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Leveson inquiry: Bernard Hogan-Howe, Chris Sims - live Leveson inquiry: Bernard Hogan-Howe, Chris Sims - live
(40 minutes later)
12.51pm: Pettifor says he has never received a tip-off about a celebrity by a police officer.
12.47pm: Pettifor says non-attributable conversations with police are an important part of a journalist's drive to get to the heart of a story.
12.46pm: Pettifor says official briefings and monthly meetings with the commissioner remain, but informal contact with officers "is more difficult now".
He adds that he speaks to Scotland Yard "twice a day on average" and to senior investigating officers "twice to five times a week".
Scotland Yard's press office is not proactive and will phone "very rarely" with a story, he says.
12.39pm: Tom Pettifor from the Daily Mirror is now taking the stand. He has been crime reporter on the paper since May of last year.
12.35pm: Penrose says journalists "are being treated almost like criminals" by police who are now afraid to talk to the press.
Leveson takes exception to this and says he is taking Hogan-Howe's comment about not fraternising with journalists "entirely out of context".
12.31pm: Penrose says he nearly "laughed out loud" when he heard allegations made at the inquiry yesterday that the Sunday Mirror had a surveillance operation in Ipswich during the hunt for the "Suffolk Strangler" in 2006.
"Without being flippant I almost laughed out loud when I heard that comment," he says.
Barr shows the inquiry a copy of an article from 2006 containing an interview with supermarket worker Tom Stephens by Sunday Mirror reporter, Michael Duffy.
Dave Harrison, the police investigator, who had suspects under surveillance, suggested to Leveson yesterday he had been bundled into a car and taken to a hotel for this interview.
Penrose says that the interview happened in a car park and the Sunday Mirror tracked him down the usual way through electoral searches, not by a professional surveillance team.
12.25pm: Penrose says sharing a drink with a police office is about building trust not about "shady" leaking.
He considers about a "dozen or so" of his contacts have become friends.
12.23pm: Penrose says a story about Doreen Lawrence and Duwayne Brooks was held back by the Sunday Mirror after a Met request. He adds that journalists will do this if they are told publishing a story would have an impact on operations.
12.19pm: The Met is "honest and open" if approached about a story that does not show it in good light, but whether it is "proactive about it is another matter", says Penrose.12.19pm: The Met is "honest and open" if approached about a story that does not show it in good light, but whether it is "proactive about it is another matter", says Penrose.
12.18pm: Yates gave Penrose his mobile phone number.12.18pm: Yates gave Penrose his mobile phone number.
Barr asks if that was unusual, to which Penrose replies: "Wouldn't have thought so."Barr asks if that was unusual, to which Penrose replies: "Wouldn't have thought so."
12.15pm: Barr begins a lunch-by-lunch analysis of Penrose's relationship with senior police officers.12.15pm: Barr begins a lunch-by-lunch analysis of Penrose's relationship with senior police officers.
Two lunches are recoded with John Yates and Andy Hayman, the former assistant commissioners.Two lunches are recoded with John Yates and Andy Hayman, the former assistant commissioners.
Penrose says those lunches were at a time of "heightened fear of terror" and were "largely to give context and overview" of the situation.Penrose says those lunches were at a time of "heightened fear of terror" and were "largely to give context and overview" of the situation.
He cannot remember the specific content of either lunch but says there was nothing extraordinary revealed.He cannot remember the specific content of either lunch but says there was nothing extraordinary revealed.
Dick Fedorcio, the Met's director of public affairs, met him for lunch once at Shepherds. Again, Penrose says he doesn't believe he received any signficant information and the lunch was more about relationship building.Dick Fedorcio, the Met's director of public affairs, met him for lunch once at Shepherds. Again, Penrose says he doesn't believe he received any signficant information and the lunch was more about relationship building.
12.09pm: Penrose says the relationship between the police and the press can lead to criminals being apprehended.12.09pm: Penrose says the relationship between the police and the press can lead to criminals being apprehended.
He says an article last November led to 21/7 terrorist Siraj Ali being put back behind bars after the Sunday Mirror handed video footage of him smoking drugs while in a bail hostel, in breach of his licence conditions.He says an article last November led to 21/7 terrorist Siraj Ali being put back behind bars after the Sunday Mirror handed video footage of him smoking drugs while in a bail hostel, in breach of his licence conditions.
