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| Girls live recap: season one, episode eight | Girls live recap: season one, episode eight |
| (40 minutes later) | |
Alan Sepinwall: One of the best ones yet. Romantic and insightful, but also very funny. Nona Willis Ruth Spencer: What did you guys think of the Hanna/Adam dynamic? Is it working for you? Are you sick of it? Nona Willis | Ruth Spencer: So, before we get to the user comments, Alan/Nona would love to get your two-sentence take on episode 8. Alan Sepinwall: One of the best ones yet. Romantic and insightful, but also very funny. Nona Willis Aronowitz: I have never seen a more complicated boyfriend character on a show ever. Also, I missed Shoshanna! Ruth Spencer: What did you guys think of the Hanna/Adam dynamic? Is it working for you? Are you sick of it? Nona Willis Aronowitz: I think it's really great how the show doesn't make clear whether adam is a "good" or "bad" boyfriend – we've discovered he's a tender one in some ways, but clearly has a lot to learn just about human interaction in general. The pee moment for instance – a less nuanced show would make us think he was a disgusting asshole who doesn't deserve hannah – but instead it's just a very real depiction of an emotionally tone-deaf thing a lover does in jest that causes you to rage out for a few minutes. and then it's done, and it's ok! |
| Alan Sepinwall: I like Adam a lot more now than I did before. They're unpeeling that onion in an interesting way. I'm wondering whom the two of you think the "Sorry" art project was meant for? Hannah? The driver? The world? | Alan Sepinwall: I like Adam a lot more now than I did before. They're unpeeling that onion in an interesting way. I'm wondering whom the two of you think the "Sorry" art project was meant for? Hannah? The driver? The world? |
Ruth Spencer: Seems like one of our readers has another idea about Adam... | Nona Willis Aronowitz: I think it was an apology to hannah done in a really socially inept fashion. Hannah called it "asperger-y" in the commentary after the show. Ruth Spencer: Seems like one of our readers has another idea about Adam... |
| HI RUTH! excited for this chat... if i could sum up the premise of this episode in one phrase it would be "MEN ARE BABIES" - Comment From imissyousomuch | HI RUTH! excited for this chat... if i could sum up the premise of this episode in one phrase it would be "MEN ARE BABIES" - Comment From imissyousomuch |
| Alan Sepinwall: I think it's more complicated than that, imissyousomuch. Adam does dumb, immature things, but also insightful things. (He's the one who appreciates what Marnie's going through.) And the rich guy's temper tantrum involves him telling both Marnie and Jessa things that are not inaccurate about them. | Alan Sepinwall: I think it's more complicated than that, imissyousomuch. Adam does dumb, immature things, but also insightful things. (He's the one who appreciates what Marnie's going through.) And the rich guy's temper tantrum involves him telling both Marnie and Jessa things that are not inaccurate about them. |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: It's pretty clear that adam IS a baby is some ways...but then again so is hannah | |
| it's exciting how Adam has turned from a character I thought we'd see only in the pilot into a real person. maybe even a more sympathetic person then Hannah – Comment From ivaddj | it's exciting how Adam has turned from a character I thought we'd see only in the pilot into a real person. maybe even a more sympathetic person then Hannah – Comment From ivaddj |
| Alan Sepinwall: ivaddj, good point. We start the show from Hannah's point of view, so he seems like a manipulative creep. But it turns out that Hannah is the one who doesn't care enough about him for us to learn more. | Alan Sepinwall: ivaddj, good point. We start the show from Hannah's point of view, so he seems like a manipulative creep. But it turns out that Hannah is the one who doesn't care enough about him for us to learn more. |
| Adam is the second most interesting character on the show after Hannah for me. It's odd that would be true of a show called "Girls". – Comment From DtheD | Adam is the second most interesting character on the show after Hannah for me. It's odd that would be true of a show called "Girls". – Comment From DtheD |
| Alan Sepinwall: @DtheD, I got a lot of complaints in my early reviews that every guy on the show was depicted negatively. I think with Adam (and with some other men to a lesser extent), the show's been going much deeper lately. | Alan Sepinwall: @DtheD, I got a lot of complaints in my early reviews that every guy on the show was depicted negatively. I think with Adam (and with some other men to a lesser extent), the show's been going much deeper lately. |
Ruth Spencer: Adam is getting more and more atttention as the episodes go on. Do you think it's possible that Hannah and Adam will stay together? I see their downfall as pretty much inevitable. | Nona Willis Aronowitz: @DtheD I totally agree. The other girls haven't been fleshed out enough for me yet--although Jessa is growing on me now that the babysitter subplot is done. Ruth Spencer: Adam is getting more and more atttention as the episodes go on. Do you think it's possible that Hannah and Adam will stay together? I see their downfall as pretty much inevitable. |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: I mean, Adam is definitely the hipster 2012 version of Mr. Big – he'll be around. | |
