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New York lawmakers propose bill to ban anonymous online speech New York lawmakers propose bill to ban anonymous online speech
(about 1 hour later)
Online commenters aren't exactly known for their kind words, but lawmakers in New York want to hold their constituents to a higher standard. A few Empire State lawmakers want to address that problem by doing away with anonymous commenting.Online commenters aren't exactly known for their kind words, but lawmakers in New York want to hold their constituents to a higher standard. A few Empire State lawmakers want to address that problem by doing away with anonymous commenting.
Identical bills in the senate and assembly require anonymous posts to be deleted by administrators of New York-based websites, including "social networks, blog forums, message boards, or any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages." Identical bills in the senate and assembly require anonymous posts to be deleted by administrators of New York-based websites, including "social networks, blog forums, message boards, or any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages." 
The proposal has the tech and legal communities reeling – if not outright giggling.The proposal has the tech and legal communities reeling – if not outright giggling.
"There are lots of good reasons to ban anonymous comments, and also a lot of good reasons to have anonymous comments, and the state assembly weighing on the issue is strange and slightly ridiculous, slightly goofy," Tim Wu, a professor at Columbia law school, told the Guardian."There are lots of good reasons to ban anonymous comments, and also a lot of good reasons to have anonymous comments, and the state assembly weighing on the issue is strange and slightly ridiculous, slightly goofy," Tim Wu, a professor at Columbia law school, told the Guardian.
"It is hard to imagine the value of a law that would, for example, make Columbia's course evaluation illegal. Not to mention it's an obvious first amendment violation.""It is hard to imagine the value of a law that would, for example, make Columbia's course evaluation illegal. Not to mention it's an obvious first amendment violation."
If the bills pass, website administrators would be required to provide a contact number or email address for people to request anonymous comment removals. Upon receiving a complaint, the website would then be required to contact the original commenter and give them a 48-hour window to identify their posts.If the bills pass, website administrators would be required to provide a contact number or email address for people to request anonymous comment removals. Upon receiving a complaint, the website would then be required to contact the original commenter and give them a 48-hour window to identify their posts.
If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment. If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment. 
Assemblyman Jim Conte, who co-sponsored the bill, says the bill is meant to combat cyber-bullying. Conte wrote: Assemblyman Jim Conte, who co-sponsored the bill, says the bill is meant to combat cyber-bullying. Conte wrote: 
With more and more people relying on social media and the internet to communicate and gather information, it is imperative that the legislature put into place some type of safeguard to prevent people from using the Internet's cloak of anonymity to bully our children and make false accusations against local businesses and elected officials.With more and more people relying on social media and the internet to communicate and gather information, it is imperative that the legislature put into place some type of safeguard to prevent people from using the Internet's cloak of anonymity to bully our children and make false accusations against local businesses and elected officials.
A variety of cases prosecuting anonymous commenters have arisen in the past few years, but this seems to be the first piece of statewide legislation. A variety of cases prosecuting anonymous commenters have arisen in the past few years, but this seems to be the first piece of statewide legislation. 
In April, a Texas couple won a $13.8m defamation lawsuit against anonymous commenters who accused the couple of being sexual deviants, molesters and drug dealers on Topix, a local forum website. The offending commenters were discovered when Topix disclosed the commenters information, including IP addresses.In April, a Texas couple won a $13.8m defamation lawsuit against anonymous commenters who accused the couple of being sexual deviants, molesters and drug dealers on Topix, a local forum website. The offending commenters were discovered when Topix disclosed the commenters information, including IP addresses.
Federal prosecutor Sal Perricone resigned after a justice department investigation revealed that he posted over 600 anonymous comments on a New Orleans news site. Perricone was identified after one of his targets hired a linguist to analyze the comments.Federal prosecutor Sal Perricone resigned after a justice department investigation revealed that he posted over 600 anonymous comments on a New Orleans news site. Perricone was identified after one of his targets hired a linguist to analyze the comments.