11.59am: Penrose says there is a "state of paralysis" in police-press relations; officers are less forthcoming and "more unwilling to talk to the press".11.59am: Penrose says there is a "state of paralysis" in police-press relations; officers are less forthcoming and "more unwilling to talk to the press".
11.58am: Justin Penrose of the Sunday Mirror takes the stand.11.58am: Justin Penrose of the Sunday Mirror takes the stand.
David Barr, consel to the inquiry, is doing the questioning.David Barr, consel to the inquiry, is doing the questioning.
11.58am: Hogan-Howe has now finished his evidence.11.58am: Hogan-Howe has now finished his evidence.
11.57am: Hogan-Howe finishes by reiterating the importance of a good relationship with journalists11.57am: Hogan-Howe finishes by reiterating the importance of a good relationship with journalists
"I do want a good open challenging relationship with the press," he adds."I do want a good open challenging relationship with the press," he adds.
11.53am: The 53,000 staff at the Met police have just been given permission to access the internet at work, reveals Hogan-Howe.11.53am: The 53,000 staff at the Met police have just been given permission to access the internet at work, reveals Hogan-Howe.
Up to now the policy was that only police officers who had a business justifiable reason to access the net could go on the web.Up to now the policy was that only police officers who had a business justifiable reason to access the net could go on the web.
Given that the police are employed to maintain law and order, Hogan Howe overturned the ban on the grounds there was little chance it could be abused.Given that the police are employed to maintain law and order, Hogan Howe overturned the ban on the grounds there was little chance it could be abused.
He adds that all boroughs are now being encouraged to use social media, and the Met needs to get involved in Twitter.He adds that all boroughs are now being encouraged to use social media, and the Met needs to get involved in Twitter.
11.37am: Hogan-Howe is asked about leaks from the Police National Computer and Operation Motorman, which exposed the trade of private confidential data including criminal records.11.37am: Hogan-Howe is asked about leaks from the Police National Computer and Operation Motorman, which exposed the trade of private confidential data including criminal records.
He says it is "unfortunate" that no one was prosecuted, but the police have investigated internal leaks.He says it is "unfortunate" that no one was prosecuted, but the police have investigated internal leaks.
I think that's unfortunate, the police service can show it's taken these allegations seriously. It has been explained that 200 people [were involved potentially] there has been an internal inquiry...I think that's unfortunate, the police service can show it's taken these allegations seriously. It has been explained that 200 people [were involved potentially] there has been an internal inquiry...
It is hard to imagine that so many people in the police are leaking this information; they must be leaking it to someone; not sure what proportion of their leaks are related to domestic issues, or links to payment for some inappropriate intention.It is hard to imagine that so many people in the police are leaking this information; they must be leaking it to someone; not sure what proportion of their leaks are related to domestic issues, or links to payment for some inappropriate intention.
11.31am: Celebrities have as much right to privacy as members of the community, says Hogan-Howe.11.31am: Celebrities have as much right to privacy as members of the community, says Hogan-Howe.
I feel strongly that the police are expected to keep secrets …I feel strongly that the police are expected to keep secrets …
Whether people be famous, or a member of public, they expect us to maintain that privacy.Whether people be famous, or a member of public, they expect us to maintain that privacy.
I don't care whether you are famous or a member of community, you have the same expectations of privacy … we the police certainly should not be promoting to the press a victim of crime for the only reason they are famous.I don't care whether you are famous or a member of community, you have the same expectations of privacy … we the police certainly should not be promoting to the press a victim of crime for the only reason they are famous.
11.30am: Hogan-Howe says it would be "barmy" to investigate every leak from the Met, but the serious ones should always be investigated.11.30am: Hogan-Howe says it would be "barmy" to investigate every leak from the Met, but the serious ones should always be investigated.
Jay suggests that no amount of recording of contacts with the press would stop the type of serious leaks that Hogan-Howe is referring to.Jay suggests that no amount of recording of contacts with the press would stop the type of serious leaks that Hogan-Howe is referring to.
11.21am: The inquiry is shown two appendices from Hogan Howe's statement re gifts and hospitality.11.21am: The inquiry is shown two appendices from Hogan Howe's statement re gifts and hospitality.
