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| GCHQ chief expresses regret at treatment of Alan Turing | GCHQ chief expresses regret at treatment of Alan Turing |
| (about 2 hours later) | |
| The head of GCHQ has spoken with regret of the treatment of Alan Turing, the second world war codebreaker and mathematical genius, who killed himself in 1954, two years after being convicted of homosexuality, which was then a criminal offence. | The head of GCHQ has spoken with regret of the treatment of Alan Turing, the second world war codebreaker and mathematical genius, who killed himself in 1954, two years after being convicted of homosexuality, which was then a criminal offence. |
| In a rare speech to mark the centenary of Turing's birth, Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks, and it was his job to set them to work in the world of secret intelligence, "not to tell them how to live their lives". | In a rare speech to mark the centenary of Turing's birth, Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks, and it was his job to set them to work in the world of secret intelligence, "not to tell them how to live their lives". |
| Lobban told an audience in Leeds that Turing was a national asset whose death robbed the country of "one of our greatest minds". He said more people like Turing were needed if Britain was to stay ahead of the challenges and dangers posed from cyberspace. | Lobban told an audience in Leeds that Turing was a national asset whose death robbed the country of "one of our greatest minds". He said more people like Turing were needed if Britain was to stay ahead of the challenges and dangers posed from cyberspace. |
| "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." | "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." |
| In 2009 the then prime minister, Gordon Brown, apologised for the treatment and vilification Turing received. | In 2009 the then prime minister, Gordon Brown, apologised for the treatment and vilification Turing received. |
| Turing was a central member of the team at Bletchley Park, the code-breaking centre that played a significant role during the 1940s, unravelling encrypted communications used by the Nazis. He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. | Turing was a central member of the team at Bletchley Park, the code-breaking centre that played a significant role during the 1940s, unravelling encrypted communications used by the Nazis. He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. |
| Lobban, who has been head of GCHQ, the government's electronic intelligence-gathering centre, for four years, described Turing as "a founder of the information age … One of the people whose concepts are at the heart of a technological revolution which is as far-reaching as the industrial revolution." | Lobban, who has been head of GCHQ, the government's electronic intelligence-gathering centre, for four years, described Turing as "a founder of the information age … One of the people whose concepts are at the heart of a technological revolution which is as far-reaching as the industrial revolution." |
| He added: "And of course there are many Turing stories: burying his silver bullion and then forgetting where he had buried it; chaining his mug to his radiator; cycling in his gas mask to ward off hay fever. | He added: "And of course there are many Turing stories: burying his silver bullion and then forgetting where he had buried it; chaining his mug to his radiator; cycling in his gas mask to ward off hay fever. |
| "But Turing was not an eccentric, unless you believe that there is only one way of being normal and to be otherwise is to be peculiar. Turing wasn't eccentric. He was unique." | "But Turing was not an eccentric, unless you believe that there is only one way of being normal and to be otherwise is to be peculiar. Turing wasn't eccentric. He was unique." |
| Lobban insisted today's GCHQ needed more people like him. "I strongly believe [the] agency needs the widest range of skills possible if it is to be successful, and to deny itself talent just because the person with the talent doesn't conform to a social stereotype is to starve itself of what it needs to thrive. | Lobban insisted today's GCHQ needed more people like him. "I strongly believe [the] agency needs the widest range of skills possible if it is to be successful, and to deny itself talent just because the person with the talent doesn't conform to a social stereotype is to starve itself of what it needs to thrive. |
| "Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. | "Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. |
| "I want to apply and exploit their talent. In return, I think it's fair that I don't need to tell them how to live their lives." | "I want to apply and exploit their talent. In return, I think it's fair that I don't need to tell them how to live their lives." |
| Lobban said GCHQ needed to "reach beyond the university level. We must inspire schoolchildren to study maths and science. We must find tomorrow's Turings." | Lobban said GCHQ needed to "reach beyond the university level. We must inspire schoolchildren to study maths and science. We must find tomorrow's Turings." |
| He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace. | He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace. |
| "Then, the technological challenge was to stay ahead of the Germans. Today, our challenges come from the explosion in the volume of communications as well as the relentless increase in new ways of accessing and processing it. | "Then, the technological challenge was to stay ahead of the Germans. Today, our challenges come from the explosion in the volume of communications as well as the relentless increase in new ways of accessing and processing it. |
| "Then, the challenge was to secure allied codes and ciphers to prevent the enemy doing to us what we were doing to them. Today, [it is] securing cyberspace so the UK … can use it safely to develop e-government and trade." | "Then, the challenge was to secure allied codes and ciphers to prevent the enemy doing to us what we were doing to them. Today, [it is] securing cyberspace so the UK … can use it safely to develop e-government and trade." |
| Lobban also used the speech to explode some of the myths about Bletchley Park, particularly regarding the Enigma machine, which was used by the Nazis to encrypt messages. | Lobban also used the speech to explode some of the myths about Bletchley Park, particularly regarding the Enigma machine, which was used by the Nazis to encrypt messages. |