| Alan Sepinwall: "Hipster 2012 version of Mr. Big." I like that. | Alan Sepinwall: "Hipster 2012 version of Mr. Big." I like that. |
| I agree alan, re:imissyousomuch - i think the fact that adam is depicted as contradictory- the fact that he can emapathize almost unsentimentalty with marni but also be closed off, brittle and irrational in his behaviour (re: PEE)! is a smart take on his charact. - Comment From meowblaghnolareally? | I agree alan, re:imissyousomuch - i think the fact that adam is depicted as contradictory- the fact that he can emapathize almost unsentimentalty with marni but also be closed off, brittle and irrational in his behaviour (re: PEE)! is a smart take on his charact. - Comment From meowblaghnolareally? |
| Comment From Gregg B: Adam was completely unlikable at the start but seems like a real person now because we only got Hanna's view of him. But he has ADD or something like it. Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, Gregg, Adam is not perfect by any means. But at the start of the series, he seemed liked the grossest character in the history of non-sci-fi filmed entertainment. And he's not that now. Ruth Spencer: Let's talk about that moment where Adam is more sympathetic to Marnie than Hannah. | Comment From Gregg B: Adam was completely unlikable at the start but seems like a real person now because we only got Hanna's view of him. But he has ADD or something like it. Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, Gregg, Adam is not perfect by any means. But at the start of the series, he seemed liked the grossest character in the history of non-sci-fi filmed entertainment. And he's not that now. Ruth Spencer: Let's talk about that moment where Adam is more sympathetic to Marnie than Hannah. |
| It's interesting to me that not only is Adam more sympathetic to Marnie, but how even as Hannah and Adam become closer, I still feel thad Adam is void of emotions. Even as the onion unpeels, I don't know that Adam and Hannah can hang. - Comment From indieLindsey | It's interesting to me that not only is Adam more sympathetic to Marnie, but how even as Hannah and Adam become closer, I still feel thad Adam is void of emotions. Even as the onion unpeels, I don't know that Adam and Hannah can hang. - Comment From indieLindsey |
Nona Willis Ruth Spencer: Agreed. I think the transformation of Marnie/Hannah is v. interesting. They've changed roles.... and grown apart as a result. Nona Willis | Alan Sepinwall: Ruth, it's interesting because we're introduced to Hannah and Marnie as best friends, so we assume that's the default, but how often have they interacted positively lately? What's their friendship been like since the diary incident? Both of them have a tendency to be selfish, and here Hannah doesn't seem to care at all that Marnie is spiraling. Nona Willis Aronowitz: Haha Halle Kiefer of Rolling Stone called him Manic Pixie Dream Big: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/girls-recap-true-romance-20120603 Ruth Spencer: Agreed. I think the transformation of Marnie/Hannah is v. interesting. They've changed roles.... and grown apart as a result. Nona Willis Aronowitz: I agree Alan--Hannah and Marnie seem to have outgrown each other a lot at this point. They were probably on the same floor in their freshman dorm or something, but are now growing apart in very real ways |
| One of the intriguing things about last night's episode to me was the way Marnie and Jessa bonded over trashing Hannah, insulting her shiny forehead, her inability to keep plans, etc. Do you think we're supposed to read this as just a true-to-life example of her friends talking about her behind her back but not really meaning it, or is Hannah even more self-centered and offensive to her friends than we've been lead to believe? - Comment From Eric | One of the intriguing things about last night's episode to me was the way Marnie and Jessa bonded over trashing Hannah, insulting her shiny forehead, her inability to keep plans, etc. Do you think we're supposed to read this as just a true-to-life example of her friends talking about her behind her back but not really meaning it, or is Hannah even more self-centered and offensive to her friends than we've been lead to believe? - Comment From Eric |
| Alan Sepinwall: Eric, I think Jessa would trash anyone for the amusement of it (I have a very low opinion of her in general), where Marnie (who also hasn't been incredibly nice in previous episodes) is in a dark place where Hannah has chosen not to join her. But we've also seen plenty of examples of Hannah's own selfishness. I think it's a combination of real slights and temporary frustration. | Alan Sepinwall: Eric, I think Jessa would trash anyone for the amusement of it (I have a very low opinion of her in general), where Marnie (who also hasn't been incredibly nice in previous episodes) is in a dark place where Hannah has chosen not to join her. But we've also seen plenty of examples of Hannah's own selfishness. I think it's a combination of real slights and temporary frustration. |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: This struck me as incredibly true-to-life. Sometimes you really do end up bonding with someone over the shortcomings of your mutual friends. The shit-talking is half-affectionate, half-resentful (especially of her disappearance into a love cave), but I think also a way for them to relate to eachother--what ELSE do they have in common? | |
