exactly the right one to take … although presentationally it has made things difficult for me".10.56am: Meyer says the decision not to interview Andy Coulson, after he left the News of the World, "was exactly the right one to take … although presentationally it has made things difficult for me".
Meyer says the PCC had no powers to interview under oath, and in any case Coulson no longer worked for the paper.Meyer says the PCC had no powers to interview under oath, and in any case Coulson no longer worked for the paper.
He says it is "wholly improbable" that Coulson would have been able to tell the PCC more than Colin Myler "had been able to dig out of the system".He says it is "wholly improbable" that Coulson would have been able to tell the PCC more than Colin Myler "had been able to dig out of the system".
Coulson "would not have had anything of value to add to the reports that we published", says Meyer.Coulson "would not have had anything of value to add to the reports that we published", says Meyer.
10.52am: The PPC decided to conduct a "lessons-learned exercise" that would offer guidance and "shed a little more light" on what had gone on at the News of the World. "That's what we did and it was welcomed," Meyer adds.10.52am: The PPC decided to conduct a "lessons-learned exercise" that would offer guidance and "shed a little more light" on what had gone on at the News of the World. "That's what we did and it was welcomed," Meyer adds.
10.50am: Moving on to the PCC's 2007 inquiry, Meyer says: "I was certainly confident that the inquiry we carried out in 2007 … was fully within the articles of association."10.50am: Moving on to the PCC's 2007 inquiry, Meyer says: "I was certainly confident that the inquiry we carried out in 2007 … was fully within the articles of association."
Meyer says he was "strongly" of the view that it would not be useful for the PCC to "duplicate" the police inquiry. "At the time … it seemed pretty draconian," he says of the imprisonment of Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire.Meyer says he was "strongly" of the view that it would not be useful for the PCC to "duplicate" the police inquiry. "At the time … it seemed pretty draconian," he says of the imprisonment of Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire.
10.49am: Meyer says that when the police looked into phone hacking of the royal family in August 2006 it was not appropriate for the PCC to launch its own "parallel" inquiry.10.49am: Meyer says that when the police looked into phone hacking of the royal family in August 2006 it was not appropriate for the PCC to launch its own "parallel" inquiry.
He adds that the PCC could make statements but no more.He adds that the PCC could make statements but no more.
10.46am: Meyer is asked about his proposals for future press regulation.10.46am: Meyer is asked about his proposals for future press regulation.
He says that in six appearances on Question Time he never got any questions about the press – and he expected some hostility. Leveson interjects to say that: "Maybe they didn't know what it [the PCC] was."He says that in six appearances on Question Time he never got any questions about the press – and he expected some hostility. Leveson interjects to say that: "Maybe they didn't know what it [the PCC] was."
Only the Advertising Standards Authority was better known than the PCC, Meyer says.Only the Advertising Standards Authority was better known than the PCC, Meyer says.
10.45am: Media Standards trust senior editor Gavin Freeguard has just tweeted:10.45am: Media Standards trust senior editor Gavin Freeguard has just tweeted:
Our Ipsos MORI poll, Jan 10: 61% 'v appropriate', 25% 'fairly appropriate' to fine papers in serious cases p46 http://bit.ly/qlCvaw #LevesonOur Ipsos MORI poll, Jan 10: 61% 'v appropriate', 25% 'fairly appropriate' to fine papers in serious cases p46 http://bit.ly/qlCvaw #Leveson
10.42am: As an example that newspapers take notice of adjudications, Meyer says that the Guardian threatened to leave the PCC in 2003 after the body ruled against the newspaper paying a prisoner for a book serialisation.10.42am: As an example that newspapers take notice of adjudications, Meyer says that the Guardian threatened to leave the PCC in 2003 after the body ruled against the newspaper paying a prisoner for a book serialisation.
10.41am: Editors did not like having to admit in their own newspapers that they had "screwed up", Meyer tells the inquiry.10.41am: Editors did not like having to admit in their own newspapers that they had "screwed up", Meyer tells the inquiry.
10.39am: Jay suggests that the public want the PCC to have more teeth, but Meyer does not agree.10.39am: Jay suggests that the public want the PCC to have more teeth, but Meyer does not agree.
He says that his view is backed up by polls of the public in which they said they would prefer a "fast free and fair" system to getting bogged down.He says that his view is backed up by polls of the public in which they said they would prefer a "fast free and fair" system to getting bogged down.
Leveson suggests that this was not a very fair poll question.Leveson suggests that this was not a very fair poll question.
10.35am: Meyer admits he was "going out on a limb" in the speech when he said he was firmly opposed to fines for newspapers.10.35am: Meyer admits he was "going out on a limb" in the speech when he said he was firmly opposed to fines for newspapers.
He says he is still opposed to the PCC having the ability to fine – in contrast to what the serving director of the PCC, Stephen Abell, told the inquiry yesterday.He says he is still opposed to the PCC having the ability to fine – in contrast to what the serving director of the PCC, Stephen Abell, told the inquiry yesterday.
Meyer said in his speech that editors fear the blemish of having a negative PCC adjudication on their career.Meyer said in his speech that editors fear the blemish of having a negative PCC adjudication on their career.
10.32am: Meyer denies the claim that he was "out on a limb" when he said in the 2003 speech that the PCC was functioning well.10.32am: Meyer denies the claim that he was "out on a limb" when he said in the 2003 speech that the PCC was functioning well.
"I had some quite significant changes to make," he says of the PCC. Meyer says he wanted the changes to face as little political resistance as possible."I had some quite significant changes to make," he says of the PCC. Meyer says he wanted the changes to face as little political resistance as possible.