| "You have probably all seen the Hollywood version of the Enigma story," he said. "The films showing heroic sailors leaping onto sinking German submarines to recover their Enigma machines. The truth around the initial acquisition is a little more prosaic. In 1926, Edward Travis, who later became director of GCHQ, went to Berlin and obtained an Enigma machine by the simple expedient of going to the manufacturing company and buying one." | "You have probably all seen the Hollywood version of the Enigma story," he said. "The films showing heroic sailors leaping onto sinking German submarines to recover their Enigma machines. The truth around the initial acquisition is a little more prosaic. In 1926, Edward Travis, who later became director of GCHQ, went to Berlin and obtained an Enigma machine by the simple expedient of going to the manufacturing company and buying one." |
| Comments | Comments |
| 129 comments, displaying first | 129 comments, displaying first |
| 4 October 2012 7:06PM | 4 October 2012 7:06PM |
| A good start for our intelligence services maybe to remove that stupid comprehension exam they put applicants through. Or maybe they already have and I'm living in the past. Better late than never, but apologies are hollow even when the person is alive. | A good start for our intelligence services maybe to remove that stupid comprehension exam they put applicants through. Or maybe they already have and I'm living in the past. Better late than never, but apologies are hollow even when the person is alive. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:08PM | 4 October 2012 7:08PM |
| About bloody time. Turing was a genius and one of the fathers of modern Computer Science. Driven to suicide because of his sexuality. A tragedy. | About bloody time. Turing was a genius and one of the fathers of modern Computer Science. Driven to suicide because of his sexuality. A tragedy. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:13PM | 4 October 2012 7:13PM |
| This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. | This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. |
| 4 October 2012 7:14PM | 4 October 2012 7:14PM |
| It rather sounds like Mr Lobban should be offering Gark McKinnon a job... | It rather sounds like Mr Lobban should be offering Gark McKinnon a job... |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:15PM | 4 October 2012 7:15PM |
| *Gary McKinnon | *Gary McKinnon |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:16PM | 4 October 2012 7:16PM |
| The bit about jumping into German submarines as I understand it was to recover the latest codebooks, used for setting the Enigma machines. And Enigma machines were developed a lot since 1926, with extra rotors and so on. A tragedy indeed about Turing and one hopes attitudes have improved. | The bit about jumping into German submarines as I understand it was to recover the latest codebooks, used for setting the Enigma machines. And Enigma machines were developed a lot since 1926, with extra rotors and so on. A tragedy indeed about Turing and one hopes attitudes have improved. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:17PM | 4 October 2012 7:17PM |
| At last an apparent belated recognition of the failure of group think and the marginalization of mavericks. I will however not hold my breath. Remember how many enemy spies we allowed to take root because they a) went to good schools or b went to the right college. | At last an apparent belated recognition of the failure of group think and the marginalization of mavericks. I will however not hold my breath. Remember how many enemy spies we allowed to take root because they a) went to good schools or b went to the right college. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:19PM | 4 October 2012 7:19PM |
| It's a sad state of affairs that The Tory front bench probably couldn't pass the Turing Test. | It's a sad state of affairs that The Tory front bench probably couldn't pass the Turing Test. |
| Judging by Dave's appearance on Letterman, IDS's Universal Credit Cock-up and Gideon's economic train wreck. | Judging by Dave's appearance on Letterman, IDS's Universal Credit Cock-up and Gideon's economic train wreck. |
| Oh... and Gove's schools for Lilliputians. | Oh... and Gove's schools for Lilliputians. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:25PM | 4 October 2012 7:25PM |
| Too late. | Too late. |
| Pointless gesture since the bloke is dead. | Pointless gesture since the bloke is dead. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:29PM | 4 October 2012 7:29PM |
| Homosexual acts were illegal in the United Kingdom in 1952 when Turing was charged with gross indecency. He was given a 'choice' of imprisonment or probation conditional on his agreement to undergo hormone treatment designed to reduce libido (!). Turing accepted the option of treatment via injections of a synthetic oestrogen over a period of a year. The treatment caused Turing great distress (as well it might) rendering him impotent and causing gynecomastia. | Homosexual acts were illegal in the United Kingdom in 1952 when Turing was charged with gross indecency. He was given a 'choice' of imprisonment or probation conditional on his agreement to undergo hormone treatment designed to reduce libido (!). Turing accepted the option of treatment via injections of a synthetic oestrogen over a period of a year. The treatment caused Turing great distress (as well it might) rendering him impotent and causing gynecomastia. |
| This was done in our name and in my view was and is monstrous and barbaric. | This was done in our name and in my view was and is monstrous and barbaric. |
| There are no apologies that can ever ever assuage the guilt of this shockingly unjust treatment to anybody let alone a towering genius like Turing. | There are no apologies that can ever ever assuage the guilt of this shockingly unjust treatment to anybody let alone a towering genius like Turing. |
| Sorry for the rant, but if anything makes my piss boil, it is this country's treatment of this man. | Sorry for the rant, but if anything makes my piss boil, it is this country's treatment of this man. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:33PM | 4 October 2012 7:33PM |
| "He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace." | "He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace." |
| Would he? Maybe not given the way he was 'treated'. | Would he? Maybe not given the way he was 'treated'. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:36PM | 4 October 2012 7:36PM |