Last year, the Indianapolis Star argued that shield laws, used to protect journalists, should also apply to the anonymous commenters on their site. The court rejected this argument, but did say in other cases, commenters could be considered sources, and therefore be protected by shield laws. They also adopted the Dendrite rule, which gives the commenters an opportunity to respond and demand a significant amount of evidence to prove the comments are illegal.Last year, the Indianapolis Star argued that shield laws, used to protect journalists, should also apply to the anonymous commenters on their site. The court rejected this argument, but did say in other cases, commenters could be considered sources, and therefore be protected by shield laws. They also adopted the Dendrite rule, which gives the commenters an opportunity to respond and demand a significant amount of evidence to prove the comments are illegal.
Unlike these cases, New York's legislation places the responsibility on the website owners. Though, as David Kravets of Wired notes, "Oddly, the bill has no identification requirement for those who request the takedown of anonymous content."Unlike these cases, New York's legislation places the responsibility on the website owners. Though, as David Kravets of Wired notes, "Oddly, the bill has no identification requirement for those who request the takedown of anonymous content."
CommentsComments
26 comments, displaying first26 comments, displaying first
23 May 2012 10:41PM23 May 2012 10:41PM
These people have too much time on their hands. I guess New York has no other, more pressing, issues to deal with.These people have too much time on their hands. I guess New York has no other, more pressing, issues to deal with.
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23 May 2012 10:48PM23 May 2012 10:48PM
[THIS COMMENT REDACTED][THIS COMMENT REDACTED]
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23 May 2012 11:32PM23 May 2012 11:32PM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
23 May 2012 11:32PM23 May 2012 11:32PM
They started identifying people who had signed political petitions, along with their addresses, and people began to get death threats from those who opposed their views or positions. You can kill anything dead simply by letting any fool have the means to retaliate at will for having to put with something he doesn't like. Please note that even here at the ever-enlightened Guardian there are those who propose boycotts and punishment for heretics who stray from the approved party line.They started identifying people who had signed political petitions, along with their addresses, and people began to get death threats from those who opposed their views or positions. You can kill anything dead simply by letting any fool have the means to retaliate at will for having to put with something he doesn't like. Please note that even here at the ever-enlightened Guardian there are those who propose boycotts and punishment for heretics who stray from the approved party line.
Link to this comment:Link to this comment:
24 May 2012 12:02AM24 May 2012 12:02AM
Well, if this law passes, websites could easily be relocated to, say, Canada.Well, if this law passes, websites could easily be relocated to, say, Canada.
Link to this comment:Link to this comment:
24 May 2012 1:30AM24 May 2012 1:30AM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
24 May 2012 1:41AM24 May 2012 1:41AM
actually communist states, no matter where in the world they are located, cannot handle factual criticism. just look at how Obozo has treated people who give money to organizations that don't agree with his communist programs. New York is not unique in it's wish to muzzle dissent, California has tried this and failed. we just have to keep eliminating these people from public office and watch our backs.actually communist states, no matter where in the world they are located, cannot handle factual criticism. just look at how Obozo has treated people who give money to organizations that don't agree with his communist programs. New York is not unique in it's wish to muzzle dissent, California has tried this and failed. we just have to keep eliminating these people from public office and watch our backs.
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24 May 2012 3:05AM24 May 2012 3:05AM
There are already tools available to defeat censorship of this kind, though one hopes that the supreme court is still capable of reading the plain text of the first amendment to the US constitution.There are already tools available to defeat censorship of this kind, though one hopes that the supreme court is still capable of reading the plain text of the first amendment to the US constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)
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24 May 2012 3:09AM24 May 2012 3:09AM
I don't see much worry here, it will quickly die either before becoming law or rapidly after from a federal court.I don't see much worry here, it will quickly die either before becoming law or rapidly after from a federal court.
