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Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales attacks government's 'snooper's charter' Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales attacks government's 'snooper's charter'
(about 1 month later)
Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, has sharply criticised the government's "snooper's charter", designed to track internet, text and email use of all British citizens, as "technologically incompetent".Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, has sharply criticised the government's "snooper's charter", designed to track internet, text and email use of all British citizens, as "technologically incompetent".
He said Wikipedia would move to encrypt all its connections with Britain if UK internet companies, such as Vodafone and Virgin Media, were mandated by the government to keep track of every single page accessed by UK citizens.He said Wikipedia would move to encrypt all its connections with Britain if UK internet companies, such as Vodafone and Virgin Media, were mandated by the government to keep track of every single page accessed by UK citizens.
The entrepreneur said he was confident there would be a general move to encryption across the internet if British-based communication service providers were required to collect and store data for 12 months from overseas companies, such as Google and Facebook, for possible access by the police and security services.The entrepreneur said he was confident there would be a general move to encryption across the internet if British-based communication service providers were required to collect and store data for 12 months from overseas companies, such as Google and Facebook, for possible access by the police and security services.
He said the British government would have to resort to the "black arts" of hacking to break encryptions: "It is not the sort of thing I'd expect from a western democracy. It is the kind of thing I would expect from the Iranians or the Chinese and it would be detected immediately by the internet industry," he told MPs and peers.He said the British government would have to resort to the "black arts" of hacking to break encryptions: "It is not the sort of thing I'd expect from a western democracy. It is the kind of thing I would expect from the Iranians or the Chinese and it would be detected immediately by the internet industry," he told MPs and peers.
His intervention came as leading UK internet companies, including Vodafone and Virgin Media, also raised concerns about the responsibility for retaining and storing sensitive data from overseas third-party companies, which, they said, would damage their commercial relationships and entail a competitive disadvantage.His intervention came as leading UK internet companies, including Vodafone and Virgin Media, also raised concerns about the responsibility for retaining and storing sensitive data from overseas third-party companies, which, they said, would damage their commercial relationships and entail a competitive disadvantage.
The internet industry, which is giving evidence to a parliamentary special select committee on the draft communications data bill, said the legislation could create new opportunities for hackers and "malicious agents" wanting sensitive private information about individuals.The internet industry, which is giving evidence to a parliamentary special select committee on the draft communications data bill, said the legislation could create new opportunities for hackers and "malicious agents" wanting sensitive private information about individuals.
The London Internet Exchange (Linx), told MPs it had serious concerns that the proposals would create a "profiling engine", a filtering system that would produce detailed profiles on all users of electronic communications systems and allow sophisticated data mining.The London Internet Exchange (Linx), told MPs it had serious concerns that the proposals would create a "profiling engine", a filtering system that would produce detailed profiles on all users of electronic communications systems and allow sophisticated data mining.
In a written submission Linx said it would be a challenge to safeguard this profiling engine, and that a breach would be "a significant threat to national security".In a written submission Linx said it would be a challenge to safeguard this profiling engine, and that a breach would be "a significant threat to national security".
The organisation stated that the profiling engine amounted to "an enormously powerful tool for public authorities". Its submission said: "Its mere existence significantly implicates privacy rights, and its extensive use would represent a dramatic shift in the balance between personal privacy and the capabilities of the state to investigate and analyse the citizen."The organisation stated that the profiling engine amounted to "an enormously powerful tool for public authorities". Its submission said: "Its mere existence significantly implicates privacy rights, and its extensive use would represent a dramatic shift in the balance between personal privacy and the capabilities of the state to investigate and analyse the citizen."
The £1.8bn scheme will require UK-based internet and phone providers to retain and store for 12 months the "traffic data" – who sent what, to whom, from where – of every British citizen's internet, text and mobile phone use. The move would exclude the contents of messages.The £1.8bn scheme will require UK-based internet and phone providers to retain and store for 12 months the "traffic data" – who sent what, to whom, from where – of every British citizen's internet, text and mobile phone use. The move would exclude the contents of messages.
The Home Office has admitted it cannot force foreign companies like Google and Facebook to store and hand over sensitive personal data. Instead it is hoping for voluntary agreements. But the legislation includes powers to require British communication firms to collect and store third-party data that cross their networks.The Home Office has admitted it cannot force foreign companies like Google and Facebook to store and hand over sensitive personal data. Instead it is hoping for voluntary agreements. But the legislation includes powers to require British communication firms to collect and store third-party data that cross their networks.