| This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. | This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. |
| 4 October 2012 7:36PM | 4 October 2012 7:36PM |
| The problem is that the dark forces of ignorance and prejudice that drove poor, tortured Turing to take his own life still exist today. Just look at the attitudes to gay rights demonstrated by the Tory rightwing and sundry various religious groups - nothing has changed. The question all these bigots need to be asked is, if this was your beloved son or daughter, would you hate them as much as you hate all the others? And no, I'm not some deranged gay activist. I'm a happily married hetro father of two wonderful hetro children. All I care about is truth, justice and tolerance. What bothers me is the continuing Tory assault on these priceless values... | The problem is that the dark forces of ignorance and prejudice that drove poor, tortured Turing to take his own life still exist today. Just look at the attitudes to gay rights demonstrated by the Tory rightwing and sundry various religious groups - nothing has changed. The question all these bigots need to be asked is, if this was your beloved son or daughter, would you hate them as much as you hate all the others? And no, I'm not some deranged gay activist. I'm a happily married hetro father of two wonderful hetro children. All I care about is truth, justice and tolerance. What bothers me is the continuing Tory assault on these priceless values... |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:36PM | 4 October 2012 7:36PM |
| He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. | He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. |
| I'm not sure whether this refers to the "bombe" or Colossus. He was involved in developing the former but I don't think it was the model for the modern computer. Tommy Flowers developed Colossus which was the first computer. | I'm not sure whether this refers to the "bombe" or Colossus. He was involved in developing the former but I don't think it was the model for the modern computer. Tommy Flowers developed Colossus which was the first computer. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:40PM | 4 October 2012 7:40PM |
| This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. | This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. |
| 4 October 2012 7:46PM | 4 October 2012 7:46PM |
| @GCHQ | @GCHQ |
| Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks ... | Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks ... |
| Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. | Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. |
| I've heard of a chap who seems a bit of a dab hand at the old computering thing. Bit of a maverick, but as that's what you're after, maybe you might consider him. His name is Gary McKinnon. And, unlike Alan Turing, he has the full support of the state. Oh, hang on ... | I've heard of a chap who seems a bit of a dab hand at the old computering thing. Bit of a maverick, but as that's what you're after, maybe you might consider him. His name is Gary McKinnon. And, unlike Alan Turing, he has the full support of the state. Oh, hang on ... |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:46PM | 4 October 2012 7:46PM |
| Thank you Alan Turing. Thank you for what you did for this country. Thank you that I don't speak German and have not been taught to welcome the death or disappearance of the handicapped, the gay, the gypsy, or the jew. I salute you for choosing a mode of death that was kind to your Mum. I'm sorry that this country treated you so attrociously for being who you were. | Thank you Alan Turing. Thank you for what you did for this country. Thank you that I don't speak German and have not been taught to welcome the death or disappearance of the handicapped, the gay, the gypsy, or the jew. I salute you for choosing a mode of death that was kind to your Mum. I'm sorry that this country treated you so attrociously for being who you were. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:51PM | 4 October 2012 7:51PM |
| It is most unlikely that Turing did commit suicide, and a modern Coroner would almost certainly not bring in that verdict. The Coroner did not consider evidence of his state of mind, and the evidence is that he was anything but suicidal. There was no note and the investigation of his death was so sloppy that the apple that is supposed to have killed him was never tested for cyanide. | It is most unlikely that Turing did commit suicide, and a modern Coroner would almost certainly not bring in that verdict. The Coroner did not consider evidence of his state of mind, and the evidence is that he was anything but suicidal. There was no note and the investigation of his death was so sloppy that the apple that is supposed to have killed him was never tested for cyanide. |
| Pof. Jack Copeland recently made a full investiagtion of Turing's death. His conclusion was that Turing's death was most likely an accident resuting from careless handling of cyanide, which he used in his private lab. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092. | Pof. Jack Copeland recently made a full investiagtion of Turing's death. His conclusion was that Turing's death was most likely an accident resuting from careless handling of cyanide, which he used in his private lab. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092. |
| What is appalling is that when Turing was prosecuted for gross indecency, if his Commanding Officer had turned up to Court and told that Court that Turing had made a highly secret and vital contibution to the war effort the case would have been dropped. But he didn't, the ungrateful bastard. | What is appalling is that when Turing was prosecuted for gross indecency, if his Commanding Officer had turned up to Court and told that Court that Turing had made a highly secret and vital contibution to the war effort the case would have been dropped. But he didn't, the ungrateful bastard. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:51PM | 4 October 2012 7:51PM |
| About bloody time. Turing was a genius and one of the fathers of modern Computer Science. Driven to suicide because of his sexuality. A tragedy. | About bloody time. Turing was a genius and one of the fathers of modern Computer Science. Driven to suicide because of his sexuality. A tragedy. |
| Absolutely. | Absolutely. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:56PM | 4 October 2012 7:56PM |
| Sorry for the rant, but if anything makes my piss boil, it is this country's treatment of this man. | Sorry for the rant, but if anything makes my piss boil, it is this country's treatment of this man. |
