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| What's wrong with Italy: Your views ahead of the election | What's wrong with Italy: Your views ahead of the election |
| (about 1 month later) | |
| With the Italian elections coming up our Rome correspondent Lizzy Davies looked at some of Italy's problems the new elected leader will face. We asked for your input, with many Italian commenters coming forward with other problems Italy's government should tackle as well as thoughts on the issues our correspondent put forward. Here is a round up of some of the responses, or add yours to the comment thread here. | With the Italian elections coming up our Rome correspondent Lizzy Davies looked at some of Italy's problems the new elected leader will face. We asked for your input, with many Italian commenters coming forward with other problems Italy's government should tackle as well as thoughts on the issues our correspondent put forward. Here is a round up of some of the responses, or add yours to the comment thread here. |
| Justice system: | Justice system: |
| rightwinggit said: | rightwinggit said: |
| I would say the justice system. Not because the other problems aren't as serious, if not more so, but because it is something the government could change swiftly without having to spend too much money. Many of the other problems cannot easily be solved because of the justice system. Deal with the justice system and delaing with organised crime, bureaucratic inertia, and the political system becomes easier. The slow justice system was deliberately exploited by Berlusconi to avoid facing criminal charges and prolong his periods in office for example. | I would say the justice system. Not because the other problems aren't as serious, if not more so, but because it is something the government could change swiftly without having to spend too much money. Many of the other problems cannot easily be solved because of the justice system. Deal with the justice system and delaing with organised crime, bureaucratic inertia, and the political system becomes easier. The slow justice system was deliberately exploited by Berlusconi to avoid facing criminal charges and prolong his periods in office for example. |
| goto100 responded: | goto100 responded: |
| It's odd you highlight the judicial system for reform. For all its faults, it has proven the only one (so far) capable of going after and convicting officers of the state for collusion in kidnapping, rendition and torture. A CIA station chief was convicted in absentia and sentenced to 7 years. The head and deputy head of Italy's foreign intelligence agency have received 9 and 7 year sentences for their role. They are currently appealing. | It's odd you highlight the judicial system for reform. For all its faults, it has proven the only one (so far) capable of going after and convicting officers of the state for collusion in kidnapping, rendition and torture. A CIA station chief was convicted in absentia and sentenced to 7 years. The head and deputy head of Italy's foreign intelligence agency have received 9 and 7 year sentences for their role. They are currently appealing. |
| I am aware of the great problems with Italy's legal system. I am also aware that the word "reform" is often code for "neo-liberal take over". When an entire legal system is up for grabs, I get very, very angry when neo-libs are trying to stealth-storm the castle. Are you sure you are not regurgitating their self-serving demands in that call for reform? Are you sure what those people you quote really want is total impunity for themselves - and sod the rest of it? | I am aware of the great problems with Italy's legal system. I am also aware that the word "reform" is often code for "neo-liberal take over". When an entire legal system is up for grabs, I get very, very angry when neo-libs are trying to stealth-storm the castle. Are you sure you are not regurgitating their self-serving demands in that call for reform? Are you sure what those people you quote really want is total impunity for themselves - and sod the rest of it? |
| coden: | coden: |
| @goto100 - You have certainly chosen an emblematic example of the justice mechanism at work: foreign subjects beyond Italy's control condemned, nationals given a conviction but there is no way any of them will see the inside of a prison, not because of 'Ragionne di Stato', but simply because a conviction followed by a rejection of the appeal is not considered, legally or 'culturally', to signify guilt, as it would be in comparable countries. So, Item 1, change the constitution to bring in one-stop justice (with appeal from prison, of course). Item 2, have direct election of candidates for public office. | @goto100 - You have certainly chosen an emblematic example of the justice mechanism at work: foreign subjects beyond Italy's control condemned, nationals given a conviction but there is no way any of them will see the inside of a prison, not because of 'Ragionne di Stato', but simply because a conviction followed by a rejection of the appeal is not considered, legally or 'culturally', to signify guilt, as it would be in comparable countries. So, Item 1, change the constitution to bring in one-stop justice (with appeal from prison, of course). Item 2, have direct election of candidates for public office. |
| caracaqui: | caracaqui: |