Home Office security officials estimate that the rapidly evolving nature of the internet stops them tracking up to 25% of communications data despite such information being used as evidence in the majority of terrorist and serious crime cases. Internet and phone companies currently only keep data collected for their own business billing.Home Office security officials estimate that the rapidly evolving nature of the internet stops them tracking up to 25% of communications data despite such information being used as evidence in the majority of terrorist and serious crime cases. Internet and phone companies currently only keep data collected for their own business billing.
The Internet Service Providers Association said the government estimated that this "gap" could be cut by 10% and questioned whether this was sufficient to justify the proposals or whether it represented value for money.The Internet Service Providers Association said the government estimated that this "gap" could be cut by 10% and questioned whether this was sufficient to justify the proposals or whether it represented value for money.
Comments
266 comments, displaying first
5 September 2012 8:52PM
It's quite hard to overstate how much this proposal stinks.
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5 September 2012 8:56PM
I wonder how much an encrypted connection to an overseas proxy would cost?
I have nothing to hide myself, but like the idea of GCHQ spending time trying to find what CDs I have been buying.
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5 September 2012 8:56PM
It certainly does stink but it is refreshing to see people and business are not willing to play ball.
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5 September 2012 8:57PM
I predict that the government will spend hundreds of millions of pounds implementing this snooper's charter.
I predict that I will pay $5 / month for a virtual private network that will completely negate it.
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5 September 2012 8:57PM
£1.8billion...the cost to who exactly?
Are we not trying to trim the budget (in all the wrong places it goes without saying...) or is this the cost to the said companies...?
Answers on a postcard please as only the odd postman will read that....
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5 September 2012 9:00PM
It looks like corporate power is mobilising itself in defense of the individual rather than, as we have be come to expect, in defense of their directors and shareholders.
Maybe, just maybe this a struggle on behalf of the people against government interference with free speech and privacy.
It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.
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5 September 2012 9:00PM
what if you where using TOR?
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5 September 2012 9:00PM
Google 'virtual private network' and take your pick.
VPN's are also very useful against those other incompetent and malevolent idiots - the entertainment industry. Netflix has a crappy selection of movies in the UK but a VPN to a server in the States gives everything they can watch in the States.
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5 September 2012 9:01PM
"If you've got nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about" is a line that regularly gets trotted out by proponents of such monitoring but this is false and intellectually dishonest as it sets up a false dichotomy between persons who are criminals and wish for privacy and persons who are not criminals and do not need privacy. There is a middle ground here: persons who are not criminals but wish for privacy. is it really that hard to understand?
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5 September 2012 9:04PM
The government is making it harder and harder to be anti-social... At this rate I'll have to start having 'real conversations' with 'friends'.
And frankly, they annoy me enough as it is.
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5 September 2012 9:04PM
It's like saying, we want our public library, local newsagent, and every high street shop to co-operate in monitoring what every one reads, browses and spends on. Talk about Big Brother watching you, mind you, Britain has more security cameras than any other country in the world. And how much is it going to cost ISPs to store 12 months of Britain's total bandwidth traffic? Incompetent policy making indeed.
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5 September 2012 9:04PM
........... and all this from the fucking SMALL STATISTS? what the hell is wrong with these imbeciles!
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5 September 2012 9:05PM
Jimmy Wales rightly compares us to Iran or China with this dreadful charter. There is no security threat that justifies this incursion. This is not the way to police society. People and their activities should not be tracked by default.
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5 September 2012 9:05PM
As a retired techie It won't work and it will a waste of money. To mis- quote Bill Deedes all sensible people assume their mail is opened, their telephone tapped and all their data is already collected.
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5 September 2012 9:05PM
If the preliminary stages of this snooping haven't already been initiated, then either this bunch of neo-con clowns is laying down a smokescreen/red herring, or more likely............ they don't know what they're doing.
Whatever happened to trying to do the right thing? Maybe, there's no profit in common sense?
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5 September 2012 9:06PM
Well, back to writing letters and looking at saucy French postcards, I suppose.
Freedom was nice the the few years we were allowed it, wasn't it?
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5 September 2012 9:09PM
One has to wonder why the politicians (of all parties) want to do this. Any criminal or terrorist with more than two brain cells isn't going to use the Internet for anything dodgy, so that only leaves the rest of us to be snooped on, just in case some of us decide to get involved in minority politics - demonstrations, protests and all the other things democracies are supposed to protect.