| There are very many of us who agree with your sentiments 100%. | There are very many of us who agree with your sentiments 100%. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 7:57PM | 4 October 2012 7:57PM |
| Why would you speak German? Did the people of occupied France all speak German? | Why would you speak German? Did the people of occupied France all speak German? |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:02PM | 4 October 2012 8:02PM |
| Too little, far too late! | Too little, far too late! |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:04PM | 4 October 2012 8:04PM |
| I was about to click recommend till I read your last paragraph. The people who worked at Bletchley Park had such a strong devotion to secrecy that some of them were appalled when the story came out in the 70s. I assume the commanding officer you refer to was equally devoted to secrecy. I'm not sure of your assumption that the case would have been dropped - I think that sort of evidence is usually used for mitigation after the verdict has been made. | I was about to click recommend till I read your last paragraph. The people who worked at Bletchley Park had such a strong devotion to secrecy that some of them were appalled when the story came out in the 70s. I assume the commanding officer you refer to was equally devoted to secrecy. I'm not sure of your assumption that the case would have been dropped - I think that sort of evidence is usually used for mitigation after the verdict has been made. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:04PM | 4 October 2012 8:04PM |
| What would Alan Turing be working on today? | What would Alan Turing be working on today? |
| Solutions to existential threats. | Solutions to existential threats. |
| Then it was the Nazis, but now the challenge is to address the threats of our impact on the planet. Cybercime is but a small element in the mix. If I was Turing, I'd be on the forefront of developing distributed, resilient networks for addressing our planetary boundaries. | Then it was the Nazis, but now the challenge is to address the threats of our impact on the planet. Cybercime is but a small element in the mix. If I was Turing, I'd be on the forefront of developing distributed, resilient networks for addressing our planetary boundaries. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:08PM | 4 October 2012 8:08PM |
| " mid-20th century Britain" These were (hypocritical) Victorian attitudes to sexuality, sadly fossilised into 20th century opinions. | " mid-20th century Britain" These were (hypocritical) Victorian attitudes to sexuality, sadly fossilised into 20th century opinions. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:11PM | 4 October 2012 8:11PM |
| Hmm...but there's some genuine doubt as to whether Turing was distressed about his homosexuality, albeit being arrested is distressing. It was not secret from the people who knew him. And there's some genuine doubt about what killed him -- which was very possibly accident. | Hmm...but there's some genuine doubt as to whether Turing was distressed about his homosexuality, albeit being arrested is distressing. It was not secret from the people who knew him. And there's some genuine doubt about what killed him -- which was very possibly accident. |
| But it's good that they've done the decent thing and apologised for being rotten to him for being who he was. | But it's good that they've done the decent thing and apologised for being rotten to him for being who he was. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:11PM | 4 October 2012 8:11PM |
| The disgusting treatment of the disabled by this government......... Will we have to wait decades for an apology for this? | The disgusting treatment of the disabled by this government......... Will we have to wait decades for an apology for this? |
| Things move on.... on to new imaginary enemies.... Or should I say; Things don't move on? | Things move on.... on to new imaginary enemies.... Or should I say; Things don't move on? |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:14PM | 4 October 2012 8:14PM |
| "He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace." | "He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace." |
| But why only in time of war does this country have need for such great minds? In peacetime, is Britain's darkest hour surely, when it regards such levels of fear and bigotry a more highly esteemed characteristic of society than the promotion of brilliant minds in the service of humanity. It is a society more free, more tolerant and more celebrating of human achievement, that is robbed of such great people. Britain back then was unworthy of such. | But why only in time of war does this country have need for such great minds? In peacetime, is Britain's darkest hour surely, when it regards such levels of fear and bigotry a more highly esteemed characteristic of society than the promotion of brilliant minds in the service of humanity. It is a society more free, more tolerant and more celebrating of human achievement, that is robbed of such great people. Britain back then was unworthy of such. |
| Alan achieved an incredible amount in a very short life. He was only 41. Imagine what he would have achieved if he'd lived, until say 82. Yes, shame indeed what this society and the state did to him and so many such young men. | Alan achieved an incredible amount in a very short life. He was only 41. Imagine what he would have achieved if he'd lived, until say 82. Yes, shame indeed what this society and the state did to him and so many such young men. |
| One doesn't like to presume but on the other hand, if Turing was alive now, he could be working to secure cyberspace's interests in the UK. He belonged ultimately to a different order. | One doesn't like to presume but on the other hand, if Turing was alive now, he could be working to secure cyberspace's interests in the UK. He belonged ultimately to a different order. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:17PM | 4 October 2012 8:17PM |
| "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." | "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." |
| Is not what he said... | Is not what he said... |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:18PM | 4 October 2012 8:18PM |
| Sentiment is the same though | Sentiment is the same though |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:18PM | 4 October 2012 8:18PM |