| The tourism industry, which doubtless is an important part of Italy's economy, is a joke! never ever have I been treated so badly by people who I'm giving money to as in Florence: you queue up for hours to get a ticket for the Ufizzi Gallery and then get kicked around and rudely told you can't visit certain rooms with no other explanation... won't be going back or recommending despite the wonderful artworks. | The tourism industry, which doubtless is an important part of Italy's economy, is a joke! never ever have I been treated so badly by people who I'm giving money to as in Florence: you queue up for hours to get a ticket for the Ufizzi Gallery and then get kicked around and rudely told you can't visit certain rooms with no other explanation... won't be going back or recommending despite the wonderful artworks. |
| Bladeluca: | Bladeluca: |
| Short term memory. The Italian electorate is quick to forget the endless list of wrong-doings of its political class. The real issue lies in media and information. You cannot educate a country by showing semi-naked girls in day-time programs. Berlusconi's TV bulimia has condemned Italy to ignorance and shallowness. Political action is now branded as evil and the less people care and go on about their daily lives the happier everyone is. Also, whilst in the UK an MP can face jail for blagging a speeding ticket, there are currently 36 million euro unaccounted for each year just on politician's expenses. The sheer madness of that speaks a lot about the country. | Short term memory. The Italian electorate is quick to forget the endless list of wrong-doings of its political class. The real issue lies in media and information. You cannot educate a country by showing semi-naked girls in day-time programs. Berlusconi's TV bulimia has condemned Italy to ignorance and shallowness. Political action is now branded as evil and the less people care and go on about their daily lives the happier everyone is. Also, whilst in the UK an MP can face jail for blagging a speeding ticket, there are currently 36 million euro unaccounted for each year just on politician's expenses. The sheer madness of that speaks a lot about the country. |
| Mindset: | Mindset: |
| Alessandra75: | Alessandra75: |
| What is missing on this list is: Italian Mindset and the spreading of Berlusconi philosophy. In Italy there is a strong attitude towards corruption and small criminality. People still thinks it is fine not to pay taxes because taxes are too high. It is fine not to respect rules because rules are too strict.It is fine to corrupt, because this is the way things are obtained.It is cool to be sexist because women are objects.It is fine to behave without any respect of other people because 'this is what everyone is doing!'.And this is what Berlusconi has represented for the last 19 years.He represents what lot of Italians would like to be, or how they would like to live: in total disrespect of civil rules and laws. The problem to solve is not Berlusconi, it's some Italian mindset and their attitude towards their country and society.And sadly this won't be solved by next government, but will (hopefully) take new generations and long time. | What is missing on this list is: Italian Mindset and the spreading of Berlusconi philosophy. In Italy there is a strong attitude towards corruption and small criminality. People still thinks it is fine not to pay taxes because taxes are too high. It is fine not to respect rules because rules are too strict.It is fine to corrupt, because this is the way things are obtained.It is cool to be sexist because women are objects.It is fine to behave without any respect of other people because 'this is what everyone is doing!'.And this is what Berlusconi has represented for the last 19 years.He represents what lot of Italians would like to be, or how they would like to live: in total disrespect of civil rules and laws. The problem to solve is not Berlusconi, it's some Italian mindset and their attitude towards their country and society.And sadly this won't be solved by next government, but will (hopefully) take new generations and long time. |
| mirtilo: | mirtilo: |
| @FlavioF - Im a Brit in Milan for quite a few years.. my son goes to scuola pubblica .. the education is a VERY different approach from that in the UK.. but I'm not convinced it is worse.. Its boring, thats for sure, old fashioned and rote learing compared to the curiculum in Scotland.. Although everyone assures me it is the fortune of which teacher your children find themselves with (for five years of elementary school and beyond).. | @FlavioF - Im a Brit in Milan for quite a few years.. my son goes to scuola pubblica .. the education is a VERY different approach from that in the UK.. but I'm not convinced it is worse.. Its boring, thats for sure, old fashioned and rote learing compared to the curiculum in Scotland.. Although everyone assures me it is the fortune of which teacher your children find themselves with (for five years of elementary school and beyond).. |