| Hannah and Marnie are obviously foils. It seems that Hannah has become too invested in her own personal growth (specifically with Adam) to care about Marnie's issues. Marnie has her shit together while Hannah is lacking, and Hannah's a little too self-absorbed to care about M's troubles. - Comment From indieLindsey | Hannah and Marnie are obviously foils. It seems that Hannah has become too invested in her own personal growth (specifically with Adam) to care about Marnie's issues. Marnie has her shit together while Hannah is lacking, and Hannah's a little too self-absorbed to care about M's troubles. - Comment From indieLindsey |
| Ruth Spencer: I don't think they know what else they have in common...yet but they're probably sensing that Hannah is going to be MIA, so they need to start figuring it out. I'm not a huge Jessa fan myself but when she told Marnie what she liked about her, Ishe was sincere. | Ruth Spencer: I don't think they know what else they have in common...yet but they're probably sensing that Hannah is going to be MIA, so they need to start figuring it out. I'm not a huge Jessa fan myself but when she told Marnie what she liked about her, Ishe was sincere. |
| Alan Sepinwall: I think what the show has to say about friendships is just as interesting as anything it does in the romance department. | Alan Sepinwall: I think what the show has to say about friendships is just as interesting as anything it does in the romance department. |
| I think M/H are very close friends therefore they don't have to interact positive all the time to feel good about one another . But that moment where Marnie gets a lesson from Hannah's ex was a valuable insight - Comment From ivaddj | I think M/H are very close friends therefore they don't have to interact positive all the time to feel good about one another . But that moment where Marnie gets a lesson from Hannah's ex was a valuable insight - Comment From ivaddj |
| Do you think a Adam & Marnie hook up is possible? It feels like last episode's Elijah & Marnie talking might be done for this. - Comment From Michael | Do you think a Adam & Marnie hook up is possible? It feels like last episode's Elijah & Marnie talking might be done for this. - Comment From Michael |
Alan Sepinwall: Hannah was pretty cold at the time of the break-up, too, remember? All she cares about is what Marnie thinks about the journal entry "as a piece of writing." Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: The show does not protect its characters in the slightest. I admire that. Ruth Spencer: Right -- Alan, can you expand on what you think the show is saying about female friendships? Nona Willis | Nona Willis Aronowitz: I dunno, it weirded me out that Hannah has yet to even halfheartedly console Marnie about her breakup onscreen! Alan Sepinwall: Hannah was pretty cold at the time of the break-up, too, remember? All she cares about is what Marnie thinks about the journal entry "as a piece of writing." Nona Willis Aronowitz: Haha right. Alan Sepinwall: The show does not protect its characters in the slightest. I admire that. Ruth Spencer: Right -- Alan, can you expand on what you think the show is saying about female friendships? Nona Willis Aronowitz: I seem to remember in one of the trailers that Marnie and Hannah have a big blowout about her "self-centeredness"...so I'm sure it'll come to head |
| Remember that Hanna's ex said that Marnie was the selfish one. – Comment From Gregg B | Remember that Hanna's ex said that Marnie was the selfish one. – Comment From Gregg B |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: Right, and they said it like they'd discussed it before. | |
| Alan Sepinwall: Ruth, I just meant that it deals with the ups and downs of how these four relate to each other, in different combinations, in ways that often have little or nothing to do with men. Where too many Hollywood stories about women are entirely about the search for the right guy, even when a guy's not present at the moment. Alan Sepinwall: It's a show that passes the Bechdel test with flying colors: http://bechdeltest.com/ | Alan Sepinwall: Ruth, I just meant that it deals with the ups and downs of how these four relate to each other, in different combinations, in ways that often have little or nothing to do with men. Where too many Hollywood stories about women are entirely about the search for the right guy, even when a guy's not present at the moment. Alan Sepinwall: It's a show that passes the Bechdel test with flying colors: http://bechdeltest.com/ |
| Alan Sepinwall: (i.e., it features multiple women consistently together in scenes where they're not just talking about the awesomeness of dudes) | Alan Sepinwall: (i.e., it features multiple women consistently together in scenes where they're not just talking about the awesomeness of dudes) |
| Ruth Spencer: Thanks Alan. Let's talk about Soshanna. As you mentioned, she was absent in this week's episode and we've got lots of comments coming in about her. | Ruth Spencer: Thanks Alan. Let's talk about Soshanna. As you mentioned, she was absent in this week's episode and we've got lots of comments coming in about her. |