| This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. | This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. |
| 4 October 2012 8:20PM | 4 October 2012 8:20PM |
| Turing was 100% British. If not, then what else? And what did he do for his country? What did his country do for him? | Turing was 100% British. If not, then what else? And what did he do for his country? What did his country do for him? |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:24PM | 4 October 2012 8:24PM |
| the sad thing is people who do not conform don¨t get a job as they do not fit in to the correct behviour of office culture | the sad thing is people who do not conform don¨t get a job as they do not fit in to the correct behviour of office culture |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:24PM | 4 October 2012 8:24PM |
| Nicely said - Gordon Brown's apology was very sincere as well. You can read the full text of it here. | Nicely said - Gordon Brown's apology was very sincere as well. You can read the full text of it here. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:27PM | 4 October 2012 8:27PM |
| I don't think that either Alan Turing's or David Kelly's deaths were suicides. Alan Turing died because homosexuals were considered security risks and he knew too much. David Kelly died because the UK and the US were faking claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and he knew too much. | I don't think that either Alan Turing's or David Kelly's deaths were suicides. Alan Turing died because homosexuals were considered security risks and he knew too much. David Kelly died because the UK and the US were faking claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and he knew too much. |
| Now GCHQ is talent spotting for cyber criminals to work as cyber warriors invading the privacy of foreign nations and British citizens. Are foreign intelligence gathering and domestic surveillance intrinsically criminal activities or are the people involved morally and ethically bankrupt? | Now GCHQ is talent spotting for cyber criminals to work as cyber warriors invading the privacy of foreign nations and British citizens. Are foreign intelligence gathering and domestic surveillance intrinsically criminal activities or are the people involved morally and ethically bankrupt? |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:27PM | 4 October 2012 8:27PM |
| Translation: "I wish we hadn't been such homophobic bigots in those days." Hypocrites. Anti-gay bigotry continues to this day. Who will be the next Turing to take his (or her) own life in despair? | Translation: "I wish we hadn't been such homophobic bigots in those days." Hypocrites. Anti-gay bigotry continues to this day. Who will be the next Turing to take his (or her) own life in despair? |
| http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9578028/Opponents-of-gay-marriage-dominate-MPs-postbags.html | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9578028/Opponents-of-gay-marriage-dominate-MPs-postbags.html |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:30PM | 4 October 2012 8:30PM |
| Here's a rundown of Professor Jack Copeland's cool look at whether Alan Turing really was "that sort" i.e. being homosexual so naturally unstable, more prone to suicide, who was miserable, bowed down and weird enough to be obsessed with the snow white story to eat a poisoned apple.... | Here's a rundown of Professor Jack Copeland's cool look at whether Alan Turing really was "that sort" i.e. being homosexual so naturally unstable, more prone to suicide, who was miserable, bowed down and weird enough to be obsessed with the snow white story to eat a poisoned apple.... |
| or... | or... |
| at the height (so far) of his career, with a history of being careless with experiments done next door to his bedroom, not at all unhappy with being gay, out to friends & acquaintances, pretty well-adjusted, and reported by a friend as saying, | at the height (so far) of his career, with a history of being careless with experiments done next door to his bedroom, not at all unhappy with being gay, out to friends & acquaintances, pretty well-adjusted, and reported by a friend as saying, |
| “The day of the trial [for gross indecency] was by no means disagreeable. Whilst in custody with the other criminals, I had a very agreeable sense of irresponsibility, rather like being back at school.” | “The day of the trial [for gross indecency] was by no means disagreeable. Whilst in custody with the other criminals, I had a very agreeable sense of irresponsibility, rather like being back at school.” |
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| 4 October 2012 8:30PM | 4 October 2012 8:30PM |
| We should be grateful that the appalling attitudes of the time are largely behind us, but one wonders why it has taken so long to express regrets for the loss of this brilliant mind. | We should be grateful that the appalling attitudes of the time are largely behind us, but one wonders why it has taken so long to express regrets for the loss of this brilliant mind. |
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| 4 October 2012 8:32PM | 4 October 2012 8:32PM |
| I suppose one of the 'upsides' of war is that it acts as a Darwinian meritocracy ; if you want to succeed you have to use the best people regardless of whether they 'conform'. One of my heroes for instance is Orde Wingate. | I suppose one of the 'upsides' of war is that it acts as a Darwinian meritocracy ; if you want to succeed you have to use the best people regardless of whether they 'conform'. One of my heroes for instance is Orde Wingate. |
| With regard to the recruitment at BP Churchill is reputed to have said, on a visit: "When I asked you to leave no stone unturned I didn't expect you to take me so literally" | With regard to the recruitment at BP Churchill is reputed to have said, on a visit: "When I asked you to leave no stone unturned I didn't expect you to take me so literally" |
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| 4 October 2012 8:37PM | 4 October 2012 8:37PM |
| I assume they're referring to the Universal Turing Machine which was a theoretical explanation of the modern computer. You're quite right, he didn't work on the Colossus machines, although he was involved in developing the algorithms that it ran. | I assume they're referring to the Universal Turing Machine which was a theoretical explanation of the modern computer. You're quite right, he didn't work on the Colossus machines, although he was involved in developing the algorithms that it ran. |