| I agree with the mindset.. everyone pays for too many services in "nero" (payment in cash which will be undeclared) so even i end up doing so .. because well.. everyone just does. If my gyaenocologist or dentist in one of the best areas of Milano doesnt offer a fattura (fiscal bill) and therefore you know the cash you have just given him is not going to be taxed at all.. well its just too uncomfortable to ask for it.. Plus you would have to pay the extra 20% VAT on an already hugely expensive appointment. As a straniera, you end up "fitting in" and not making a fuss.. but it does leave a bitter and guily taste.. but no, i dont think its "OK" at all.. | I agree with the mindset.. everyone pays for too many services in "nero" (payment in cash which will be undeclared) so even i end up doing so .. because well.. everyone just does. If my gyaenocologist or dentist in one of the best areas of Milano doesnt offer a fattura (fiscal bill) and therefore you know the cash you have just given him is not going to be taxed at all.. well its just too uncomfortable to ask for it.. Plus you would have to pay the extra 20% VAT on an already hugely expensive appointment. As a straniera, you end up "fitting in" and not making a fuss.. but it does leave a bitter and guily taste.. but no, i dont think its "OK" at all.. |
| canuk1: | canuk1: |
Been living in Italy for 15 years ..Yes, the 6 points you listed and detailed are very significant, however, any solution goes far beyond any policies or government. It will require a wholesale cultural and society change. The roots of the problems go back the end of WW2, when Italy was in very dire straits.A generation grew up looking to the mafia for help rather than the government, because the government was inept and the cupboards were bare. It was the mafia who siphoned off the international aid off docks and performed the 'redistribution'. The politicians were on the receiving end of the benefits, and the government was powerless to stop this, even if it wanted to. Fast-forward to today, and you have the current 2nd and 3rd generations growing up with attitudes passed down from their war-time and post-war relatives. Every Italian I have met has no use for the government, in fact, the government is the enemy, and not the mafia that is preventing them from doing want they want to do, and that is getting ahead of their neighbour. Today, an Italian is not happy unless running a scam of some sort. Most of this involves avoiding taxes and circumventing the shed load of rules, regulations and laws in the country. Neighbours are fair game for grifting a few euros out of, as well as some family members, if the opportunity arises. Men like Silvio Berlusconi are not vilfied, in fact he is deeply admired for being a 'made man'. Most Italian men aspire to be just like Berlusconi! So, how can any Italian government hope to introduce reforms in a society where generations have been essentially at war with it's own government, and where the political and industrial elite classes are some of the main beneficiaries of that war? A taxi driver in Geneva once said to me that in order for the EU to function better, each member state should swap governments for 6 months. For example, the German government does Italy, and Italian government does Germany for 6 months... What an intriguing concept ... | Been living in Italy for 15 years ..Yes, the 6 points you listed and detailed are very significant, however, any solution goes far beyond any policies or government. It will require a wholesale cultural and society change. The roots of the problems go back the end of WW2, when Italy was in very dire straits.A generation grew up looking to the mafia for help rather than the government, because the government was inept and the cupboards were bare. It was the mafia who siphoned off the international aid off docks and performed the 'redistribution'. The politicians were on the receiving end of the benefits, and the government was powerless to stop this, even if it wanted to. Fast-forward to today, and you have the current 2nd and 3rd generations growing up with attitudes passed down from their war-time and post-war relatives. Every Italian I have met has no use for the government, in fact, the government is the enemy, and not the mafia that is preventing them from doing want they want to do, and that is getting ahead of their neighbour. Today, an Italian is not happy unless running a scam of some sort. Most of this involves avoiding taxes and circumventing the shed load of rules, regulations and laws in the country. Neighbours are fair game for grifting a few euros out of, as well as some family members, if the opportunity arises. Men like Silvio Berlusconi are not vilfied, in fact he is deeply admired for being a 'made man'. Most Italian men aspire to be just like Berlusconi! So, how can any Italian government hope to introduce reforms in a society where generations have been essentially at war with it's own government, and where the political and industrial elite classes are some of the main beneficiaries of that war? A taxi driver in Geneva once said to me that in order for the EU to function better, each member state should swap governments for 6 months. For example, the German government does Italy, and Italian government does Germany for 6 months... What an intriguing concept ... |
| Amarantha Sophia: | Amarantha Sophia: |