Gifts and hospitality which can be accepted
1. Cups of tea
2. Working lunches and dinners which form part of meetings, training and events where attendance is in the interest of the MPS		Gifts and hospitality which can be accepted
1. Cups of tea
2. Working lunches and dinners which form part of meetings, training and events where attendance is in the interest of the MPS
Gifts and hospitality which should never be accepted
1. Financial payment resulting in an article being published
2. Repeated acceptance of gifts and hospitality from the same organisation even when value of the gift on each occasion is less than £25
3. Gifts from outside contractors		Gifts and hospitality which should never be accepted
1. Financial payment resulting in an article being published
2. Repeated acceptance of gifts and hospitality from the same organisation even when value of the gift on each occasion is less than £25
3. Gifts from outside contractors
11.13am: On to the "F word": football. Jay asks if match invites are permissible under the Met's hospitality rules.11.13am: On to the "F word": football. Jay asks if match invites are permissible under the Met's hospitality rules.
Hogan-Howe says the Met tries to encourage people to be as open as possible, but says police should not accept gifts or other services that would influence them or compromise judgment.Hogan-Howe says the Met tries to encourage people to be as open as possible, but says police should not accept gifts or other services that would influence them or compromise judgment.
If they are invited to an event when they are off duty and that offer is linked to someone, for example, who is bidding for a contract, that would be off limits.If they are invited to an event when they are off duty and that offer is linked to someone, for example, who is bidding for a contract, that would be off limits.
Earlier this year the inquiry, the ex-head of counter-terrorism, John Yates, denied being influenced by NoW executive editor Neil Wallis, with whom he had meals and watched football.Earlier this year the inquiry, the ex-head of counter-terrorism, John Yates, denied being influenced by NoW executive editor Neil Wallis, with whom he had meals and watched football.
11.01am: Now, back to the "A word": alcohol. Hogan-Howe makes it clear, for the second time, he does not believe sustained contact over drink is advisable.11.01am: Now, back to the "A word": alcohol. Hogan-Howe makes it clear, for the second time, he does not believe sustained contact over drink is advisable.
If there is a professional need to meet, it's not clear it needs to be over a meal and if there is alcohol involved, someone's judgment may be clouded …If there is a professional need to meet, it's not clear it needs to be over a meal and if there is alcohol involved, someone's judgment may be clouded …
When alcohol comes in, there are less inhibitions. There is a reason why alcohol is an important factor … it's probably best avoided.When alcohol comes in, there are less inhibitions. There is a reason why alcohol is an important factor … it's probably best avoided.
However, he doesn't want to bar "an occasional meeting with a fellow professional". He says, for instance, it would not be "sensible" if an officer found themselves sitting next to an editor at a function, to then walk off and sit somewhere else.However, he doesn't want to bar "an occasional meeting with a fellow professional". He says, for instance, it would not be "sensible" if an officer found themselves sitting next to an editor at a function, to then walk off and sit somewhere else.
10.57am: Hogan-Howe says when he was parachuted in to take charge of the Met last July, he arrived with three values: "humility; integrity and transparency".10.57am: Hogan-Howe says when he was parachuted in to take charge of the Met last July, he arrived with three values: "humility; integrity and transparency".
10.53am: Hogan-Howe says he broadly accepts Elizabeth Filkin's report but he doesn't see why some journalists have found her findings, particularly those about "flirting" or drinking with reporters, patronising or condescending.10.53am: Hogan-Howe says he broadly accepts Elizabeth Filkin's report but he doesn't see why some journalists have found her findings, particularly those about "flirting" or drinking with reporters, patronising or condescending.
"I didn't take it that way and encouraged people to think in a different way about something that had become a problem," he adds."I didn't take it that way and encouraged people to think in a different way about something that had become a problem," he adds.
10.47am: Hogan-Howe says proposals to force officers to record meetings with journalists are part of an effort to increase transparency, not to close down communications with the press.10.47am: Hogan-Howe says proposals to force officers to record meetings with journalists are part of an effort to increase transparency, not to close down communications with the press.
He adds that it would not stop whistleblowing; not involve any bureaucratic form filling or transcripts of conversations, but would aid police examine any potential for bias if there were more meetings with one newspaper group than another.He adds that it would not stop whistleblowing; not involve any bureaucratic form filling or transcripts of conversations, but would aid police examine any potential for bias if there were more meetings with one newspaper group than another.