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| 4 October 2012 8:37PM | 4 October 2012 8:37PM |
| Well done, mainstream media, for completely missing the point of Turing 2012. | Well done, mainstream media, for completely missing the point of Turing 2012. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:38PM | 4 October 2012 8:38PM |
| Don't look now but any "future Alan Turings" will not be working for the Man. They will be finding ways to fight back against government secrecy and other injustices. Turing worked for the cause of liberty against tyranny; anyone hoping to emulate him won't be devoting their lives to support those who persecute Anonymous, Wikileaks and other heroes of the people. | Don't look now but any "future Alan Turings" will not be working for the Man. They will be finding ways to fight back against government secrecy and other injustices. Turing worked for the cause of liberty against tyranny; anyone hoping to emulate him won't be devoting their lives to support those who persecute Anonymous, Wikileaks and other heroes of the people. |
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| 4 October 2012 8:38PM | 4 October 2012 8:38PM |
| Turing had a brain, something the current party ensconced in Westminster lack big time. They have substituted intelligence with class identity. | Turing had a brain, something the current party ensconced in Westminster lack big time. They have substituted intelligence with class identity. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:43PM | 4 October 2012 8:43PM |
| He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. | He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. |
| I'm not sure whether this refers to the "bombe" or Colossus. | I'm not sure whether this refers to the "bombe" or Colossus. |
| Alas, I fear it is all too likely (though if Richard Norton-Taylor or Nick Hopkins wishes to dispel my fears, I'll gladly believe either one) that this is a reference to "Turing machines", first so named by Alonzo Church in his 1937 review of Turing's (also 1937) paper "On computable numbers, with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem" (sorry for the German, Mr. packrat; can't be helped), in which Turing called them simply "computing machines". They were of course not literal, physical "machines" at all, nor even blueprints (or the like) for any physical machine, and no physical computer (in the modern sense: Turing used the word "computer" to refer to a human being engaged in computing) can accurately be said to instantiate a "Turing machine" (for reasons of intrinsic finitude and perfect infallibility). Turing machines are "the model for the modern" theory of computation (and, consequently, of theoretical and practical computer programming languages, recursion theory, and the like), not "the model for the modern computer". | Alas, I fear it is all too likely (though if Richard Norton-Taylor or Nick Hopkins wishes to dispel my fears, I'll gladly believe either one) that this is a reference to "Turing machines", first so named by Alonzo Church in his 1937 review of Turing's (also 1937) paper "On computable numbers, with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem" (sorry for the German, Mr. packrat; can't be helped), in which Turing called them simply "computing machines". They were of course not literal, physical "machines" at all, nor even blueprints (or the like) for any physical machine, and no physical computer (in the modern sense: Turing used the word "computer" to refer to a human being engaged in computing) can accurately be said to instantiate a "Turing machine" (for reasons of intrinsic finitude and perfect infallibility). Turing machines are "the model for the modern" theory of computation (and, consequently, of theoretical and practical computer programming languages, recursion theory, and the like), not "the model for the modern computer". |
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| 4 October 2012 8:44PM | 4 October 2012 8:44PM |
| This is true. My Great Aunt, who I never met, worked with Turing in Bletchley. Even after the whole thing was no longer a national secret she would seize up and refuse to talk when questioned about her time there. I'm pretty sure she went senile before she died. (All of that, whilst from sources I trust... is beyond subjective - I never met her) | This is true. My Great Aunt, who I never met, worked with Turing in Bletchley. Even after the whole thing was no longer a national secret she would seize up and refuse to talk when questioned about her time there. I'm pretty sure she went senile before she died. (All of that, whilst from sources I trust... is beyond subjective - I never met her) |
| From the whole lecture I did get a tone of forgiveness and redemption. Particularly as Turing has become an influential historical figure and the consequent western liberalisation after his death (something which surely can be attributed to the intellectual success he contributed to the Allied forces?) It seemed that GCHQ are keen to remove themselves from the external repression which supposedly lead to his death. Personally, I think that Turing would be the kind of person to destroy his personal information before he died so no one could ever really know. I can understand that at the time everyone Bletchley would be subject to a highly repressive atmosphere - which is entirely understandable given the circumstances. I did feel that there was an undercurrent of we're [GCHQ] progressive liberal, which is always tainted with an implicit acceptance of "we no longer know whats really going on". It's an interesting one. | From the whole lecture I did get a tone of forgiveness and redemption. Particularly as Turing has become an influential historical figure and the consequent western liberalisation after his death (something which surely can be attributed to the intellectual success he contributed to the Allied forces?) It seemed that GCHQ are keen to remove themselves from the external repression which supposedly lead to his death. Personally, I think that Turing would be the kind of person to destroy his personal information before he died so no one could ever really know. I can understand that at the time everyone Bletchley would be subject to a highly repressive atmosphere - which is entirely understandable given the circumstances. I did feel that there was an undercurrent of we're [GCHQ] progressive liberal, which is always tainted with an implicit acceptance of "we no longer know whats really going on". It's an interesting one. |
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| 4 October 2012 8:46PM | 4 October 2012 8:46PM |