| I'm an italian who lived in Cambridge for almost 5 years, and now I'm back in Italy since only three months. I must admit it has been shocking to see italian society from the inside once again. I totally agree with all the points of the article. I would like just to add two considerations. The first: when I was in the UK I felt I had to defend "Italians" from constant mocking originating from Berlusconi's government. My main argument was that Berlusconi was not representing Italians correctly. I was wrong. Italian politics is corrupt and incapable of reform exactly because politicians correctly represents what italians are nowadays. So, the second consideration is: there is no chance to see any serious reform in Italy until there is some kind of "sense of responsibility" in the people. I mean, a sense that the action of each individual have a social dimension. Something similar to what Italians felt during the post-war reconstruction, when two years of german invasion left a strong sense of a common destiny. Unfortunately, I don't see this feeling in people. I just see a lot of conservatism. I just see people afraid to lose their little niche of privilege rather than people desiring something new, something really new. | I'm an italian who lived in Cambridge for almost 5 years, and now I'm back in Italy since only three months. I must admit it has been shocking to see italian society from the inside once again. I totally agree with all the points of the article. I would like just to add two considerations. The first: when I was in the UK I felt I had to defend "Italians" from constant mocking originating from Berlusconi's government. My main argument was that Berlusconi was not representing Italians correctly. I was wrong. Italian politics is corrupt and incapable of reform exactly because politicians correctly represents what italians are nowadays. So, the second consideration is: there is no chance to see any serious reform in Italy until there is some kind of "sense of responsibility" in the people. I mean, a sense that the action of each individual have a social dimension. Something similar to what Italians felt during the post-war reconstruction, when two years of german invasion left a strong sense of a common destiny. Unfortunately, I don't see this feeling in people. I just see a lot of conservatism. I just see people afraid to lose their little niche of privilege rather than people desiring something new, something really new. |
| Young people and unemployment: | Young people and unemployment: |
| Lara_Tai | Lara_Tai |
| I think you should have given more space to young people issue. For many of them - and especially if they have good educational achievements, Italy doesn't really offer an opportunity of employment. Compared to the rest of European countries, we have the lowest tertiary education share among young but at the same time the highest unemployment rate among them. This contraddiction has lead in the past years to a reprise of emigration.If young people don't see a future in Italy, it is Italy in the whole to lose its own future. Last governements have done nothing for young, there aren't any social policies oriented to them (it is not a case if our young leave their parental home at the latest compared to the rest of Europe). Housing is unaffordable, the highest share of precarious work has to be found among them and especially for young women there is no really help in getting a satisfactory work/life balance. Italy is a country for old men and women (more than 60% of State resources are given to pensioneers).The worst is that this is not even an issue in this absurd national election's campain. | I think you should have given more space to young people issue. For many of them - and especially if they have good educational achievements, Italy doesn't really offer an opportunity of employment. Compared to the rest of European countries, we have the lowest tertiary education share among young but at the same time the highest unemployment rate among them. This contraddiction has lead in the past years to a reprise of emigration.If young people don't see a future in Italy, it is Italy in the whole to lose its own future. Last governements have done nothing for young, there aren't any social policies oriented to them (it is not a case if our young leave their parental home at the latest compared to the rest of Europe). Housing is unaffordable, the highest share of precarious work has to be found among them and especially for young women there is no really help in getting a satisfactory work/life balance. Italy is a country for old men and women (more than 60% of State resources are given to pensioneers).The worst is that this is not even an issue in this absurd national election's campain. |
| Londoner85: | Londoner85: |
| I am in Italian and I have been living in London for the last 6 year. I agree with the article and the comments above, however I would have add young people / migration as a massive issue for Italy. I studied in one of Italy's "top" universities (whatever that means) and 90% of my cohort has emigrated to another country since graduation. Many of them have come to the UK, but also France, Germany, US, even China and Singapore. I think it is particularly worrying that so many young Italians are leaving the country. Even more worringly, it is the fact that many of them would not want to go back to Italy. I think there is a huge impact in economics terms because lots of highly skilled Italians just leave the country and more and more, they don't go back. | I am in Italian and I have been living in London for the last 6 year. I agree with the article and the comments above, however I would have add young people / migration as a massive issue for Italy. I studied in one of Italy's "top" universities (whatever that means) and 90% of my cohort has emigrated to another country since graduation. Many of them have come to the UK, but also France, Germany, US, even China and Singapore. I think it is particularly worrying that so many young Italians are leaving the country. Even more worringly, it is the fact that many of them would not want to go back to Italy. I think there is a huge impact in economics terms because lots of highly skilled Italians just leave the country and more and more, they don't go back. |
