Ruth Alexander BBC Radio 4's Law in Action "Lord of the Manor" titles are being bought at auction for thousands of pounds, provoking bitter disputes over the ownership of village greens and grass verges, and prompting campaigners to call for the abolition of feudal laws.
Alstonefield, where there's a new lord of the manor Ruth Alexander BBC Radio 4's Law in Action "Lord of the Manor" titles are being bought at auction for thousands of pounds, provoking bitter disputes over the ownership of village greens and grass verges, and prompting campaigners to call for the abolition of feudal laws.
A village in the Peak District has become an unlikely battleground between the country's old feudal laws and the modern British legal system.
A village in the Peak District has become an unlikely battleground between the country's old feudal laws and the modern British legal system.
The title of Lord of the Manor of Alstonefield was bought for £10,000 in 1999 by a business in Wales.
The title of Lord of the Manor of Alstonefield was bought for £10,000 in 1999 by a business in Wales.
That business is owned by Mark Roberts, who also styles himself Lord Marcher of Trelleck, another title his company owns. It owns 60 titles in all.
That business is owned by Mark Roberts, who also styles himself Lord Marcher of Trelleck, another title his company owns. It owns 60 titles in all.
It's been absolutely horrendous for ordinary families living within this situation Sue FowlerParish councillor, Alstonefield He claims ownership of grass verges and commons in Alstonefield, but the parish council has disputed this claim, saying it has an old legal document to prove a previous lord of the manor gave up rights to this land in the 1800s.
It's been absolutely horrendous for ordinary families living within this situation Sue FowlerParish councillor, Alstonefield He claims ownership of grass verges and commons in Alstonefield, but the parish council has disputed this claim, saying it has an old legal document to prove a previous lord of the manor gave up rights to this land in the 1800s.
Mr Roberts initially had a caution put against first registration of the title across a 25,000-acre area covering the ancient parish, to make sure no-one else registered a lord of the manor title for the same area.
Mr Roberts initially had a caution put against first registration of the title across a 25,000-acre area covering the ancient parish, to make sure no-one else registered a lord of the manor title for the same area.
LORD OF THE MANOR Title arose in feudal system after Norman ConquestEstates of land called manors were still owned by the king But they were handed to the (mostly Norman) lords in return for military serviceThey were all-powerful over the peasants who worked the landToday people can call themselves 'Lords of... ' but the Passport Agency does not recognise themChris Eubank is Lord of the Manor of Brighton But it had the unintended effect of stopping house sales because lenders and buyers were made aware that someone had some sort of claim or interest in the area of land.
LORD OF THE MANOR Title arose in feudal system after Norman ConquestEstates of land called manors were still owned by the king But they were handed to the (mostly Norman) lords in return for military serviceThey were all-powerful over the peasants who worked the landToday people can call themselves 'Lords of... ' but the Passport Agency does not recognise themChris Eubank is Lord of the Manor of Brighton But it had the unintended effect of stopping house sales because lenders and buyers were made aware that someone had some sort of claim or interest in the area of land.
Some villagers also found they didn't have right of way into their properties, as Mr Roberts was claiming ownership of grass verges, and they ended up paying him for access. In one case, a resident paid £15,000 for land next to his house.
Some villagers also found they didn't have right of way into their properties, as Mr Roberts was claiming ownership of grass verges, and they ended up paying him for access. In one case, a resident paid £15,000 for land next to his house.
"It's been absolutely horrendous for ordinary families living within this situation," says Sue Fowler, a parish councillor in Alstonefield, who believes Mr Roberts is imposing 11th Century laws on a 21st Century community.
"It's been absolutely horrendous for ordinary families living within this situation," says Sue Fowler, a parish councillor in Alstonefield, who believes Mr Roberts is imposing 11th Century laws on a 21st Century community.
"I think it's about time we made it a criminal offence to make money in such a way."
"I think it's about time we made it a criminal offence to make money in such a way."
Arguments
Arguments
A similar situation arose in a village near Newport in Wales, Peterstone Wentloog, where Mr Roberts is also lord of the manor.
A similar situation arose in a village near Newport in Wales, Peterstone Wentloog, where Mr Roberts is also lord of the manor.
Then in 2005, the law changed so that no-one can charge a person for accessing their property via common land any more, as long as they can show they have been doing so for 20 years or more.
Then in 2005, the law changed so that no-one can charge a person for accessing their property via common land any more, as long as they can show they have been doing so for 20 years or more.
Roberts denies causing a nuisanceThis change put an end to the practice, but in Alstonefield the arguments continued, despite the fact the caution had been lifted.