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24 May 2012 3:13AM24 May 2012 3:13AM
I am writing Chapter blogs on the Ladies' Home Journal website titled "Up Against the Wall Street Banker" when a cyberstalking couple, (Sockpuppets is what they are called - an online identity used for purposes of deception) began to say threatening and defamatory things about me. Of course, their identity was clear to me and the threatening language of the Comments by the Sockpuppet couple became more severe, such as one that said "my goal was to keep pounding away at her (Ellen Oxman, the author). These Sockpuppets went back and forth for weeks.They lied about events that never happened, etc., all to ruin my reputation, to discredit me. I reported them to the Federal authorities and my local police, etc.. Of course, on my private e mail, I was contacted by them and when I did not wish to be in touch (they were who I suspected) their abusive comments escalated. Many were deleted, but I did capture them first. They were trying to prevent me, ironically, from writing under my real name, depriving me of my 1st Amendment Rights. I then wrote a chapter about it on "Up Against the Wall Street Banker - Chapter vs. Comments". It was the only way I saw to stand my ground. The stress caused by sockpuppets commenters is not to be underestimated. Also, I live in New York.
It is a thorny issue, I must say. But cyberbullying by adults to adults is just as real as for children and teens.
I am writing Chapter blogs on the Ladies' Home Journal website titled "Up Against the Wall Street Banker" when a cyberstalking couple, (Sockpuppets is what they are called - an online identity used for purposes of deception) began to say threatening and defamatory things about me. Of course, their identity was clear to me and the threatening language of the Comments by the Sockpuppet couple became more severe, such as one that said "my goal was to keep pounding away at her (Ellen Oxman, the author). These Sockpuppets went back and forth for weeks.They lied about events that never happened, etc., all to ruin my reputation, to discredit me. I reported them to the Federal authorities and my local police, etc.. Of course, on my private e mail, I was contacted by them and when I did not wish to be in touch (they were who I suspected) their abusive comments escalated. Many were deleted, but I did capture them first. They were trying to prevent me, ironically, from writing under my real name, depriving me of my 1st Amendment Rights. I then wrote a chapter about it on "Up Against the Wall Street Banker - Chapter vs. Comments". It was the only way I saw to stand my ground. The stress caused by sockpuppets commenters is not to be underestimated. Also, I live in New York.
It is a thorny issue, I must say. But cyberbullying by adults to adults is just as real as for children and teens.
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24 May 2012 3:36AM24 May 2012 3:36AM
I'm feeling a bit dizzy. It's like, I know I'm being red-baited, but it's such tempting bait- your comment is so nonsensical and random and stupid, it's hard to resist....I'm feeling a bit dizzy. It's like, I know I'm being red-baited, but it's such tempting bait- your comment is so nonsensical and random and stupid, it's hard to resist....
*snaps out of it**snaps out of it*
Whoa- anyway what I wanted to say (not directing this at anyone in particular) is that if somebody anonymously posts slanderous or otherwise illegal materials on a site, it is reasonable that there would be some legal mechanism to force that site to remove the content.Whoa- anyway what I wanted to say (not directing this at anyone in particular) is that if somebody anonymously posts slanderous or otherwise illegal materials on a site, it is reasonable that there would be some legal mechanism to force that site to remove the content.
This is a subject that requires a nuanced approach that carefully balances the basic civil rights of the many different involved parties (the commenter, the alleged victim, the hosting company, the site operators, etc) along with the understanding that there is no perfect way to solve these problems. This also calls into question what the fundamental role of the government is in our lives, a detail that is always contentious and never given the scrutiny it deserves.This is a subject that requires a nuanced approach that carefully balances the basic civil rights of the many different involved parties (the commenter, the alleged victim, the hosting company, the site operators, etc) along with the understanding that there is no perfect way to solve these problems. This also calls into question what the fundamental role of the government is in our lives, a detail that is always contentious and never given the scrutiny it deserves.