| edcutz: | edcutz: |
| I'm a British expat living in Milan, married to an Italian (Roman), with two kids and my own business. I love the country very deeply and can't imagine ever returning to live in the UK, however it's an incredibly frustrating place to live sometimes. For me, the biggest overriding problem is that of age. I don't see any opportunities for the young and talented, and considering that your most creative years are your 20'S and 30's, this talent (of which there is an abundance in all sectors) is totally wasted, and more often than not end up abroad. This has to be the prime factor for why everything else in Italy stagnates - no innovation, no change, no progress. You have to wait till you're in your mid-40's before you get anywhere near a responsible job, and by that time your priorities have changed. This is most clearly represented in politics, which is wholly dominated by old men, who by the time they've entered office and realise how comfortable everything is (MP's renumeration and benefits in Italy are eye-watering) they are suddenly, no longer interested in reform. This age problem in turn feeds into perhaps one of the saddest realities, that despite the legendary Italian strength of "la famiglia", the country has the joint lowest birth-rate in the world. Unsurprising, given the lack of financial support or incentives to start a family. Italians in the end are incredibly pragmatic, and the low birth-rate very accurately reflects all of the current inhospitable social and economic conditions. I stick by the mantra that you get the government you deserve. But in the case of Italy, this is an incredibly bitter pill to swallow. | I'm a British expat living in Milan, married to an Italian (Roman), with two kids and my own business. I love the country very deeply and can't imagine ever returning to live in the UK, however it's an incredibly frustrating place to live sometimes. For me, the biggest overriding problem is that of age. I don't see any opportunities for the young and talented, and considering that your most creative years are your 20'S and 30's, this talent (of which there is an abundance in all sectors) is totally wasted, and more often than not end up abroad. This has to be the prime factor for why everything else in Italy stagnates - no innovation, no change, no progress. You have to wait till you're in your mid-40's before you get anywhere near a responsible job, and by that time your priorities have changed. This is most clearly represented in politics, which is wholly dominated by old men, who by the time they've entered office and realise how comfortable everything is (MP's renumeration and benefits in Italy are eye-watering) they are suddenly, no longer interested in reform. This age problem in turn feeds into perhaps one of the saddest realities, that despite the legendary Italian strength of "la famiglia", the country has the joint lowest birth-rate in the world. Unsurprising, given the lack of financial support or incentives to start a family. Italians in the end are incredibly pragmatic, and the low birth-rate very accurately reflects all of the current inhospitable social and economic conditions. I stick by the mantra that you get the government you deserve. But in the case of Italy, this is an incredibly bitter pill to swallow. |
| Alessandro76: | Alessandro76: |
| As an ex young graduate with experiences abroad, I can say that Italy is the only place where my will to work has been always frustrated. Basically there's no trust in youth. Employers are usually nor smart neither open minded enough to understand people's qualifications, and they look instead for servants. The cultural level of the whole country is going down and down, first brainwashed by Berlusconi's propaganda, now pushed by the urge to produce at all costs to meet the Troika requirements. Young qualified people has to pick up whatever job they can, usually humiliated in call centers, and always with short term contracts. Most of my friends are now living spread all over the Europe/World. I'd like to live in Italy, but as I won't fight for the basic old right to work to live and not live to work, I will happily reach them asap. | As an ex young graduate with experiences abroad, I can say that Italy is the only place where my will to work has been always frustrated. Basically there's no trust in youth. Employers are usually nor smart neither open minded enough to understand people's qualifications, and they look instead for servants. The cultural level of the whole country is going down and down, first brainwashed by Berlusconi's propaganda, now pushed by the urge to produce at all costs to meet the Troika requirements. Young qualified people has to pick up whatever job they can, usually humiliated in call centers, and always with short term contracts. Most of my friends are now living spread all over the Europe/World. I'd like to live in Italy, but as I won't fight for the basic old right to work to live and not live to work, I will happily reach them asap. |