| What's your guys' take on Shosanna? I love the character, but I don't feel she has been given enough to do. She seems to be played more for Comic Relief than anything, though, as Alan pointed out in his recap, the show is more balls out funny now than when it started. - Comment From Adam | What's your guys' take on Shosanna? I love the character, but I don't feel she has been given enough to do. She seems to be played more for Comic Relief than anything, though, as Alan pointed out in his recap, the show is more balls out funny now than when it started. - Comment From Adam |
Alan Sepinwall: Adam, Shoshanna always seemed a little out of step with the level of reality of the rest of the show. I think she's funny, but in a broader way. To stick with her obsession with Sex and the City, she's ironically the Samantha of the crew — the one who's a bit larger than life than the other three. | Nona Willis Aronowitz: From what I've heard, Shoshanna was supposed to be comic relief, but Lena Dunham was so impressed by her performance that she gave her more to do. Alan Sepinwall: Adam, Shoshanna always seemed a little out of step with the level of reality of the rest of the show. I think she's funny, but in a broader way. To stick with her obsession with Sex and the City, she's ironically the Samantha of the crew — the one who's a bit larger than life than the other three. |
| Alan Sepinwall: But in certain contexts, like the warehouse party episode, she fits in perfectly. And I like Zosia Mamet. | Alan Sepinwall: But in certain contexts, like the warehouse party episode, she fits in perfectly. And I like Zosia Mamet. |
| Ruth Spencer: She was a major force behind last week's episode... but what happened? | Ruth Spencer: She was a major force behind last week's episode... but what happened? |
| I can't be the only one who hoped to see the upshot of Shoshanna and Ray's fling... – Comment From Niel | I can't be the only one who hoped to see the upshot of Shoshanna and Ray's fling... – Comment From Niel |
| Alan Sepinwall: Season ain't over yet, Niel. | Alan Sepinwall: Season ain't over yet, Niel. |
Comment From Paul: Is it just me or does this show make living in New York seem horrible? For such a vibrant city, the most colorful things are the opening credits. The most 'fun' they've had as a group seems to have been in the waiting room of the clinic? Ruth Spencer: Alan, have you seen the entire season? Nona, have you? Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: I have, Ruth. Alan Sepinwall: And Nona, I thought Hannah's observation in the Michigan episode rang true: they're all flocking to New York because it's expected of them, but the reality tends to outstrip the fantasy by a lot. Nona Willis Ruth Spencer: Loved that line. Nona Willis | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Yeah, she's definitely a caricature, but ever since the virginity episode, I'm invested in her storyline. And Zosia does bring some nuance to the character. Comment From Paul: Is it just me or does this show make living in New York seem horrible? For such a vibrant city, the most colorful things are the opening credits. The most 'fun' they've had as a group seems to have been in the waiting room of the clinic? Ruth Spencer: Alan, have you seen the entire season? Nona, have you? Nona Willis Aronowitz: As a young New Yorker myself, I can tell you that's one of the things the show really gets right. I spend my time hating NYC a lot, even though I know in many ways it's where I want to be. Alan Sepinwall: I have, Ruth. Alan Sepinwall: And Nona, I thought Hannah's observation in the Michigan episode rang true: they're all flocking to New York because it's expected of them, but the reality tends to outstrip the fantasy by a lot. Nona Willis Aronowitz: There was a line in the Michigan episode where Hannah said something like, "It's like we're all slaves to this place that doesn't even really want us." Ruth Spencer: Loved that line. Nona Willis Aronowitz: That's a common refrain among downwardly mobile young people. It's true, and it hurts equally hard if you're a native like me. Re your q Ruth--nope I haven't seen the whole season! |
| I also like the relationship shown between Hannah and her parents. The parents aren't all-knowing and wise, but also aren't total doofuses. And your middle 20s are often when you have to start figuring out how parents and children deal with one another when everybody's an adult. – Comment From Watts | I also like the relationship shown between Hannah and her parents. The parents aren't all-knowing and wise, but also aren't total doofuses. And your middle 20s are often when you have to start figuring out how parents and children deal with one another when everybody's an adult. – Comment From Watts |
| Alan Sepinwall: Yes, I'm glad that they deepened that relationship, too, so it's not just about the Horvaths cutting Hannah off and starting her on this series of misadventures. They're people, too, and both the show and Hannah seem to be learning that at the same time. | Alan Sepinwall: Yes, I'm glad that they deepened that relationship, too, so it's not just about the Horvaths cutting Hannah off and starting her on this series of misadventures. They're people, too, and both the show and Hannah seem to be learning that at the same time. |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: I can see "My So-Called Life" influence there--making the parents people too. | |
| Todd Van Der Werff over at the AV Club (who I love) thought that Chris O'Dowd's outburst at the end of the episode was unearned. Personally, I thought Adam's earlier outburst did a good job setting us up for this theme of scary men being unable to relate to women. (After all, Weirdos Need Girlfriends, Too). What's your take on Chris O'Dowd's slightly-creepy older man character? – Comment From Eric | |