Roberts denies causing a nuisanceThis change put an end to the practice, but in Alstonefield the arguments continued, despite the fact the caution had been lifted.
Mr Roberts claimed ownership of common land too, which includes several greens. He said he would lease the land to the parish council for a nominal sum. But the council refused as that would effectively recognise him as landowner.
Mr Roberts claimed ownership of common land too, which includes several greens. He said he would lease the land to the parish council for a nominal sum. But the council refused as that would effectively recognise him as landowner.
Instead, the council applied for village green status so it could protect the villagers' free use of the land, no matter who owned it.
Instead, the council applied for village green status so it could protect the villagers' free use of the land, no matter who owned it.
The lord objected and a public inquiry was called, at a cost to the parish council of £16,000. Earlier this month, Staffordshire County Council granted village green status to just four of Alstonefield's many grassy areas. That means the arguments could continue over more than 10 other pieces of land.
The lord objected and a public inquiry was called, at a cost to the parish council of £16,000. Earlier this month, Staffordshire County Council granted village green status to just four of Alstonefield's many grassy areas. That means the arguments could continue over more than 10 other pieces of land.
"We do not buy titles. We buy manors, which are the oldest form of landed estate," says Mr Roberts.
"We do not buy titles. We buy manors, which are the oldest form of landed estate," says Mr Roberts.
"We buy these old landed estates for the land including demesne agricultural land, pasture land, quarries, common land, waste land and foreshore that go with them, which we manage in a traditional way as any other major landowner does and has done over the last 1,000 years.
"We buy these old landed estates for the land including demesne agricultural land, pasture land, quarries, common land, waste land and foreshore that go with them, which we manage in a traditional way as any other major landowner does and has done over the last 1,000 years.
"We are in essence akin to a small version of the Crown Estate or Duchy of Cornwall Estate."
"We are in essence akin to a small version of the Crown Estate or Duchy of Cornwall Estate."
Seven years of confusion have engulfed Alstonefield
Seven years of confusion have engulfed Alstonefield
Scores of titles are bought and sold every year. Often people buy them for fun, like ex-boxer Chris Eubank, but some people see a business opportunity.
Scores of titles are bought and sold every year. Often people buy them for fun, like ex-boxer Chris Eubank, but some people see a business opportunity.
This is entirely legal and there is no doubt the titles can be valuable. As well as rights to land like wastes and commons, they can also give the holder rights over land.
This is entirely legal and there is no doubt the titles can be valuable. As well as rights to land like wastes and commons, they can also give the holder rights over land.
For example, mineral rights, hunting and fishing rights, the right to hold a market - even the right to a beached whale, should one wash up in your manor.
For example, mineral rights, hunting and fishing rights, the right to hold a market - even the right to a beached whale, should one wash up in your manor.
However, it can be difficult to exercise feudal rights in today's legal landscape. For example, you cannot build a mine without planning permission and the mining of gold, silver and oil are subject to statutory restrictions.
However, it can be difficult to exercise feudal rights in today's legal landscape. For example, you cannot build a mine without planning permission and the mining of gold, silver and oil are subject to statutory restrictions.
Campaigners around the country, as well as some politicians and legal professionals, say manorial rights are anachronistic and ought to be abolished.
Campaigners around the country, as well as some politicians and legal professionals, say manorial rights are anachronistic and ought to be abolished.
People are looking at these rights for personal gain Judith BrayLand law expert
People are looking at these rights for personal gain Judith BrayLand law expert
"This is a long way from the feudal system in the 13th Century," says Judith Bray, a land law expert from Buckingham University.
"This is a long way from the feudal system in the 13th Century," says Judith Bray, a land law expert from Buckingham University.
"People are looking at these rights for personal gain and for business opportunities. They no longer have the reciprocal duties that they owed in the 13th Century. It is now an opportunity to exploit their position."
"People are looking at these rights for personal gain and for business opportunities. They no longer have the reciprocal duties that they owed in the 13th Century. It is now an opportunity to exploit their position."
She said the legal situation is very confusing because a piece of legislation in the 1920s separated manorial rights from the ownership of land.
She said the legal situation is very confusing because a piece of legislation in the 1920s separated manorial rights from the ownership of land.
It is not known how many manorial rights are even held, although the Land Registration Act 2002 set a 10-year window in which all such rights have to be registered.
It is not known how many manorial rights are even held, although the Land Registration Act 2002 set a 10-year window in which all such rights have to be registered.
Trespass
Trespass
Mark Roberts strongly rebuts any suggestion that his pursuit of manorial rights causes a nuisance.
Mark Roberts strongly rebuts any suggestion that his pursuit of manorial rights causes a nuisance.