The heavy handed tactics being discussed in the NY legislature are not the way to deal with these issues. These proposed laws have little to do with protecting anyone from true defamation; they just want to make it much more difficult for anyone to challenge authority figures without guaranteed reprisals.The heavy handed tactics being discussed in the NY legislature are not the way to deal with these issues. These proposed laws have little to do with protecting anyone from true defamation; they just want to make it much more difficult for anyone to challenge authority figures without guaranteed reprisals.
The more powerful your position in society, economically, politically, or socially, the less it is in society's interest to give you even more powers with which to crush your adversaries. Conversely it is equally important for the less powerful to have a way to fight back against abusive power structures, and anonymous online commentary is quite possibly one of the most benign ways for that to happen.The more powerful your position in society, economically, politically, or socially, the less it is in society's interest to give you even more powers with which to crush your adversaries. Conversely it is equally important for the less powerful to have a way to fight back against abusive power structures, and anonymous online commentary is quite possibly one of the most benign ways for that to happen.
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24 May 2012 3:59AM24 May 2012 3:59AM
So anonymous speech isn't protected?So anonymous speech isn't protected?
Politicians like to know EXACTLY who their enemas are.Politicians like to know EXACTLY who their enemas are.
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24 May 2012 4:04AM24 May 2012 4:04AM
"They started identifying people who had signed political petitions, along with their addresses...""They started identifying people who had signed political petitions, along with their addresses..."
Ummmm... You always have to put your name and address on a petition when you sign it.
And in NY, a single bad name or address will automatically invalidate an entire page of forty signatures, so they've got to be accurate.
Ummmm... You always have to put your name and address on a petition when you sign it.
And in NY, a single bad name or address will automatically invalidate an entire page of forty signatures, so they've got to be accurate.
They don't require names and addresses on petitions in Texas?They don't require names and addresses on petitions in Texas?
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24 May 2012 4:24AM24 May 2012 4:24AM
The status quo don't like anonynity...It makes them nervous!The status quo don't like anonynity...It makes them nervous!
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24 May 2012 4:26AM24 May 2012 4:26AM
In Texas petitions is like signing a greeting card. It looks good in practice but pretty much is considered junk mail. Addresses optional.In Texas petitions is like signing a greeting card. It looks good in practice but pretty much is considered junk mail. Addresses optional.
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24 May 2012 4:50AM24 May 2012 4:50AM
umm, why would they go all the way to canada when they could just go to new jersey which is less than a mile away?umm, why would they go all the way to canada when they could just go to new jersey which is less than a mile away?
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24 May 2012 4:51AM24 May 2012 4:51AM
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
24 May 2012 10:30AM24 May 2012 10:30AM
People may say this is no big deal because it will never get anywhere, but it demonstrates just how ridiculously out of touch lawmakers are with the realities of the modern world.People may say this is no big deal because it will never get anywhere, but it demonstrates just how ridiculously out of touch lawmakers are with the realities of the modern world.
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24 May 2012 4:31PM24 May 2012 4:31PM
After the last two years; Do you really think anyone gives 2-shitz what N.Y.Politicians want....??After the last two years; Do you really think anyone gives 2-shitz what N.Y.Politicians want....??
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24 May 2012 5:55PM24 May 2012 5:55PM
I'm reminded of a story in which Khruschev was telling the CPSU(B) about the evil acts of Stalin and Beria and invited the audience to send up written questions to the platform for him to answer when he finished. After he finished, his talk, he turned to the pile of questions on his table and answered a few and then came to one that asked: "What were you doing while Stalin and Beria were doing all these evil acts?"I'm reminded of a story in which Khruschev was telling the CPSU(B) about the evil acts of Stalin and Beria and invited the audience to send up written questions to the platform for him to answer when he finished. After he finished, his talk, he turned to the pile of questions on his table and answered a few and then came to one that asked: "What were you doing while Stalin and Beria were doing all these evil acts?"
"Who sent this question?" He asked, but answer came there none."Who sent this question?" He asked, but answer came there none.
"I was doing the same as you are.""I was doing the same as you are."