/> | /> />Alan Sepinwall: And Lena has talked about how obsessed she was with MSCL. |
/> /> Alan Sepinwall: | Ruth Spencer: Thanks Eric - was just going to dip into that territory myself. What the hell was Chris O'Dowd's character all about anyway? /> />Nona Willis Aronowitz: Yup---I also see MSCL's influence in the friendship between Marnie and Hannah--how Angela and Sharon kind of outgrow each other at one point, and it's painful /> Alan Sepinwall: O'Dowd was a little broad, too, Eric (like Shoshanna), but I thought they set it up well enough with the way the girls provoked him. They had to assume he wasn't going to just go into the bedroom and leave them to their business. /> />Alan Sepinwall: (But also, like Adam, he's nuts.) /> />Nona Willis Aronowitz: That scene went on a little too long, but that tension between hipster gentrifiers and yuppie gentrifiers is real! /> />Alan Sepinwall: Can't we all just get along, Nona? |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: Hahaha apparently not! | |
| I thought Chris O'Dowd was a bit over the top in the scene in his apartment, but maybe that was mostly because his accent seemed all over the place. Are there any other comedic actors you'd like to see appear in the future (e.g. Donald Glover being cast for next season)? – Comment From Paul | |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: Kristen Wiig should make an appearance as Jessa's alcoholic half sister Alan Sepinwall: I'm waiting to see what kind of role Apatow can corral Jon Hamm to play. He's way too old for any of them, but I think he could be a good obnoxious boss for Hannah at some point. (If AMC ever lets him do an HBO guest spot.) Alan Sepinwall: It was not an ideal accent. But then, I wasn't entirely sure in his first few scenes in both Bridesmaids and Friends with Kids if he was playing American or not. | |
| Ruth Spencer: What about the makeout scene? I was confused. It felt like a fantasy but then they both seemed so into it. Are we being set up for something more between Jessa or Marnie or was that just a romp for fun? Alan Sepinwall: I couldn't help but think of Jessa's line from an earlier episode about she doesn't go on dates because (said very scornfully) "dates are for lesbians." | Ruth Spencer: What about the makeout scene? I was confused. It felt like a fantasy but then they both seemed so into it. Are we being set up for something more between Jessa or Marnie or was that just a romp for fun? Alan Sepinwall: I couldn't help but think of Jessa's line from an earlier episode about she doesn't go on dates because (said very scornfully) "dates are for lesbians." |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: It did seem to go on longer than the typical faux-lesbian kissing scene, but I think it just a way for them to bond--I don't think it was about sexual attraction necessarily. Jessa seemed more impressed than anything else. | |
| I want to see Adam and Chris make out. – Comment From Dominic | I want to see Adam and Chris make out. – Comment From Dominic |
| Don't we all... – Comment From Paul | Don't we all... – Comment From Paul |
| I watched that a few times to see what I thought Jessa's reasoning was. Like you said before, Alan, she seems like the kind of person who'll do anything just for the amusement of it. To me it looks like she went along with it just for the hell of it, as much as to piss off the man she viewed as a bore. After all, if she was making out with Marnie, than Chris O'Dowd wasn't , and so Jessa wouldn't be a third-wheel. - Comment From Eric | I watched that a few times to see what I thought Jessa's reasoning was. Like you said before, Alan, she seems like the kind of person who'll do anything just for the amusement of it. To me it looks like she went along with it just for the hell of it, as much as to piss off the man she viewed as a bore. After all, if she was making out with Marnie, than Chris O'Dowd wasn't , and so Jessa wouldn't be a third-wheel. - Comment From Eric |
Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: Yes, she was definitely surprised/impressed by Marnie. | Alan Sepinwall: That's a very good point, Eric. Jessa's main goal in being there was to protect Marnie from what she assumed to be a boring creep. Nona Willis Aronowitz: Yeah, she did it "for the story". She did do it to protect Marnie, but her smirk right before the kiss suggests a sort of "Wow okay! This should be interesting!" Alan Sepinwall: Yes, she was definitely surprised/impressed by Marnie. |
| Ruth Spencer: I keep waiting for Jessa to enjoy herself doing something, anything. I find she's become such a downer. What do you guys think? | Ruth Spencer: I keep waiting for Jessa to enjoy herself doing something, anything. I find she's become such a downer. What do you guys think? |
| Wasn't Jessa just trying to make the whole thing in the apartment about *her*? – Comment From Niel | Wasn't Jessa just trying to make the whole thing in the apartment about *her*? – Comment From Niel |
