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| Atheism, faith and promoting ethical values | Atheism, faith and promoting ethical values |
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| The news from the census that religious observance is in decline offers an important opportunity for the British Humanist Society, as Polly Toynbee notes (Atheists are better for politics than believers. Here's why, 14 December). But it is not to celebrate atheism. Humanism is not simply secularism; its animating purpose is to insist that morality does not need God, but springs from our ability as human beings to reason, to empathise and to make self-determined choices on how we live. | The news from the census that religious observance is in decline offers an important opportunity for the British Humanist Society, as Polly Toynbee notes (Atheists are better for politics than believers. Here's why, 14 December). But it is not to celebrate atheism. Humanism is not simply secularism; its animating purpose is to insist that morality does not need God, but springs from our ability as human beings to reason, to empathise and to make self-determined choices on how we live. |
| This is a fragile view in society at large – it is one of the reasons why (as the census shows) so many people hang on to a religious self-identity even after their faith has gone. But it is more vital than ever, for without it the decline of religion (which has successfully instilled a widespread view that the only source of ethics must be God) risks leading to a decline in universal moral grounding. In a dominant economic culture in which immoral and amoral behaviour are standard – look at bankers' pay and corporate tax evasion – it is vital that children grow up infused by moral thought. | This is a fragile view in society at large – it is one of the reasons why (as the census shows) so many people hang on to a religious self-identity even after their faith has gone. But it is more vital than ever, for without it the decline of religion (which has successfully instilled a widespread view that the only source of ethics must be God) risks leading to a decline in universal moral grounding. In a dominant economic culture in which immoral and amoral behaviour are standard – look at bankers' pay and corporate tax evasion – it is vital that children grow up infused by moral thought. |
| In recent years public atheists have focused on attacking religion and its role in public life. But under its new president, Professor Jim Al-Khalili, the BHA has a more important goal: to promote ethical value systems in a society losing religious belief. In doing so they may find themselves in surprising common cause with progressive people of faith. Michael Jacobs Co-editor, The Political Quarterly | In recent years public atheists have focused on attacking religion and its role in public life. But under its new president, Professor Jim Al-Khalili, the BHA has a more important goal: to promote ethical value systems in a society losing religious belief. In doing so they may find themselves in surprising common cause with progressive people of faith. Michael Jacobs Co-editor, The Political Quarterly |
| • Polly Toynbee claims the census shows that "atheism was the second-largest block" in the figures relating to religion. In fact, the second-largest block (25%) was those of "no religion". To suggest that those who marked themselves as having "no religion" were convinced atheists is a presumption too far and not backed up by the evidence. According to the census, 29,267 people self-identified as atheists and 15,067 people as humanist. Given the membership of the National Secularist Society is about 5,000 and the BHA about 25,000, these combined figures are a rise but not quite the rise Polly is suggesting. | • Polly Toynbee claims the census shows that "atheism was the second-largest block" in the figures relating to religion. In fact, the second-largest block (25%) was those of "no religion". To suggest that those who marked themselves as having "no religion" were convinced atheists is a presumption too far and not backed up by the evidence. According to the census, 29,267 people self-identified as atheists and 15,067 people as humanist. Given the membership of the National Secularist Society is about 5,000 and the BHA about 25,000, these combined figures are a rise but not quite the rise Polly is suggesting. |
| England is not "this most secular country", as Polly claims. The census shows more than 60% of the English self-identify as Christian and more than two-thirds of people in England declared a self-identity in relation to faith. Faith groups are often accused of ignoring the facts or the evidence. Polly's article demonstrates that that accusation is not one to be aimed at faith groups alone. Rev Arun Arora Director of communications, Archbishops' Council | England is not "this most secular country", as Polly claims. The census shows more than 60% of the English self-identify as Christian and more than two-thirds of people in England declared a self-identity in relation to faith. Faith groups are often accused of ignoring the facts or the evidence. Polly's article demonstrates that that accusation is not one to be aimed at faith groups alone. Rev Arun Arora Director of communications, Archbishops' Council |