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24 May 2012 9:37PM24 May 2012 9:37PM
Like people can't find ways to anonymise themselves with a few clicks?Like people can't find ways to anonymise themselves with a few clicks?
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25 May 2012 8:13AM25 May 2012 8:13AM
This is funny coming from the Guardian, which only allow online comments for stories that make the right look bad(which is of course their right).This is funny coming from the Guardian, which only allow online comments for stories that make the right look bad(which is of course their right).
People are being jailed for inappropriate tweets in Britain, but somehow the Guardian doesn't deem these stories worthy of allowing comments.People are being jailed for inappropriate tweets in Britain, but somehow the Guardian doesn't deem these stories worthy of allowing comments.
Just an observation...Just an observation...
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25 May 2012 10:40AM25 May 2012 10:40AM
i think that its wrong that you have to sign up for everything so i think annomoys comments are ok as long as they are not used for abuse or any thing to harm someonei think that its wrong that you have to sign up for everything so i think annomoys comments are ok as long as they are not used for abuse or any thing to harm someone
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25 May 2012 10:56AM25 May 2012 10:56AM
"If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment.""If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment."
What happened to those endless campaigns about the causes of cyber bullying, rape etc. If i remeber correctly, the advice to stop this abuse was never give out personal detail online and now suddenly we are expected to give out those details without giving a second thought???? Make your mind up, either we stay safe and stay anonymous or risk losing our voice on certain topics because we log in as anonymous.What happened to those endless campaigns about the causes of cyber bullying, rape etc. If i remeber correctly, the advice to stop this abuse was never give out personal detail online and now suddenly we are expected to give out those details without giving a second thought???? Make your mind up, either we stay safe and stay anonymous or risk losing our voice on certain topics because we log in as anonymous.
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26 May 2012 9:56AM26 May 2012 9:56AM
"Well ,in this law passes, websites could easily be relocated to, say, Canada""Well ,in this law passes, websites could easily be relocated to, say, Canada"
Possibly, but the US might still hold "offenders" to account.Possibly, but the US might still hold "offenders" to account.
With weak/biased extradition the writers/site owners might find themselves on a plane.With weak/biased extradition the writers/site owners might find themselves on a plane.
CPCP
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27 May 2012 11:21AM27 May 2012 11:21AM
So if this law passes, how the hell are the authorities in New York supposed to enforce such a law, when say an anonymous commenter has posted something but the person is from another country like the UK, Spain, Brazil?So if this law passes, how the hell are the authorities in New York supposed to enforce such a law, when say an anonymous commenter has posted something but the person is from another country like the UK, Spain, Brazil?
There is no way this law would actually be practical. It just shows how llawmakers are inept with the Internet.There is no way this law would actually be practical. It just shows how llawmakers are inept with the Internet.
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Lawmakers introduced identical bills in the senate and assembly that would require identification of anonymous commentersLawmakers introduced identical bills in the senate and assembly that would require identification of anonymous commenters
Online commenters aren't exactly known for their kind words, but lawmakers in New York want to hold their constituents to a higher standard. A few Empire State lawmakers want to address that problem by doing away with anonymous commenting.Online commenters aren't exactly known for their kind words, but lawmakers in New York want to hold their constituents to a higher standard. A few Empire State lawmakers want to address that problem by doing away with anonymous commenting.
Identical bills in the senate and assembly require anonymous posts to be deleted by administrators of New York-based websites, including "social networks, blog forums, message boards, or any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages." Identical bills in the senate and assembly require anonymous posts to be deleted by administrators of New York-based websites, including "social networks, blog forums, message boards, or any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages." 
The proposal has the tech and legal communities reeling – if not outright giggling.The proposal has the tech and legal communities reeling – if not outright giggling.
"There are lots of good reasons to ban anonymous comments, and also a lot of good reasons to have anonymous comments, and the state assembly weighing on the issue is strange and slightly ridiculous, slightly goofy," Tim Wu, a professor at Columbia law school, told the Guardian."There are lots of good reasons to ban anonymous comments, and also a lot of good reasons to have anonymous comments, and the state assembly weighing on the issue is strange and slightly ridiculous, slightly goofy," Tim Wu, a professor at Columbia law school, told the Guardian.