"I'm not too disappointed that tittle tattle has stopped," he says."I'm not too disappointed that tittle tattle has stopped," he says.
10.41am: The name of a suspect in the Jones case was written on a wall near the spot where he was killed but the police still did not name him.10.41am: The name of a suspect in the Jones case was written on a wall near the spot where he was killed but the police still did not name him.
"Suspicions don't always materialise into charges and charges don't always materialise into convictions," says Hogan-Howe."Suspicions don't always materialise into charges and charges don't always materialise into convictions," says Hogan-Howe.
10.39am: Hogan-Howe says there should be no naming of suspects by the police or press. Often the names are wrong and it can limit a court case later.10.39am: Hogan-Howe says there should be no naming of suspects by the police or press. Often the names are wrong and it can limit a court case later.
The only caveat would be if someone "is dangerous or on the run" and would case risk to life if not apprehended.The only caveat would be if someone "is dangerous or on the run" and would case risk to life if not apprehended.
10.35am: Hogan-Howe says the public should be informed about what their police service is doing on their behalf.10.35am: Hogan-Howe says the public should be informed about what their police service is doing on their behalf.
The interest of the press may be "challenging", but he cites two major murder investigations during his time as head of Merseyside when it was critical to bring the offenders in.The interest of the press may be "challenging", but he cites two major murder investigations during his time as head of Merseyside when it was critical to bring the offenders in.
First, the killing of Rhys Jones, the-11 year-old boy shot death in Croxteth, where "the public interest caused more witnesses to come forward. Secondly, the coverage and "furore and anger" that followed the racist murder of Anthony Walker "enabled a lot of people to help us".First, the killing of Rhys Jones, the-11 year-old boy shot death in Croxteth, where "the public interest caused more witnesses to come forward. Secondly, the coverage and "furore and anger" that followed the racist murder of Anthony Walker "enabled a lot of people to help us".
10.31am: Hogan-Howe says a perception of a bias towards News International puts the Met in a difficult position, particularly the suggestion that a relationship may have "influenced in some way" the decision not to continue the phone-hacking investigation.10.31am: Hogan-Howe says a perception of a bias towards News International puts the Met in a difficult position, particularly the suggestion that a relationship may have "influenced in some way" the decision not to continue the phone-hacking investigation.
The perception might be "rebuttable" but it "leaves a police officer in a difficult position" if they have to explain that relationship "before they explain why they did or didn't do something". People can "accept human error", Hogan Howe adds.The perception might be "rebuttable" but it "leaves a police officer in a difficult position" if they have to explain that relationship "before they explain why they did or didn't do something". People can "accept human error", Hogan Howe adds.
10.29am: Sustained contact with journalists over drinks can damage a police officer's integrity, but Hogan-Howe is not opposed to the odd drink.10.29am: Sustained contact with journalists over drinks can damage a police officer's integrity, but Hogan-Howe is not opposed to the odd drink.
A drink, so what? for me it's the pattern … one drink, one coffee, one meal, I'm not sure if that's going to damage integrity but I think sustained contact can.A drink, so what? for me it's the pattern … one drink, one coffee, one meal, I'm not sure if that's going to damage integrity but I think sustained contact can.
10.28am: Hogan-Howe says that over the past few years, press interest has often focused too much on individuals within the Met rather than public interest issues.10.28am: Hogan-Howe says that over the past few years, press interest has often focused too much on individuals within the Met rather than public interest issues.
"Adult conversations" with reporters who want to challenge police policy or operations are to be welcomed, he adds. "There is a great benefit in being challenged by journalists.""Adult conversations" with reporters who want to challenge police policy or operations are to be welcomed, he adds. "There is a great benefit in being challenged by journalists."
10.17am: Journalists have described the relationship with the Met as more "austere", says Hogan-Howe, but he stresses it is still holding press conferences and encouraging local officers to talk to the press.10.17am: Journalists have described the relationship with the Met as more "austere", says Hogan-Howe, but he stresses it is still holding press conferences and encouraging local officers to talk to the press.
"I would genuinely like to understand why they say that ... I have not yet understood which aspect of our relationship is causing the damage," he adds."I would genuinely like to understand why they say that ... I have not yet understood which aspect of our relationship is causing the damage," he adds.