"I have a right to protect my land against modern encroachment and trespass," he told the BBC Radio 4's Law in Action programme. "The majority of listeners would not countenance a trespass in their back garden and neither will I, no matter how big the perpetrator."
"I have a right to protect my land against modern encroachment and trespass," he told the BBC Radio 4's Law in Action programme. "The majority of listeners would not countenance a trespass in their back garden and neither will I, no matter how big the perpetrator."
The Law Commission in England and Wales is considering a project to abolish feudal land law, acknowledging the remnants cause "uncertainty" to the public, legal professionals and the courts. But any such project would not include a review of manorial rights.
The Law Commission in England and Wales is considering a project to abolish feudal land law, acknowledging the remnants cause "uncertainty" to the public, legal professionals and the courts. But any such project would not include a review of manorial rights.
Law in Action will be broadcast on Tuesday 31 July on BBC Radio 4 at 1600 BST.
Law in Action will be broadcast on Tuesday 31 July on BBC Radio 4 at 1600 BST.
Add your comments on this story, using the form below.
Add your comments on this story, using the form below.
I see a company that has found a cheeky loophole and a way to make an easy buck. Good luck I say, I wish I had thought of that. What I don't get is the resident who paid £15,000 quid for a bit of land down the side of their property. Why didn't they just buy the title and save a few quid or all the locals get together and buy it. Doh!!!Colin, Leeds
I see a company that has found a cheeky loophole and a way to make an easy buck. Good luck I say, I wish I had thought of that. What I don't get is the resident who paid £15,000 quid for a bit of land down the side of their property. Why didn't they just buy the title and save a few quid or all the locals get together and buy it. Doh!!!Colin, Leeds
Paying for right of access is pretty normal, the council will charge you for that right when the land belongs to them. As long as any changes limiting the rights of land owners also apply to the councils.. then i would agree with it. :)Timothy O'Brien, Thatcham
Paying for right of access is pretty normal, the council will charge you for that right when the land belongs to them. As long as any changes limiting the rights of land owners also apply to the councils.. then i would agree with it. :)Timothy O'Brien, Thatcham
It could only happen in the great democracy we call England. Give ALL these titled deeds to the National Trust. It's the only JUST way to deal with this. We cannot continue Thacherite ideals, look at our roads and housing, a bloody mess caused by greed and government idleness. Mike Preston, Blackpool, UK
It could only happen in the great democracy we call England. Give ALL these titled deeds to the National Trust. It's the only JUST way to deal with this. We cannot continue Thacherite ideals, look at our roads and housing, a bloody mess caused by greed and government idleness. Mike Preston, Blackpool, UK
The problem of these people buying titles would not come about had the owner of those titles not put them up for sale. If the original landowners hadn't been greedy and put them up for sale then perhaps the purchasers wouldn't have got their hands on them in the first place. Out of all the people that are bleating on about their rights etc how many of them wouldn't do exactly the same thing should they be in the same position. It really smacks of double standardsKaren Shield, Swaton, Lincolnshire
The problem of these people buying titles would not come about had the owner of those titles not put them up for sale. If the original landowners hadn't been greedy and put them up for sale then perhaps the purchasers wouldn't have got their hands on them in the first place. Out of all the people that are bleating on about their rights etc how many of them wouldn't do exactly the same thing should they be in the same position. It really smacks of double standardsKaren Shield, Swaton, Lincolnshire
There is a fairly simple way to make this less of a viable option.The locals should embrace the fact they have a lord, and make use of his services.1: For minor issues on the manor, enforce your right for the lord to hear your case in the "Manorial Court" a forum for dealing with the day to day running of the Manor, which he must provide at his expense. The lord MUST also ensure all tenants are informed of the details of the manorial courts.2: Ensure the lord is keeping proper records of all tenures, eg numbers of chickens, goats cattle etc (this is a required duty)The added expense of running these tasks as well as the many others that a Lord is required to provide would make the fact of having this title more trouble than it is worth.Mark Scott, Camberley Surrey.
There is a fairly simple way to make this less of a viable option.The locals should embrace the fact they have a lord, and make use of his services.1: For minor issues on the manor, enforce your right for the lord to hear your case in the "Manorial Court" a forum for dealing with the day to day running of the Manor, which he must provide at his expense. The lord MUST also ensure all tenants are informed of the details of the manorial courts.2: Ensure the lord is keeping proper records of all tenures, eg numbers of chickens, goats cattle etc (this is a required duty)The added expense of running these tasks as well as the many others that a Lord is required to provide would make the fact of having this title more trouble than it is worth.Mark Scott, Camberley Surrey.