| • In declaring "good and bad is spread randomly among humanity regardless of faith", Polly Toynbee is too generous to religion. Christopher Hitchens offered the following challenge: "Name good words spoken or good deeds performed by a person of faith that could not equally come from an atheist." No answer comes. Then: "Name a wicked thing spoken or deed done by a person of faith in the name of their faith." Everyone can instantly conjure up a host of examples. Atheists may do wicked things – but not in "the name of atheism". This is a crucial distinction, leaving religion with a heavy responsibility. Rob Meggs Hartlepool | • In declaring "good and bad is spread randomly among humanity regardless of faith", Polly Toynbee is too generous to religion. Christopher Hitchens offered the following challenge: "Name good words spoken or good deeds performed by a person of faith that could not equally come from an atheist." No answer comes. Then: "Name a wicked thing spoken or deed done by a person of faith in the name of their faith." Everyone can instantly conjure up a host of examples. Atheists may do wicked things – but not in "the name of atheism". This is a crucial distinction, leaving religion with a heavy responsibility. Rob Meggs Hartlepool |
| • Polly Toynbee is wrong to claim she has no religion; she has a belief system like everyone else. What is "knowing the here and now is all there is" but a robust assertion of belief? I would say that being able to clearly specify "all there is" is, at present, beyond us, as Prof Al-Khalili knows very well. She is wrong to imply that "the Abrahamic faiths [have an intrinsic] disgust for sex and women": many Christians today point out that when one troubles to read the New Testament without anachronism, the equality of men and women stands out. | • Polly Toynbee is wrong to claim she has no religion; she has a belief system like everyone else. What is "knowing the here and now is all there is" but a robust assertion of belief? I would say that being able to clearly specify "all there is" is, at present, beyond us, as Prof Al-Khalili knows very well. She is wrong to imply that "the Abrahamic faiths [have an intrinsic] disgust for sex and women": many Christians today point out that when one troubles to read the New Testament without anachronism, the equality of men and women stands out. |
| On the right to die, the main stumbling block is not religious doctrine but the well-founded fear of undue pressure on the old or infirm by their heirs. And saying as she does that Christian influence is a "cultural relic" only makes me suspect that she is culturally illiterate. Chris Jeynes Guildford, Surrey | On the right to die, the main stumbling block is not religious doctrine but the well-founded fear of undue pressure on the old or infirm by their heirs. And saying as she does that Christian influence is a "cultural relic" only makes me suspect that she is culturally illiterate. Chris Jeynes Guildford, Surrey |
| • Ms Toynbee sounds increasingly like those extreme faith adherents who most of us regard as thoroughly misguided. The ultimate position of faith communities is there is meaning in the universe, and all human beings – including atheists – are precious in God's sight. | • Ms Toynbee sounds increasingly like those extreme faith adherents who most of us regard as thoroughly misguided. The ultimate position of faith communities is there is meaning in the universe, and all human beings – including atheists – are precious in God's sight. |
| As for politics, many Christians are wholly committed to addressing injustice and inequality in our world, and are on the frontline of battling those responsible (see Giles Fraser on liberation theology, Loose canon, 15 December). This Christian is looking forward to addressing the local humanists next month on "All in this together? How people of faith and none can work together for justice and equality". | As for politics, many Christians are wholly committed to addressing injustice and inequality in our world, and are on the frontline of battling those responsible (see Giles Fraser on liberation theology, Loose canon, 15 December). This Christian is looking forward to addressing the local humanists next month on "All in this together? How people of faith and none can work together for justice and equality". |
| Maybe Polly will be more accessible to reason and experience when she steps down as president of the BHA. Meanwhile, I wish Professor Al-Khalili well as he takes over that position, and would look forward to working with him on any issue where we could find common ground, were there ever the opportunity. Rev David Haslam Evesham, Worcestershire | Maybe Polly will be more accessible to reason and experience when she steps down as president of the BHA. Meanwhile, I wish Professor Al-Khalili well as he takes over that position, and would look forward to working with him on any issue where we could find common ground, were there ever the opportunity. Rev David Haslam Evesham, Worcestershire |
| • Polly Toynbee argues that atheists are better for politics than believers. The crux of her argument rests on her own belief that "humans do have a hardwired moral sense, every child born with an instinct for justice". | • Polly Toynbee argues that atheists are better for politics than believers. The crux of her argument rests on her own belief that "humans do have a hardwired moral sense, every child born with an instinct for justice". |
| Toynbee seems to forget that this humanist ideology was buried 50 years ago in 1963 when participants in Stanley Milgram's famous study into Nazi evil killed each other with lethal electric shocks (happily, the victims were just acting). As far as I know, the scientists who gave the orders to administer the punishment were not dressed as priests. | Toynbee seems to forget that this humanist ideology was buried 50 years ago in 1963 when participants in Stanley Milgram's famous study into Nazi evil killed each other with lethal electric shocks (happily, the victims were just acting). As far as I know, the scientists who gave the orders to administer the punishment were not dressed as priests. |
| No one belief group should have a monopoly on public moral issues, atheist or otherwise. Arthur Piper Nottingham | No one belief group should have a monopoly on public moral issues, atheist or otherwise. Arthur Piper Nottingham |
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