| FrancescaTM: | FrancescaTM: |
| I would add the lack of meritocracy in the work place and resulting brain drain to the list. This is a serious issue for a country that is struggling to grow, especially because the people that are leaving are usually highly skilled and educated, which deprives the country of talents that could positively contribute to innovation, productivity and research. In my personal experience this is particularly evident in the academic/ research sector and in the professions. The lack of progress on merit and the fact that it is mostly demotivated people in their 60s at the end of their careers that still keep hold of the top professional ranks is pushing enthusiastic and capable individuals abroad. Of my personal circle of friends from university, those who left with the highest grades and the best degrees have nearly ALL left, which is saddening. The reason for this has always been lack of good opportunities and a work practice that doesn't reward quality, commitment and passion. | I would add the lack of meritocracy in the work place and resulting brain drain to the list. This is a serious issue for a country that is struggling to grow, especially because the people that are leaving are usually highly skilled and educated, which deprives the country of talents that could positively contribute to innovation, productivity and research. In my personal experience this is particularly evident in the academic/ research sector and in the professions. The lack of progress on merit and the fact that it is mostly demotivated people in their 60s at the end of their careers that still keep hold of the top professional ranks is pushing enthusiastic and capable individuals abroad. Of my personal circle of friends from university, those who left with the highest grades and the best degrees have nearly ALL left, which is saddening. The reason for this has always been lack of good opportunities and a work practice that doesn't reward quality, commitment and passion. |
| MattiaPascal: | MattiaPascal: |
| I can only say that i studied a whole life, i obtained a second level degree, i also worked twice (naturally always gratis) as internship, and now i'm unemployed.One of the most problems in Italy is the fable of "meritocracy" that for long time it has deceived us that a young graduate, son of a worker, would have the same employment opportunities of a son of a diplomat. I studied at one of the most important Univerity of Italy thanks to the efforts of my family, and there i saw with my eyes that one that they call "meritocracy". I saw some of my colleagues (with less brilliant results) to apply the same corporate whom refused my application. I think that labor reform have to begin from University with the installation of a new monitoring system. | I can only say that i studied a whole life, i obtained a second level degree, i also worked twice (naturally always gratis) as internship, and now i'm unemployed.One of the most problems in Italy is the fable of "meritocracy" that for long time it has deceived us that a young graduate, son of a worker, would have the same employment opportunities of a son of a diplomat. I studied at one of the most important Univerity of Italy thanks to the efforts of my family, and there i saw with my eyes that one that they call "meritocracy". I saw some of my colleagues (with less brilliant results) to apply the same corporate whom refused my application. I think that labor reform have to begin from University with the installation of a new monitoring system. |
| Rxxx: | Rxxx: |
| What about job insecurity for young workers (young meaning under about 40yo)? The older generation are locked into contracts and very difficult to fire (I'm not saying this is bad in itself) and the unions defend this lot and keep out the "young" folks on insecure temporary contracts. This is also a major factor in the low birth rate and women's poor employment rates (they find themselves pregnant, or even just get married, and suddenly they find there is no contract to renew). This is not a "recession" problem but has been going on for at least a decade. The law needs to protect temporary workers (implementing properly EU law would be a start) and create a system like in Iceland where if you are on a "temporary" contract with the same business for 2 years or more, you are automatically considered a permanent employee, entitled to the same job protections. (Yes, in theory, employers could just fire people after 23 months; in practice, they don't, bceaue they want to keep the good people they have trained. Unless they are pregnant.). The unions need to get it togehter and realise that unemployment, youth uinemployment and job insecurity is bad for ALL workers and stop playing into the divide and conquer trap. | What about job insecurity for young workers (young meaning under about 40yo)? The older generation are locked into contracts and very difficult to fire (I'm not saying this is bad in itself) and the unions defend this lot and keep out the "young" folks on insecure temporary contracts. This is also a major factor in the low birth rate and women's poor employment rates (they find themselves pregnant, or even just get married, and suddenly they find there is no contract to renew). This is not a "recession" problem but has been going on for at least a decade. The law needs to protect temporary workers (implementing properly EU law would be a start) and create a system like in Iceland where if you are on a "temporary" contract with the same business for 2 years or more, you are automatically considered a permanent employee, entitled to the same job protections. (Yes, in theory, employers could just fire people after 23 months; in practice, they don't, bceaue they want to keep the good people they have trained. Unless they are pregnant.). The unions need to get it togehter and realise that unemployment, youth uinemployment and job insecurity is bad for ALL workers and stop playing into the divide and conquer trap. |