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5 September 2012 9:11PM
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5 September 2012 9:14PM
The other day I was stuck on a hot, noisy train and I sent a text message to a friend saying "I'm on a train and I think I might kill someone."
Consequently, I'd rather the Goverment didn't waste £1.8bn storing and potentially misunderstanding most of the drivel I put in private text messages and emails.
Perhaps instead they could spend it on the train network.
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5 September 2012 9:15PM
...It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
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5 September 2012 9:16PM
The nation state is fighting for survival in a world gone global. This is the same problem the USA has with Assange. He is a global player, the USA only has legitimate jurisdiction over its citizens, who too, are global players. The nation state is an anachronism. We need global institutions based on open governance. It is the only way forward. Everything else is tainted with selfishness, in a world of sharing.
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5 September 2012 9:16PM
Anyone who says "...if you've got nothing to hide..." should immediately have a 24 hour internet live camera installed in all their bedrooms, toilets and bathrooms to remind them of the concept of privacy.
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5 September 2012 9:22PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8121804/David-Cameron-lectures-China-on-value-of-democracy.html
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5 September 2012 9:24PM
We need global institutions based on open governance
I agree entirely but suspect we'll eventually global institutions based on closed governance :(
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5 September 2012 9:26PM
Aw, come on, have a bit of sympathy. It's damn hard work being a proper politician or policeman, so you can understand why they want to turn everything over to technology!
So prepare your off-springs' offsprings to be chipped at birth - for their own good, of course - and learn to love Big Brother. And what is there not to love about Dave & George, and their ilk???
Or - move to Scotland. And I hear Albania has come on a lot...
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5 September 2012 9:27PM
Over the next 10 to 15 years the GDP will decrease to a value between -10% to -20%, the resulting civil unrest and demand for social justice will lead to the implementation of what the Soviet dictators called "normalization".
In the hey day of the Soviets you had a select inner group "nomenklatura" served by a class of political commissars(officers) who's function was to indoctrinate the proletariat with political propaganda, spy on and eliminate dissent within the bourgeois(stasi), and a secret police who could kill with impunity.
Norman Davies has documented everything to the extent that the records of the Warsaw pact are open ie East Germany and Poland.
During the "normalization" phase which I expect to continue for the next 5 years, we will be bombarded with political propaganda and extreme ideology will infest the public space. The secret police will extend the power of the state to control every aspect of the personal space and continue to kill with impunity.
At this time it is a mistake to be politically active or engage in civil disobedience. Far better to parrot the double speak and be invisible. For those that seek power, domination and total control of culture are doubly dangerous in that quest for domination and the imposition of their authoritarian state,
History has always shown that it is at that moment of supreme power in the hands of the psychopaths that there will always be a Ghandi, a Karol Wojtyła, a Nelson Mandela that can break their hideous strength, for we are humanity, within us is dignity, we are not the autonomous actors of the free market, we are humans, the human tradition is documented in the historical record. There will be a transition, change will come. Defend your humanity, act with dignity.
On 17 February 1941, Maximilian Kolbe was arrested by the German Gestapo and imprisoned in the Pawiak prison. On 28 May, he was transferred to Auschwitz as prisoner #16670.
At the end of July 1941, three prisoners disappeared from the camp, prompting SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch, the deputy camp commander, to pick 10 men to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts. When one of the selected men, Franciszek Gajowniczek, cried out, "My wife! My children!", Kolbe volunteered to take his place.
In the starvation cell, he celebrated Mass each day and sang hymns with the prisoners.
He led the other condemned men in song and prayer and encouraged them by telling them they would soon be with Mary in Heaven. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. The guards wanted the bunker emptied and they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid. Some who were present at the injection say that he raised his left arm and calmly waited for the injection.
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5 September 2012 9:27PM
The British government distrusts and hates the British public. I don't really know why, we are as docile as lambs to the slaughter?
But, I suppose they fear the odd one who may rise up.
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5 September 2012 9:30PM
Very well said.
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5 September 2012 9:30PM
The answer is Tor
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5 September 2012 9:33PM
so much for reducing the deficit - they can find the money when it serves their bizarre, control-freak purposes
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5 September 2012 9:34PM
Jimmy Wales is a follower of Ayn Rand. I don't trust him.
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5 September 2012 9:34PM
Am I really the first person to notice a connection between this information-gathering proposal and the increasing amount of time that doctors and teachers are having to spend collecting statistics for... for who, exactly? "Policy-makers" seems to be the most common term. They've not actually been a rip-roaring success, have they? Or have I misinterpreted the recent healthcare scandals and marking cock-ups?