10.31am: Meyer says in the six years of his chairmanship he agonised over what the PCC's regulation should be called.10.31am: Meyer says in the six years of his chairmanship he agonised over what the PCC's regulation should be called.
"Self-regulation" did not capture it, he says, because it was the "lay majority" of the commission that sat in judgment of journalism – not journalists."Self-regulation" did not capture it, he says, because it was the "lay majority" of the commission that sat in judgment of journalism – not journalists.
10.27am: Meyer is asked about his speech in 2003 on the "permanent evolution" of the press. He had been chairman of the PCC for just a matter of weeks.10.27am: Meyer is asked about his speech in 2003 on the "permanent evolution" of the press. He had been chairman of the PCC for just a matter of weeks.
"Mr Jay, I do not believe in hanging around," he says."Mr Jay, I do not believe in hanging around," he says.
10.24am: Meyer says he felt "the tremor in the land" when the Labour government enacted legislation to attempt to deal with terrorism.10.24am: Meyer says he felt "the tremor in the land" when the Labour government enacted legislation to attempt to deal with terrorism.
"On the matter of the press of course it has to be regulated …. I'm not saying it should be free to roar around," he says, adding: "Actually today the press is quite closely hemmed in … by statute and by the code of practice.""On the matter of the press of course it has to be regulated …. I'm not saying it should be free to roar around," he says, adding: "Actually today the press is quite closely hemmed in … by statute and by the code of practice."
10.17am: Once you allow the state into the area of press regulation, you are "standing on the top of a slippery slope", Meyer tells Leveson.10.17am: Once you allow the state into the area of press regulation, you are "standing on the top of a slippery slope", Meyer tells Leveson.
He says that politics change and a "less permissive, less liberal state" might try take advantage of existing legislation "to do things which might be offensive to freedom of expression".He says that politics change and a "less permissive, less liberal state" might try take advantage of existing legislation "to do things which might be offensive to freedom of expression".
10.15am: Meyer says he is "very firmly of the view that you do not go down the road of statute".10.15am: Meyer says he is "very firmly of the view that you do not go down the road of statute".
10.14am: Meyer describes the PCC as a "public service" for the "99%" of complainants who are not celebrities.10.14am: Meyer describes the PCC as a "public service" for the "99%" of complainants who are not celebrities.
The strongest shot for an editor was a "negative adjudication published prominently", Meyer says.The strongest shot for an editor was a "negative adjudication published prominently", Meyer says.
He adds that the ultimate sanction would have been to write a letter to an editor, but that situation never arose under his chairmanship.He adds that the ultimate sanction would have been to write a letter to an editor, but that situation never arose under his chairmanship.
10.12am: Meyer says he believes "very firmly" that the PCC is a regulator – "it is regulation unlike anything else".10.12am: Meyer says he believes "very firmly" that the PCC is a regulator – "it is regulation unlike anything else".
"As you develop a jurisprudence to the application of the code of practice, judgments and rulings, you are actually telling journalists what they can do and what they can't do. In my book, that is a form of regulation," Meyer says."As you develop a jurisprudence to the application of the code of practice, judgments and rulings, you are actually telling journalists what they can do and what they can't do. In my book, that is a form of regulation," Meyer says.
"Fair enough," quips Jay."Fair enough," quips Jay.
10.11am: Meyer was interviewed by the Press Standards Board of Finance (Pressbof) for the role of PCC chairman in 2003, he says.10.11am: Meyer was interviewed by the Press Standards Board of Finance (Pressbof) for the role of PCC chairman in 2003, he says.
He adds that he is a "strong believer of freedom of the press … even though I had been wrestling with journalists" in his previous incarnation as a UK ambassador.He adds that he is a "strong believer of freedom of the press … even though I had been wrestling with journalists" in his previous incarnation as a UK ambassador.
10.06am: Sir Christopher Meyer is the first witness of the day. He was chairman of the PCC from 2003 to 2009.10.06am: Sir Christopher Meyer is the first witness of the day. He was chairman of the PCC from 2003 to 2009.
Meyer is being questioned by Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry.Meyer is being questioned by Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry.
9.47am: Good morning and welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.9.47am: Good morning and welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.
The inquiry continues with its turn of senior Press Complaints Commission (PCC) figures, hearing evidence from veteran media executive Lord Grade, former PCC chairman Sir Christopher Meyer, and the recently-installed PCC chairman, Lord Hunt.The inquiry continues with its turn of senior Press Complaints Commission (PCC) figures, hearing evidence from veteran media executive Lord Grade, former PCC chairman Sir Christopher Meyer, and the recently-installed PCC chairman, Lord Hunt.
Hunt was appointed new chairman of the PCC in October last year, following the departure of Baroness Buscombe. In only his second outing since taking the role, Hunt is likely to be pressed on his own proposals for a radical shakeup of press regulation.Hunt was appointed new chairman of the PCC in October last year, following the departure of Baroness Buscombe. In only his second outing since taking the role, Hunt is likely to be pressed on his own proposals for a radical shakeup of press regulation.
The inquiry will hear from Meyer, chairman of the PCC between 2003 and 2009 – spanning the period when the first signs of widespread illicit newsgathering methods were uncovered. Meyer is likely to be asked about his meetings with former information commissioner, Richard Thomas, who raised concerns about the use of private investigators by newspapers in 2003.The inquiry will hear from Meyer, chairman of the PCC between 2003 and 2009 – spanning the period when the first signs of widespread illicit newsgathering methods were uncovered. Meyer is likely to be asked about his meetings with former information commissioner, Richard Thomas, who raised concerns about the use of private investigators by newspapers in 2003.
Please note that comments are switched off for legal reasons.Please note that comments are switched off for legal reasons.