| The mafia | The mafia |
| jixiang: | jixiang: |
| I think that is should be made clearer in the article that the issue of the mafia pertains mainly to Southern Italy, rather than the whole country. Yes, the mafia does business all over Italy, and even in other countries when it comes to that, but still at the street level it is only present in the South. | I think that is should be made clearer in the article that the issue of the mafia pertains mainly to Southern Italy, rather than the whole country. Yes, the mafia does business all over Italy, and even in other countries when it comes to that, but still at the street level it is only present in the South. |
| Shopkeepers are only asked to pay protection money in the South, and people are only afraid to denounce mafia activity in the South. Such things would be unthinkable anywhere in northern or central Italy. | Shopkeepers are only asked to pay protection money in the South, and people are only afraid to denounce mafia activity in the South. Such things would be unthinkable anywhere in northern or central Italy. |
| It is unfair to make it seem like the whole of Italy is infested with the mafia, and it adds to stereotypes. | It is unfair to make it seem like the whole of Italy is infested with the mafia, and it adds to stereotypes. |
| thesweeneytodd adds: | thesweeneytodd adds: |
To me, you actually left out the most shocking aspect of systemic Italian failure, the near total dominance of La Cosa Nostra in the waste management industry. True, you touched on the Mafia in the article, but their near total control of a virtually unregulated sector has left parts of Italy with near 3rd world levels of environmental destruction. | To me, you actually left out the most shocking aspect of systemic Italian failure, the near total dominance of La Cosa Nostra in the waste management industry. True, you touched on the Mafia in the article, but their near total control of a virtually unregulated sector has left parts of Italy with near 3rd world levels of environmental destruction. |
| There are vast tracts of southern Italy littered - literally - with illegal and highly toxic dumps. Any attempts by authorities to control, regulate or prosecute are usually met with extreme corruption or violence. I just watched a documentary on the subject and am still reeling from what I saw. | There are vast tracts of southern Italy littered - literally - with illegal and highly toxic dumps. Any attempts by authorities to control, regulate or prosecute are usually met with extreme corruption or violence. I just watched a documentary on the subject and am still reeling from what I saw. |
| The Vatican | The Vatican |
| silvia7: | silvia7: |
| I'm Italian and moved to the UK in 2001. I think another huge problem is the Influence of the Vatican. The way Catholicism is taught in schools makes young people more likely to follow dogmas and to not question anything. This is why Italian people often accept their politicians' doings without putting up much of a fight. From very early on we were taught to accept and not question. Attitudes here in the UK are so different, people are a lot more skeptical and love doing their own research. | I'm Italian and moved to the UK in 2001. I think another huge problem is the Influence of the Vatican. The way Catholicism is taught in schools makes young people more likely to follow dogmas and to not question anything. This is why Italian people often accept their politicians' doings without putting up much of a fight. From very early on we were taught to accept and not question. Attitudes here in the UK are so different, people are a lot more skeptical and love doing their own research. |
| Nepotism | Nepotism |
| dhc1970 added: | dhc1970 added: |
| I lived in Italy for two years which was more than enough although it is a beautiful country. This article is right about a lot but it doesn't really highlight the primary probem which is the endemic culture of nepotism. As this has been entrenched for so long and there are so many vested interests at stake the problem of Italy being a corrupt and uncompetitive country is unlikely to be solved. | I lived in Italy for two years which was more than enough although it is a beautiful country. This article is right about a lot but it doesn't really highlight the primary probem which is the endemic culture of nepotism. As this has been entrenched for so long and there are so many vested interests at stake the problem of Italy being a corrupt and uncompetitive country is unlikely to be solved. |
| Thanks for all your contributions. | Thanks for all your contributions. |
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