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Respect and polite scepticism greet Thatcher's funeral at Conservative club Respect and polite scepticism greet Thatcher's funeral at Conservative club
(about 9 hours later)
In St Paul's, carefully formulated marbles of tact were rolled out by bishop and newscaster alike. Whatever you thought of her politics … this isn't the time to talk about worldly things. In St Paul's, carefully formulated marbles of tact were rolled out by bishop and newscaster alike. Whatever you thought of her politics, this wasn't the time to talk about worldly things.
Meanwhile, in the Conservative clubs of north London, they had a congregation's courage. They didn't have to tail off; they were the party faithful and they could say what they liked.Meanwhile, in the Conservative clubs of north London, they had a congregation's courage. They didn't have to tail off; they were the party faithful and they could say what they liked.
"I don't envy the loading of the coffin," said Nigel, 74. "You've got the military types, all left-right-left-right. And your undertakers, much more casual. Somebody's going to get their hand trapped in a minute.""I don't envy the loading of the coffin," said Nigel, 74. "You've got the military types, all left-right-left-right. And your undertakers, much more casual. Somebody's going to get their hand trapped in a minute."
In Enfield, they have brilliant snooker tables. Since the most fervent Thatcherites had gone into town, the remainder shuffled between the telly and the tables, with fitting but not excessive respect for the departed, and a solid regard for the manners of snooker.In Enfield, they have brilliant snooker tables. Since the most fervent Thatcherites had gone into town, the remainder shuffled between the telly and the tables, with fitting but not excessive respect for the departed, and a solid regard for the manners of snooker.
"It may be slightly OTT," said Ben Chant, "but only slightly. She gave us a dose of medicine that we had to have. I think at the time she took over, we were as close to ungovernable as we could have been." What, as a party? "No!" he said, affronted. "As a nation. With the unions.""It may be slightly OTT," said Ben Chant, "but only slightly. She gave us a dose of medicine that we had to have. I think at the time she took over, we were as close to ungovernable as we could have been." What, as a party? "No!" he said, affronted. "As a nation. With the unions."
"It's not going to cost as much as the anti-Thatcher brigade said anyway. They dream these figures up," added Mr Hawkes, 80. He also believed Thatcher had been great for the nation, but he had no affection for the decades during which she governed. Indeed, nobody did. "I suppose from a personal point of view, the 80s enabled me to make money that I wouldn't have been able to make, with the stock market deregulation," Hawkes conceded, without gusto. "It's not going to cost as much as the anti-Thatcher brigade said anyway," added Mr Hawkes, 80. "They dream these figures up." He also believed that Thatcher had been great for the nation, but he had no affection for the decades during which she governed. Indeed, nobody did. "I suppose from a personal point of view, the 80s enabled me to make money that I wouldn't have been able to make, with the stock market deregulation," Hawkes conceded, without gusto.
"But no, it wasn't a good time. You wouldn't want any more of Arthur Scargill, would you?" It's hard to say whether there is no affection for that era because it was such a tawdry, grubby, selfish time that even the people making money out of it didn't enjoy it, or whether it's just that men – especially men of a certain age – are not keen on overt enthusiasm. There were no women in the club."But no, it wasn't a good time. You wouldn't want any more of Arthur Scargill, would you?" It's hard to say whether there is no affection for that era because it was such a tawdry, grubby, selfish time that even the people making money out of it didn't enjoy it, or whether it's just that men – especially men of a certain age – are not keen on overt enthusiasm. There were no women in the club.
"I think it's over-elaborate, myself," Ken Hubbard, 84, said between shots. "I think it's totally bad for the country that the chancellor is next door, chopping up the finances, and we're spending all this money. She was a good prime minister, and she did a lot of good for the country. But she also did lots of things that were bad for the country. Really, it tends to balance out with prime ministers." Wow. Talk about a long view. "Are we going to do the same for Tony Blair? Of course not. That's why the young people are rioting." "I think it's overelaborate, myself," Ken Hubbard, 84, said between shots. "I think it's totally bad for the country that the chancellor is next door, chopping up the finances, and we're spending all this money. She was a good prime minister, and she did a lot of good for the country. But she also did lots of things that were bad for the country. Really, it tends to balance out with prime ministers." Wow. Talk about a long view. "Are we going to do the same for Tony Blair? Of course not. That's why the young people are rioting."
The main two snooker sets adjourned: two young guys came in who work round the corner. They have a special deal, where they can be members for the snooker so long as they don't overtly say they're not Conservatives. Asked if they had any views at all about Margaret Thatcher, one said: "Best not aired in here." Which is a rum old business, even if you're lukewarm about her, to spend the day of her funeral in a Conservative club. My take-home message of the day is that a lot of people really like snooker. The main two snooker sets adjourned; two young guys came in who worked round the corner. They have a special deal, where they can be members for the snooker so long as they don't overtly say they're not Conservatives. Asked if they had any views at all about Margaret Thatcher, one said: "Best not aired in here." Which is a rum old business, even if you're lukewarm about her, to spend the day of her funeral in a Conservative club. My take-home message of the day is that a lot of people really like snooker.
"I agree with the big funeral," Nigel said later, the danger with the trapped hands having passed. "And I also think that a lot of the uproar is people objecting to the fact that she was a woman." But would they have made such a big fuss if she weren't? "I doubt it. I'm in favour of her, anyway. I get a free bus pass. That's what I'm in favour of." I protest: that was Ken Livingstone! He smiles broadly. "I'm not fussed who did it. It's handy." "I agree with the big funeral," Nigel said later. "And I also think that a lot of the uproar is people objecting to the fact that she was a woman." Would they have made such a big fuss if she weren't? "I doubt it. I'm in favour of her, anyway. I get a free bus pass. That's what I'm in favour of." I protest: that was Ken Livingstone! He smiles broadly. "I'm not fussed who did it. It's handy."
Richard Rodman, at 66, has worked for himself all his life. He thought it was over the top. He thought we couldn't afford it. He thought it was like sticking your head in a lion's mouth. "Especially when you've got children who seem to have an opinion who wasn't even alive when she was around." Maybe it doesn't matter what the diehards think; maybe the mythmaking – that we are marking an event as popular as the royal wedding – will catch on elsewhere. But I don't think so. I think a small element of a minority government has put on a gigantic, lavish show, and even its own supporters are, very politely, a bit sceptical.
Maybe it doesn't matter what the die-hards think, maybe the mythmaking – that we are marking an event as popular as the royal wedding – will catch on elsewhere. But I don't think so. I think rather a small element of a minority government has put on a gigantic, lavish show, and even its own supporters are, very politely, a little bit sceptical. Meanwhile, the Conservative club in Finchley, Thatcher's constituency, was nothing like as clubbable: closed and with no visible snooker or even pool. It struck me for a second that the whole club had been invited to the funeral proper, perhaps even the wake. What a lovely gesture that would have been, one that not even Thatcher, the live-by-your-wits, rabid possessive individualist, would have minded. But then I thought, no … if they had room at the funeral for Lech Walesa, the Finchley branch were probably just in the boozer.
Meanwhile, the Conservative club in Finchley, Thatcher's own constituency, is nothing like as clubbable, closed and with no visible snooker or even pool.
It struck me for a second that the whole club had been invited to the funeral proper; perhaps even the wake. What a lovely gesture that would have been, one that not even Thatcher, the live-by-your-wits, rabid possessive individualist would have minded. But then I thought, no … if they had room for Lech Walesa, most probably the Finchley branch are just in the boozer.