| Alan Sepinwall: Ruth, I think that's the one way in which the show mitigates a lot of Jessa's behavior. She's even more self-absorbed and destructive than the other two (leaving Shoshanna out of the equation), but it clearly comes out of a feeling of misery. She wreaks all this havoc on other people's lives, but it doesn't bring her much joy. | Alan Sepinwall: Ruth, I think that's the one way in which the show mitigates a lot of Jessa's behavior. She's even more self-absorbed and destructive than the other two (leaving Shoshanna out of the equation), but it clearly comes out of a feeling of misery. She wreaks all this havoc on other people's lives, but it doesn't bring her much joy. |
| I like Jessa. She's done the crazy stuff but it feels like she's trying to get herself together now. And seeing characters fail at that is always fun – Comment From ivaddj | I like Jessa. She's done the crazy stuff but it feels like she's trying to get herself together now. And seeing characters fail at that is always fun – Comment From ivaddj |
| Ruth Spencer: Hannah used to be that way too, but then she found Adam. Is the show saying that all women need men to find satisfaction? | Ruth Spencer: Hannah used to be that way too, but then she found Adam. Is the show saying that all women need men to find satisfaction? |
| I actually love Jessa... Maybe it's because I think the character's not *that* far off from Jemima Kirke's character in Tiny Furniture, and she was one of the happy surprises of that movie for me. I don't think of her as miserable, exactly... I think she's supposed to be like the uber-hipster... so "bored" and "over it" all that she doesn't realize she's actually depriving herself of fun, as much as she's constantly pretending like her fun is better than everyone else's. – Comment From Eric | I actually love Jessa... Maybe it's because I think the character's not *that* far off from Jemima Kirke's character in Tiny Furniture, and she was one of the happy surprises of that movie for me. I don't think of her as miserable, exactly... I think she's supposed to be like the uber-hipster... so "bored" and "over it" all that she doesn't realize she's actually depriving herself of fun, as much as she's constantly pretending like her fun is better than everyone else's. – Comment From Eric |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: But the difference between that movie and this show is that they try to make Jessa a real person | |
Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, both Dunham and Kirke are playing more well-rounded characters this time, Kirke especially. | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Whereas the character in Tiny Furniture was pure satire Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, both Dunham and Kirke are playing more well-rounded characters this time, Kirke especially. |
| @Ruth Hannah never changed. she just took a break - soon enough she'll spiral again – Comment From ivaddj | @Ruth Hannah never changed. she just took a break - soon enough she'll spiral again – Comment From ivaddj |
Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: (And the guy who plays Ray gets to be funnier here.) | Nona Willis Aronowitz: I do find Jessa a little misanthropic. But at least she's sort of understanding what kind of effect she has on people (like her realization in the emergency room last episode) Alan Sepinwall: (And the guy who plays Ray gets to be funnier here.) |
| Ruth Spencer: Right, Nona. Agreed. Let me ask you, any favorite lines from last night's episode? | Ruth Spencer: Right, Nona. Agreed. Let me ask you, any favorite lines from last night's episode? |
| I think they are setting us up for Adam to play the "crazy boyfriend" and the life lesson will be be Hannah should be careful what she wishes for. Yawn. – Comment From Dominic | I think they are setting us up for Adam to play the "crazy boyfriend" and the life lesson will be be Hannah should be careful what she wishes for. Yawn. – Comment From Dominic |
Ruth Spencer: oooh good one Nona. | Nona Willis Aronowitz: I liked this one: "Do you know how unusual it is to see someone doing something like that … so open and honest and weird and you're not making fun of them in your mind?" Ruth Spencer: oooh good one Nona. |
| I loved O'Dowd's comparison of Jessa to Julie Christie, the beat for them to think about it, and then the girls murmuring "ooh good reference" – Comment From Paul | I loved O'Dowd's comparison of Jessa to Julie Christie, the beat for them to think about it, and then the girls murmuring "ooh good reference" – Comment From Paul |
| Alan Sepinwall: Whereas I'm 12, so I liked when Adam told Hannah, "It doesn't make sense to get out now. There's pee on you." | Alan Sepinwall: Whereas I'm 12, so I liked when Adam told Hannah, "It doesn't make sense to get out now. There's pee on you." |
| Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, Paul, O'Dowd wasn't a total drip. He had that little moment. Ruth Spencer: He also had, "No more excluding me, Mary Poppins!!" -- which I liked quite a lot. | Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, Paul, O'Dowd wasn't a total drip. He had that little moment. Ruth Spencer: He also had, "No more excluding me, Mary Poppins!!" -- which I liked quite a lot. |
| Speaking of lines, the dialogue for this show is amazing. I love what they write for Adam because you never know what he's going to say. – Comment From Ryan | Speaking of lines, the dialogue for this show is amazing. I love what they write for Adam because you never know what he's going to say. – Comment From Ryan |