10.11am: Hogan-Howe says he has continued meetings with the Crime Reporters' Association, but there have been concerns over how the relationship will work.10.11am: Hogan-Howe says he has continued meetings with the Crime Reporters' Association, but there have been concerns over how the relationship will work.
He says the the lunches with senior police officers after monthly CRA briefings no longer take place. Last year, the CRA held its Christmas drinks as usual in a pub, and the Met decided to attend only for a short time.He says the the lunches with senior police officers after monthly CRA briefings no longer take place. Last year, the CRA held its Christmas drinks as usual in a pub, and the Met decided to attend only for a short time.
We try to maintain some normality to the relationship … but it's been a difficult line to draw, given we do to maintain professional relationship but neither do we want to be too close.We try to maintain some normality to the relationship … but it's been a difficult line to draw, given we do to maintain professional relationship but neither do we want to be too close.
10.09am: In his witness statement, Hogan-Howe describes the relationship as "distorted".10.09am: In his witness statement, Hogan-Howe describes the relationship as "distorted".
10.07am: Hogan-Howe says he picked up concerns about an overly "close social relationship" between officers and the press. He says the frequency and extent of meetings was a surprise.10.07am: Hogan-Howe says he picked up concerns about an overly "close social relationship" between officers and the press. He says the frequency and extent of meetings was a surprise.
10.05am: Hogan-Howe says when he rejoined the Met in 2011 the force's relations with the press were "unstable" due to the departures of Sir Paul Stephenson and John Yates, and the phone-hacking investigation.10.05am: Hogan-Howe says when he rejoined the Met in 2011 the force's relations with the press were "unstable" due to the departures of Sir Paul Stephenson and John Yates, and the phone-hacking investigation.
10.03am: The inquiry has begun and Met commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe takes the stand.10.03am: The inquiry has begun and Met commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe takes the stand.
He is being questioned by Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry.He is being questioned by Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry.
9.57am: Welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.9.57am: Welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.
Today will be dominated by the testimonies of the heads of the two largest police forces in the country – the Met police in London and the West Midlands police in Birmingham. Between them, they are in charge of more than 70,000 staff.Today will be dominated by the testimonies of the heads of the two largest police forces in the country – the Met police in London and the West Midlands police in Birmingham. Between them, they are in charge of more than 70,000 staff.
Bernard Hogan-Howe, a former Merseyside police chief, was parachuted into the Met in London last July after the resignation of Sir John Stephenson in the wake of the phone hacking scandal while Chris Sims, chief constable of West Midlands police, has been in charge in Birmingham since 2009.Bernard Hogan-Howe, a former Merseyside police chief, was parachuted into the Met in London last July after the resignation of Sir John Stephenson in the wake of the phone hacking scandal while Chris Sims, chief constable of West Midlands police, has been in charge in Birmingham since 2009.
Hogan-Howe was Merseyside chief between 2004 and 2009 where he was associated with reducing the number of gang crimes and anti-social behaviour.Hogan-Howe was Merseyside chief between 2004 and 2009 where he was associated with reducing the number of gang crimes and anti-social behaviour.
Expect questions about his experience in Merseyside. Leveson was born and educated in Liverpool and the force was cited last week by the Guardian's crime correspondent as one of the most helpful in the country.Expect questions about his experience in Merseyside. Leveson was born and educated in Liverpool and the force was cited last week by the Guardian's crime correspondent as one of the most helpful in the country.
The West Midlands police is the country's second largest metropolitan force in the country with 12,000 staff.The West Midlands police is the country's second largest metropolitan force in the country with 12,000 staff.
Sims will be the last to give evidence and will be preceded by his head of press, who is also a chief inspector.Sims will be the last to give evidence and will be preceded by his head of press, who is also a chief inspector.
Four journalists will also testify: Adrian Faber from the Birmingham Express and Star; Tim Gordon from the South Wales Echo; Justin Penrose from the Sunday Mirror; and Tom Pettifor from the Daily Mirror.Four journalists will also testify: Adrian Faber from the Birmingham Express and Star; Tim Gordon from the South Wales Echo; Justin Penrose from the Sunday Mirror; and Tom Pettifor from the Daily Mirror.
Please note that comments have been switched off for legal reasons.Please note that comments have been switched off for legal reasons.