| Agreed Incidentally why do we never hear about the post office electrician who actually built the valve computer? Was he not a hero too, or was he just a working class pleb above his station ? | Agreed Incidentally why do we never hear about the post office electrician who actually built the valve computer? Was he not a hero too, or was he just a working class pleb above his station ? |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:49PM | 4 October 2012 8:49PM |
| @whoever wrote this article: Also the phrase "blue sky thinking" made that whole lecture a write off if you ask me... | @whoever wrote this article: Also the phrase "blue sky thinking" made that whole lecture a write off if you ask me... |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:50PM | 4 October 2012 8:50PM |
| Let us not forget that all this faffing around beating criminals in cyberspace will no doubt produce even more thorough ways of spying upon us and extending the state's control over society. I rather worry about engaging the best brains to carry out such work. | Let us not forget that all this faffing around beating criminals in cyberspace will no doubt produce even more thorough ways of spying upon us and extending the state's control over society. I rather worry about engaging the best brains to carry out such work. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:51PM | 4 October 2012 8:51PM |
| There is an aspect to the death of the wonderful Alan Turing that is not often mentioned. Although, of course it is mentioned, but it is not fully defined or thought through. This is the phenomenon state organised community mobbing or gang stalking. Of course, it should be pointed out this sort of activity is engaged in by organisations of any size. The aim is to use 'soft' (psychological) coercion, 'gaslighting' etc, to control an individual. For an example, just watch The Insider by Michael Mann. It does tend to drive the 'target' to an early grave and that can sometimes be intentional. It still occurs. It is not a subject that ever appears in the media. And although everyone knows about it, can think of many examples - it somehow it remain in a blind spot, we are thus far unable to fully examine it. | There is an aspect to the death of the wonderful Alan Turing that is not often mentioned. Although, of course it is mentioned, but it is not fully defined or thought through. This is the phenomenon state organised community mobbing or gang stalking. Of course, it should be pointed out this sort of activity is engaged in by organisations of any size. The aim is to use 'soft' (psychological) coercion, 'gaslighting' etc, to control an individual. For an example, just watch The Insider by Michael Mann. It does tend to drive the 'target' to an early grave and that can sometimes be intentional. It still occurs. It is not a subject that ever appears in the media. And although everyone knows about it, can think of many examples - it somehow it remain in a blind spot, we are thus far unable to fully examine it. |
| Link to this comment: | Link to this comment: |
| 4 October 2012 8:51PM | 4 October 2012 8:51PM |
| Why would you speak German? Did the people of occupied France all speak German? | Why would you speak German? Did the people of occupied France all speak German? |
| No. They were occupied for less than five years. And, you know what I meant, you little tinker you. | No. They were occupied for less than five years. And, you know what I meant, you little tinker you. |
| Thank you Alan Turing. | Thank you Alan Turing. |
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| Comments on this page are now closed. | Comments on this page are now closed. |
| Alan Turing at the Science Museum | Alan Turing at the Science Museum |
| 20 Jun 2012 | 20 Jun 2012 |
| Jon Butterworth on a new exhibition on Alan Turing that opens tomorrow at the Science Museum | Jon Butterworth on a new exhibition on Alan Turing that opens tomorrow at the Science Museum |
| 20 Jun 2012 | 20 Jun 2012 |
| 'Codebreaker – Alan Turing's life and legacy' at the Science Museum – video | 'Codebreaker – Alan Turing's life and legacy' at the Science Museum – video |
| 1 Mar 2011 | |
| The world's first multi-tasking computer - video | |
| 14 May 2012 | 14 May 2012 |
| Alan Turing: "I am building a brain." Half a century later, its successor beat Kasparov | Alan Turing: "I am building a brain." Half a century later, its successor beat Kasparov |
| 25 Nov 2011 | 25 Nov 2011 |
| Code of compassion | Code of compassion |
| Turing papers to stay in UK after 11th-hour auction bid | Turing papers to stay in UK after 11th-hour auction bid |
| 25 Feb 2011 | 25 Feb 2011 |
| Wartime papers of computer pioneer Alan Turing will stay at Bletchley Park, where he helped crack the German Enigma code | Wartime papers of computer pioneer Alan Turing will stay at Bletchley Park, where he helped crack the German Enigma code |
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| Iain Lobban laments codebreaker's 'loss to the nation' and says Britain needs new Turings to tackle cybercrime | Iain Lobban laments codebreaker's 'loss to the nation' and says Britain needs new Turings to tackle cybercrime |
| The head of GCHQ has spoken with regret of the treatment of Alan Turing, the second world war codebreaker and mathematical genius, who killed himself in 1954, two years after being convicted of homosexuality, which was then a criminal offence. | The head of GCHQ has spoken with regret of the treatment of Alan Turing, the second world war codebreaker and mathematical genius, who killed himself in 1954, two years after being convicted of homosexuality, which was then a criminal offence. |
| In a rare speech to mark the centenary of Turing's birth, Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks, and it was his job to set them to work in the world of secret intelligence, "not to tell them how to live their lives". | In a rare speech to mark the centenary of Turing's birth, Iain Lobban said the unique people the country needed were often mavericks, and it was his job to set them to work in the world of secret intelligence, "not to tell them how to live their lives". |
| Lobban told an audience in Leeds that Turing was a national asset whose death robbed the country of "one of our greatest minds". He said more people like Turing were needed if Britain was to stay ahead of the challenges and dangers posed from cyberspace. | Lobban told an audience in Leeds that Turing was a national asset whose death robbed the country of "one of our greatest minds". He said more people like Turing were needed if Britain was to stay ahead of the challenges and dangers posed from cyberspace. |