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5 September 2012 9:34PM
it is refreshing to see people and business are not willing to play ball
They have some basic technical knowledge.
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5 September 2012 9:35PM
This government despises and distrusts its citizens.
The default position is that while we are here, we are all paedophiles and tax dodgers.
When we choose to travel, we then apparently morph into terrorists.
In all cases are guilty until whatever - I'm still waiting to find out....
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5 September 2012 9:36PM
Very brave. Quite possibly raving mad, by that point. And certainly no model of resistance.
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5 September 2012 9:38PM
Anyone who says "...if you've got nothing to hide..." should immediately have a 24 hour internet live camera installed in all their bedrooms, toilets and bathrooms to remind them of the concept of privacy.
And should also be totally willing to divulge their tax paid on total earnings (the latter defined in the broadest sense).
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5 September 2012 9:38PM
what if you where using TOR?
You might want to try installing the add-on HTTPS Everywhere if you are using Firefox or Chrome
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5 September 2012 9:39PM
That's how it is with predators - they are totally paranoid. Mind you, with good cause. They know what they themselves are like, and what they do - so their very real fear is that there are others with the same mindset, but more powerful and not necessarily on their side. Hence, like with Daleks, all opposition must be exterminated.
And I don't even like Dr. Who...
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5 September 2012 9:41PM
Remember that one of the pre-election promises of the Lib Dems (I know, I know, don't laugh) was that they would roll back the increasing intrusion into private and civil freedoms by use of new technology?
The abolition of New Labour's authoritarian madnesses such as ID cards and biometric passports is great, but I have little doubt that if the current government could afford them they would go ahead.
A relatively cheap intrusion such as this, whereby the ISPs bear most of the cost, is apparently fine, however.
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5 September 2012 9:41PM
"If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about" is not a slogan an apparently free and fair democracy should subscribe to.
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5 September 2012 9:43PM
Workers cannot have rights at work as it is a "burden" on business. But any burden on business and the consumer is ok to allow police state Laws to be enforced. Will the big brother data state record which M. P. s are fiddling their expenses? Another broken promise from the coalition. What happened to their pre election promise to be less authoritarian than Labour? Up in smoke like the Green agenda and opposition to the third runway. Total fail like all the rest of their policies. Liars with out any integrity.
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5 September 2012 9:46PM
Remember that encryption will not stop HMG keeping a log of who you contacted, when. If you use anonymous redirects the fact that you are making heavy use of that facility will be flagged up.
If the authorities want your encryption keys, they will ask you for them. It is an offence to withhold them, and people have already gone to jail for that.
Excuse me, there is someone knocking on my door....
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5 September 2012 9:49PM
This demonstrates how *completely* incompetent our political parties *STILL* are when it comes to understanding the internet. Their attempts to police information are indeed akin to China, or N.Korea - it would be scary if it wasn't such a stupid waste of time. They are effectively going to try to put the onus on commercial companies to do their dirty work. How dumb is that?
The reality is, criminals will simply use proxy servers and encrypt the data at that point - those servers can be anywhere in the world. This effectively makes the governments idea laughable, unless they intend to try to monitor and decrypt all encrypted traffic - sorry, unless they try to make ISP's monitor and decrypt encrypted traffic.
Good luck trying that one on.
I hope the ISP's fight this - to be honest, they have little choice BUT to fight it, as the cost to them in terms of time will be ridiculous.
What a joke.
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5 September 2012 9:50PM
Mr Clegg said he was against the idea of a central database and the government reading people's e-mails at will.
"I'm totally opposed as a Liberal Democrat and as someone who believes in people's privacy and civil liberties," he said.
I should warn you that this is a link to the Daily Telegraph in which Nick Clegg bravely stands up against a "central government database" (not needed if you force ISPs to keep decentralised records) and against "the government reading people's e-mails at will" - but not against the government being able to know all about your email history.
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5 September 2012 9:50PM
"If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about" is not a slogan an apparently free and fair democracy should subscribe to.
Since when was Orwell's (or Ballard's for that matter) Britain free, fair or democratic?
There's a great quote in "The Thick Of It" about the great un(brain)washed
:
"These are the kind of fucks who watched Mandela walk to freedom and said 'Is Diagnosis: Murder not on the other side'?"