Alan Sepinwall: Getting back to that earlier question about the male characters and the title, it's interesting that in this episode, at least, most of the really quotable jokes came from Adam or O'Dowd. Ruth Spencer: Nona, we encourage that kind of thing here on #girlschat. No such thing as oversharing. Nona Willis | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Haha I liked the pee moment too. That scene has definitely happened to me. (TMI?) Alan Sepinwall: Getting back to that earlier question about the male characters and the title, it's interesting that in this episode, at least, most of the really quotable jokes came from Adam or O'Dowd. Ruth Spencer: Nona, we encourage that kind of thing here on #girlschat. No such thing as oversharing. Nona Willis Aronowitz: Haha. I just really loved how he was being kind of a dick, but then again she was overreacting. It wasn't a clearly good or bad moment. |
| Ruth Spencer: Alan, what's your take on Dunham vs Apatow for directing & writing? Does one write more for the male characters than the other? | Ruth Spencer: Alan, what's your take on Dunham vs Apatow for directing & writing? Does one write more for the male characters than the other? |
| Alan, if Mad MEN can be as much about Peggy, Betty, Megan, and Joan as it is, then I guess we can let Adam be a focus of GIRLS. – Comment From Watts | Alan, if Mad MEN can be as much about Peggy, Betty, Megan, and Joan as it is, then I guess we can let Adam be a focus of GIRLS. – Comment From Watts |
| Alan, do you think that is the influence of Dan Sterling's writing? Although Dunham has written good stuff for Adam in previous episodes. – Comment From Paul | Alan, do you think that is the influence of Dan Sterling's writing? Although Dunham has written good stuff for Adam in previous episodes. – Comment From Paul |
Nona Willis Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: Someone owes someone a Coke Nona Willis | Alan Sepinwall: I think you credit, like, 90 percent of the show to Dunham. Apatow gives notes (she said on Twitter last night he told her to go for more romantic moments), and he co-wrote the Michigan script, but that guy has 57 different jobs. The voice of the show is very clearly hers, whether for the men or the women. Nona Willis Aronowitz: Ruth, I've heard that Apatow wrote some of the most emotional moments, and Dunham wrote the grossest, more slapsticky moments. Nona Willis Aronowitz: Jinx Alan Sepinwall: Someone owes someone a Coke Nona Willis Aronowitz: Yes, maybe he didn't "write" the most emotional moments, but he pushed for them. |
Ruth Spencer: We've got seven minutes left. What else do you think is important to note about this week's episode? Alan Sepinwall: The revelation that Hannah was the cause of the relationship becoming toxic was definitely the season's most pleasant surprise. Maybe not quite M. Night Shyamalan, but definitely something that makes you re-examine everything you've seen before. Alan Sepinwall: I still want to know who you two think the apology was meant for. I thought it was ambiguous, though leaning towards Hannah. My readers thought it was unequivocally Hannah. Nona Willis | Alan Sepinwall: He's also much more experienced at this than Dunham is (as is Jenni Konner, the other showrunner). You can watch the show and see her trying out things, figuring out how this whole thing works as an ongoing series. And over time, rough edges are being smoothed out. I don't expect there to be a scene as clumsy as the one a few weeks ago where Hannah tries to seduce her boss. Ruth Spencer: We've got seven minutes left. What else do you think is important to note about this week's episode? Alan Sepinwall: The revelation that Hannah was the cause of the relationship becoming toxic was definitely the season's most pleasant surprise. Maybe not quite M. Night Shyamalan, but definitely something that makes you re-examine everything you've seen before. Alan Sepinwall: I still want to know who you two think the apology was meant for. I thought it was ambiguous, though leaning towards Hannah. My readers thought it was unequivocally Hannah. Nona Willis Aronowitz: I wrote earlier that it was for Hannah, but I might be influenced by Lena Dunham's explanation |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: Which was that it was an "Asperger-y" apology for her | |
Nona Willis Ruth Spencer: I think the apology was meant for Hannah but it came out the way all of Adam's actions do, in extremes. Alan Sepinwall: The rent is a big matzoh ball, just hanging out there, to quote Seinfeld. Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: On the sex question, maybe now that they've stopped miscommunicating what each of them wants in this relationship, they're also better at figuring out what the other wants in bed? So it's not just his mortifying fantasies. | Alan Sepinwall: Oh, right. I stayed up late last night reviewing Mad Men. My brain is Swiss cheese. Nona Willis Aronowitz: I'm still wondering about two things: a) the sex between them--did it suddenly, miraculously get better just cause they're bf-gf? Did she really orgasm, or was she faking it? b) What about her finances? Isn't rent due?? It's just hard to go from 0 to 60 so fast. Their sex was TERRIBLE. Ruth Spencer: I think the apology was meant for Hannah but it came out the way all of Adam's actions do, in extremes. Alan Sepinwall: The rent is a big matzoh ball, just hanging out there, to quote Seinfeld. Nona Willis Aronowitz: HA! It really is. She's really leaving Marnie hanging in more ways that one. Alan Sepinwall: On the sex question, maybe now that they've stopped miscommunicating what each of them wants in this relationship, they're also better at figuring out what the other wants in bed? So it's not just his mortifying fantasies. |