| "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." | "We can't rewrite the past," he said. "We can't wish mid-20th century Britain into a different society with different attitudes. We can be glad that we live in a more tolerant age. And we should remember that the cost of intolerance towards Alan Turing was his loss to the nation." |
| In 2009 the then prime minister, Gordon Brown, apologised for the treatment and vilification Turing received. | In 2009 the then prime minister, Gordon Brown, apologised for the treatment and vilification Turing received. |
| Turing was a central member of the team at Bletchley Park, the code-breaking centre that played a significant role during the 1940s, unravelling encrypted communications used by the Nazis. He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. | Turing was a central member of the team at Bletchley Park, the code-breaking centre that played a significant role during the 1940s, unravelling encrypted communications used by the Nazis. He also developed a machine that arguably became the model for the modern computer. |
| Lobban, who has been head of GCHQ, the government's electronic intelligence-gathering centre, for four years, described Turing as "a founder of the information age … One of the people whose concepts are at the heart of a technological revolution which is as far-reaching as the industrial revolution." | Lobban, who has been head of GCHQ, the government's electronic intelligence-gathering centre, for four years, described Turing as "a founder of the information age … One of the people whose concepts are at the heart of a technological revolution which is as far-reaching as the industrial revolution." |
| He added: "And of course there are many Turing stories: burying his silver bullion and then forgetting where he had buried it; chaining his mug to his radiator; cycling in his gas mask to ward off hay fever. | He added: "And of course there are many Turing stories: burying his silver bullion and then forgetting where he had buried it; chaining his mug to his radiator; cycling in his gas mask to ward off hay fever. |
| "But Turing was not an eccentric, unless you believe that there is only one way of being normal and to be otherwise is to be peculiar. Turing wasn't eccentric. He was unique." | "But Turing was not an eccentric, unless you believe that there is only one way of being normal and to be otherwise is to be peculiar. Turing wasn't eccentric. He was unique." |
| Lobban insisted today's GCHQ needed more people like him. "I strongly believe [the] agency needs the widest range of skills possible if it is to be successful, and to deny itself talent just because the person with the talent doesn't conform to a social stereotype is to starve itself of what it needs to thrive. | Lobban insisted today's GCHQ needed more people like him. "I strongly believe [the] agency needs the widest range of skills possible if it is to be successful, and to deny itself talent just because the person with the talent doesn't conform to a social stereotype is to starve itself of what it needs to thrive. |
| "Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. | "Part of my job is to continue to foster that atmosphere: to attract the very best people and harness their talents, and not allow preconceptions and stereotypes to stifle innovation and agility. I want to harness the best talent … so that they can apply themselves to the big issues of intelligence and security which challenge an organisation which simply has to remain at the cutting edge in order to survive and thrive. |
| "I want to apply and exploit their talent. In return, I think it's fair that I don't need to tell them how to live their lives." | "I want to apply and exploit their talent. In return, I think it's fair that I don't need to tell them how to live their lives." |
| Lobban said GCHQ needed to "reach beyond the university level. We must inspire schoolchildren to study maths and science. We must find tomorrow's Turings." | Lobban said GCHQ needed to "reach beyond the university level. We must inspire schoolchildren to study maths and science. We must find tomorrow's Turings." |
| He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace. | He said that if Turing was alive now, he would be working to secure the UK's interests in cyberspace. |
| "Then, the technological challenge was to stay ahead of the Germans. Today, our challenges come from the explosion in the volume of communications as well as the relentless increase in new ways of accessing and processing it. | "Then, the technological challenge was to stay ahead of the Germans. Today, our challenges come from the explosion in the volume of communications as well as the relentless increase in new ways of accessing and processing it. |
| "Then, the challenge was to secure allied codes and ciphers to prevent the enemy doing to us what we were doing to them. Today, [it is] securing cyberspace so the UK … can use it safely to develop e-government and trade." | "Then, the challenge was to secure allied codes and ciphers to prevent the enemy doing to us what we were doing to them. Today, [it is] securing cyberspace so the UK … can use it safely to develop e-government and trade." |
| Lobban also used the speech to explode some of the myths about Bletchley Park, particularly regarding the Enigma machine, which was used by the Nazis to encrypt messages. | Lobban also used the speech to explode some of the myths about Bletchley Park, particularly regarding the Enigma machine, which was used by the Nazis to encrypt messages. |
| "You have probably all seen the Hollywood version of the Enigma story," he said. "The films showing heroic sailors leaping onto sinking German submarines to recover their Enigma machines. The truth around the initial acquisition is a little more prosaic. In 1926, Edward Travis, who later became director of GCHQ, went to Berlin and obtained an Enigma machine by the simple expedient of going to the manufacturing company and buying one." | "You have probably all seen the Hollywood version of the Enigma story," he said. "The films showing heroic sailors leaping onto sinking German submarines to recover their Enigma machines. The truth around the initial acquisition is a little more prosaic. In 1926, Edward Travis, who later became director of GCHQ, went to Berlin and obtained an Enigma machine by the simple expedient of going to the manufacturing company and buying one." |