Should Rihanna be duetting with Chris Brown? | Bim Adewunmi and Kieran Yates

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/16/rihanna-duet-chris-brown

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She is the most downloaded artist ever, but pop star Rihanna is never far from controversy – whether for her explicit performances or her latest outfit. Now she's created another storm by duetting on her new album, Unapologetic, with Chris Brown, who was convicted of assaulting her in 2009, when she was dating him. The song, called Nobody's Business, is about never-ending love. Feminist commentator Bim Adewunmi and music writer Kieran Yates discuss what is behind the move. Homa Khaleeli listens in.

Homa Khaleeli: How did you feel about Rihanna duetting with Chris Brown?

Bim Adewunmi: The scary thing is that I am not shocked at all. And I think we should be. A woman who was assaulted in the public eye by a well known man, is now duetting with him – and it's not even a surprise.

Kieran Yates: After the assault there was public pressure on Rihanna to make an explicit statement about domestic violence and campaign for the most vulnerable women in society. And she didn't do that. So this made the duet less surprising. But to me, this is a woman who is trying to take events into her own hands, however problematic that might be. I also wonder to what extent she is trying to legitimise to herself what happened by making this album and making sense of it. The song is an uncomfortable listen – it's an up-tempo track. But there is nothing that paints her as a victim.

BA: No, but however you slice it – even if it was a ballad – whatever the format, this is a man who hit you and bit you, repeatedly, and threatened you. And it wasn't a one-off. So I don't think she should have done the duet. But I'm wary of victim blaming because I don't know how I would react if I was hit by someone I love.

KY: On the one hand, it's so dangerous to blame the victim for their abuse and how they choose to react to it, and say "what a silly little girl, she's so naive". But it's also problematic to say she's still maintaining some strength as a woman [by doing this track], because that also sends out a difficult message. There is this notion that in the "urban" music scene, women have to be "sassy" – be strong and independent – and I wonder how much of this [the duet and renewed contact with Brown] is a way of reclaiming that. I do agree this isn't the best thing for her to have done, but she is creating an important narrative with her behaviour, because people don't deal with domestic violence in a clear-cut way.

BA: Other women in the music industry have been hit before. And men in the industry have hit them. This time there was a massive uproar because we saw the pictures and the violence was so visible. But it is also true that if she had been Taylor Swift, the mainstream media would have killed Brown. There is a special interest not only because Rihanna and Brown are high-profile, but also because he was a black man and she is a black woman.

KY: Yes, I think if it had been someone like Swift there is no way there would be this collective amnesia, and no way his album would go to No 1. No way he would be getting awards. And it's certainly not down to the argument that his music is so great that it transcends what happens! But he is still getting coverage and reviews. He is still very visible and still celebrated. To see him being No 1 sends such a dangerous message.

BA: Rihanna is still a very young woman and is in a bubble. There is a production line all albums go through – did no one think: "Maybe this is not the best thing for her?" Did no one think about the message this collaboration was giving out? They both have a broad demographic they sell to – many are young people. Why didn't anyone question it? I went to see a romantic comedy Brown was in recently, and the teenage girls in front of me screamed every time he was on screen. This man is guilty of domestic abuse – we all saw the pictures – but after all that these girls still squealed with delight like he was in One Direction. These are the people buying his records and it doesn't bother them what he has done. I was at an event when teenage girls were talking about the attack and one said, "Maybe she said something," and another said, "I heard she has a mouth on her." My mouth was hanging open in shock. So really Brown and Rihanna's relationship reflects problems we already have.

KY: But it's also true you would never get a black female artist marketed in the same way as Swift – as the nation's sweetheart. Black female artists are either marketed as sassy, independent women, or like X factor winners – who have nothing to say and are blank.

BA: The Rihanna package is that she is this sexually aggressive woman. I think her image has been hijacked from her. Beyoncé is massive, but we don't know jack about her life – it's carefully edited and everything is on her own terms.

KY: There's this idea that Rihanna is in control – and that's why she made this album. That's why she tweets about smoking weed and Instagrams a shot of a stripper between her thighs, because we are supposed to think: "She's so crazy, she does whatever she wants." As someone from the outside looking in, it doesn't seem like she is really doing what she wants to do.

BA: I am happy our culture is more accepting of women expressing their sexuality and desires. But at the same time, she is selling to seven-year-olds. I love Rude Boy – I think it's hilarious, but it's problematic that it is marketed to children.

KY: I am shocked and excited and thrilled that Rihanna is talking about female pleasure – what she wants to be excited. But I find it difficult the way her sexuality is marketed.

BA: It's like the way Natasha Walters in Living Dolls says that for many women sex has become a performance – and she links this to the rise of porn. She thinks women are not having sex for their own pleasure but to show the "tricks" they can do to please men – and that's the Rihanna experience for me. For me the real problem is not that she is sexual, but this idea that it is all a performance; a performance for men rather than empowering women.

KY: Beyoncé was part of a female group so we equate her with female collectivism and we see her talking about loving her fellow women. I don't see that with Rihanna. Rihanna was generic until she was given her new, sexually aggressive look, and it was only then that she became a huge star. With Beyoncé, it felt like on her own terms.

HK: So do you think Rihanna is a bad influence on young women?

KY: She's great for showing us how much further we have to go – how much further women in pop have to go and how much the patriarchy is very much at work in the industry. But I still think she is a strong woman despite all that's happened, and her voice should be heard. Whereas I don't want to be part of a culture that buys into Chris Brown. I don't want him to be visible.