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5 September 2012 9:55PM
Once again the threat to us living in an open and free democracy comes not from without; from terrorists or communists or anarchists; but from within, from our supposed 'representatives', who treat a democratic mandate (not that there even is one here) as license to do whatever they wish.
This spying network was explicitly opposed by the Conservatives before they got people's votes. Once inpower, they have explcitly broken their word, with the LibDems once again acting as complicit enablers.
What this spy network will do will be to install a government minister, a policeman, an MI5 agent on your shoulder, snooping on everything you do; all your interests and sexual proclivities; your political interests and affiliations and any attempt you might make to oppose your government, or its interests, through entirely legitimate, peaceful protest and democratic means.
This is a permanent Forward Intelligence Team, watching everything you do online.
No government that calls itself Democratic could support this. It will fundementally redifine the relationship between the people and the state.
Only those who wish to re-create the Stasi state of Eastern Germany - but correct for its inneficiencies - could sanction a spy network like this.
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5 September 2012 9:56PM
Online petition for Folks who wish to stand up against this Tory cyber tyranny.....
LINK
If enough people show they are against the insecure politicians will back off, remember the 2015 General Elections will see a lot of Conservative losing their seats, kick them where it hurts the most.
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5 September 2012 9:58PM
The answer is Tor
Is it? Every time I've tried it, it has been painfully slow.
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5 September 2012 10:00PM
It's the home office isn't it? Land of civil servants who think frredom is a dirty word. If only we had a home secretary who realised how corrupted the HO has become and sacked the private secretaries and clered out the stables. Unfortunately they put sedatives in he minister's tea, and look where we end up.
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5 September 2012 10:00PM
Anyone who says "...if you've got nothing to hide...
Anyone who says that is either ignorant of Goering's propaganda or the proud possessor of a third-rate mind.
I am thinking of Charles Clarke. Met him in person once. To my mind, not ministerial material.
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Jimmy Wales says his website would encrypt all connections with Britain, and called the plans 'technologically incompetent'
Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia, has sharply criticised the government's "snooper's charter", designed to track internet, text and email use of all British citizens, as "technologically incompetent".
He said Wikipedia would move to encrypt all its connections with Britain if UK internet companies, such as Vodafone and Virgin Media, were mandated by the government to keep track of every single page accessed by UK citizens.
The entrepreneur said he was confident there would be a general move to encryption across the internet if British-based communication service providers were required to collect and store data for 12 months from overseas companies, such as Google and Facebook, for possible access by the police and security services.
He said the British government would have to resort to the "black arts" of hacking to break encryptions: "It is not the sort of thing I'd expect from a western democracy. It is the kind of thing I would expect from the Iranians or the Chinese and it would be detected immediately by the internet industry," he told MPs and peers.
His intervention came as leading UK internet companies, including Vodafone and Virgin Media, also raised concerns about the responsibility for retaining and storing sensitive data from overseas third-party companies, which, they said, would damage their commercial relationships and entail a competitive disadvantage.
The internet industry, which is giving evidence to a parliamentary special select committee on the draft communications data bill, said the legislation could create new opportunities for hackers and "malicious agents" wanting sensitive private information about individuals.
The London Internet Exchange (Linx), told MPs it had serious concerns that the proposals would create a "profiling engine", a filtering system that would produce detailed profiles on all users of electronic communications systems and allow sophisticated data mining.
In a written submission Linx said it would be a challenge to safeguard this profiling engine, and that a breach would be "a significant threat to national security".
The organisation stated that the profiling engine amounted to "an enormously powerful tool for public authorities". Its submission said: "Its mere existence significantly implicates privacy rights, and its extensive use would represent a dramatic shift in the balance between personal privacy and the capabilities of the state to investigate and analyse the citizen."
The £1.8bn scheme will require UK-based internet and phone providers to retain and store for 12 months the "traffic data" – who sent what, to whom, from where – of every British citizen's internet, text and mobile phone use. The move would exclude the contents of messages.
The Home Office has admitted it cannot force foreign companies like Google and Facebook to store and hand over sensitive personal data. Instead it is hoping for voluntary agreements. But the legislation includes powers to require British communication firms to collect and store third-party data that cross their networks.
Home Office security officials estimate that the rapidly evolving nature of the internet stops them tracking up to 25% of communications data despite such information being used as evidence in the majority of terrorist and serious crime cases. Internet and phone companies currently only keep data collected for their own business billing.
The Internet Service Providers Association said the government estimated that this "gap" could be cut by 10% and questioned whether this was sufficient to justify the proposals or whether it represented value for money.