| The apology was obviously for Hannah – Comment From Kosi | The apology was obviously for Hannah – Comment From Kosi |
| Even if it was to the cab driver, he did it for/ because of her. – Comment From Ken Scott | Even if it was to the cab driver, he did it for/ because of her. – Comment From Ken Scott |
| The apology was definitely for Hannah. He wanted to say "A boyfriend shouldn't freak out like that", at least in front of his girlfriend. He sort of came to the realization that his weird and awkward attempt to show some sort of chivalry in defending his girlfriend from the car actually just weirded her out. – Comment From Peter | The apology was definitely for Hannah. He wanted to say "A boyfriend shouldn't freak out like that", at least in front of his girlfriend. He sort of came to the realization that his weird and awkward attempt to show some sort of chivalry in defending his girlfriend from the car actually just weirded her out. – Comment From Peter |
| Alan Sepinwall: Yes, but the whole relationship went from 0 to 60. He went from being an ass with a gift for always saying the most ego-deflating thing to her to being Mr. Wonderful. We don't know how much time has passed since the warehouse party (or do we?), but everything they're doing is on a major upswing. | Alan Sepinwall: Yes, but the whole relationship went from 0 to 60. He went from being an ass with a gift for always saying the most ego-deflating thing to her to being Mr. Wonderful. We don't know how much time has passed since the warehouse party (or do we?), but everything they're doing is on a major upswing. |
Ruth Spencer: Who directed/wrote next week's episode? | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Good point, Alan--and it's been a couple weeks. Maybe they've grown on eachother. Ruth Spencer: Who directed/wrote next week's episode? |
Ruth Spencer: What will you both be looking forward to for next week? | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Right...I was thinking it wasn't, like, the next day because of the Rome thing. But recent enough that Marnie's still moping around. Ruth Spencer: What will you both be looking forward to for next week? |
| Alan, Nona and Ruth, how much would you pay to see the girls interact with Fiona Gallagher? – Comment From Tom | Alan, Nona and Ruth, how much would you pay to see the girls interact with Fiona Gallagher? – Comment From Tom |
| Ruth Spencer: Tom +10000 Alan Sepinwall: Tom, Fiona (from Shameless) would have absolutely zero use for any of these four. She'd chew 'em up and spit 'em out and steal their wallets. Ruth Spencer: Jessa and Fiona would be an epic combo. | Ruth Spencer: Tom +10000 Alan Sepinwall: Tom, Fiona (from Shameless) would have absolutely zero use for any of these four. She'd chew 'em up and spit 'em out and steal their wallets. Ruth Spencer: Jessa and Fiona would be an epic combo. |
Ruth Spencer: Girls in Chicago: crossover episode? Nona Willis Alan Sepinwall: She's not ready for him yet, Nona. He's a man. He knows how to do things. Nona Willis Ruth Spencer: Ugh. THAT SCENE. Ugh ugh ugh ugh!!! | Nona Willis Aronowitz: Holy shit, Fiona! That'd be really great. I want a working class character who's NOT just a caricature, like the nannies. Ruth Spencer: Girls in Chicago: crossover episode? Nona Willis Aronowitz: In terms of next week's episode--Shoshanna update. And when is Marnie hooking up with that artist? Alan Sepinwall: She's not ready for him yet, Nona. He's a man. He knows how to do things. Nona Willis Aronowitz: OHHH I'd say she's ready for him. Ruth Spencer: Ugh. THAT SCENE. Ugh ugh ugh ugh!!! |
| Forget the artist, more Marnie and Jessa – Comment From Kosi | Forget the artist, more Marnie and Jessa – Comment From Kosi |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: And she has no frame of reference here, man. | |
| Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, she's had the same boyfriend since early in college. Hannah, amazingly, is more worldly when it comes to men. Ruth Spencer: I look forward to more of Marnie wigging out. I hope she shaves her head. Or something. | Alan Sepinwall: Yeah, she's had the same boyfriend since early in college. Hannah, amazingly, is more worldly when it comes to men. Ruth Spencer: I look forward to more of Marnie wigging out. I hope she shaves her head. Or something. |
| Marnie is into whoever is into her. – Comment From Jim | Marnie is into whoever is into her. – Comment From Jim |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: And it was implied that she didn't have much sex after her deflowering at 14. | |
| Maybe Marnie hooks up with Ray. That would be special kind of something – Comment From Gregg B | Maybe Marnie hooks up with Ray. That would be special kind of something – Comment From Gregg B |
| Nona Willis Aronowitz: But he wouldn't even hate fuck her remember? | |
| Ruth Spencer: Thanks Nona, thanks Alan! We're out of time. | Ruth Spencer: Thanks Nona, thanks Alan! We're out of time. |
| Hope she hooks up with Zach Galifinakos from Bored to Death. Also in Brooklyn. – Comment From Gregg B | Hope she hooks up with Zach Galifinakos from Bored to Death. Also in Brooklyn. – Comment From Gregg B |