"It is hard to imagine the value of a law that would, for example, make Columbia's course evaluation illegal. Not to mention it's an obvious first amendment violation.""It is hard to imagine the value of a law that would, for example, make Columbia's course evaluation illegal. Not to mention it's an obvious first amendment violation."
If the bills pass, website administrators would be required to provide a contact number or email address for people to request anonymous comment removals. Upon receiving a complaint, the website would then be required to contact the original commenter and give them a 48-hour window to identify their posts.If the bills pass, website administrators would be required to provide a contact number or email address for people to request anonymous comment removals. Upon receiving a complaint, the website would then be required to contact the original commenter and give them a 48-hour window to identify their posts.
If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment. If the anonymous commenter chooses not to identify themselves by providing their IP address, legal name and home address within the 48-hour slot, the website must delete the comment. 
Assemblyman Jim Conte, who co-sponsored the bill, says the bill is meant to combat cyber-bullying. Conte wrote: Assemblyman Jim Conte, who co-sponsored the bill, says the bill is meant to combat cyber-bullying. Conte wrote: 
With more and more people relying on social media and the internet to communicate and gather information, it is imperative that the legislature put into place some type of safeguard to prevent people from using the Internet's cloak of anonymity to bully our children and make false accusations against local businesses and elected officials.With more and more people relying on social media and the internet to communicate and gather information, it is imperative that the legislature put into place some type of safeguard to prevent people from using the Internet's cloak of anonymity to bully our children and make false accusations against local businesses and elected officials.
A variety of cases prosecuting anonymous commenters have arisen in the past few years, but this seems to be the first piece of statewide legislation. A variety of cases prosecuting anonymous commenters have arisen in the past few years, but this seems to be the first piece of statewide legislation. 
In April, a Texas couple won a $13.8m defamation lawsuit against anonymous commenters who accused the couple of being sexual deviants, molesters and drug dealers on Topix, a local forum website. The offending commenters were discovered when Topix disclosed the commenters information, including IP addresses.In April, a Texas couple won a $13.8m defamation lawsuit against anonymous commenters who accused the couple of being sexual deviants, molesters and drug dealers on Topix, a local forum website. The offending commenters were discovered when Topix disclosed the commenters information, including IP addresses.
Federal prosecutor Sal Perricone resigned after a justice department investigation revealed that he posted over 600 anonymous comments on a New Orleans news site. Perricone was identified after one of his targets hired a linguist to analyze the comments.Federal prosecutor Sal Perricone resigned after a justice department investigation revealed that he posted over 600 anonymous comments on a New Orleans news site. Perricone was identified after one of his targets hired a linguist to analyze the comments.
Last year, the Indianapolis Star argued that shield laws, used to protect journalists, should also apply to the anonymous commenters on their site. The court rejected this argument, but did say in other cases, commenters could be considered sources, and therefore be protected by shield laws. They also adopted the Dendrite rule, which gives the commenters an opportunity to respond and demand a significant amount of evidence to prove the comments are illegal.Last year, the Indianapolis Star argued that shield laws, used to protect journalists, should also apply to the anonymous commenters on their site. The court rejected this argument, but did say in other cases, commenters could be considered sources, and therefore be protected by shield laws. They also adopted the Dendrite rule, which gives the commenters an opportunity to respond and demand a significant amount of evidence to prove the comments are illegal.
Unlike these cases, New York's legislation places the responsibility on the website owners. Though, as David Kravets of Wired notes, "Oddly, the bill has no identification requirement for those who request the takedown of anonymous content."Unlike these cases, New York's legislation places the responsibility on the website owners. Though, as David Kravets of Wired notes, "Oddly, the bill has no identification requirement for those who request the takedown of anonymous content."