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Captain 'Winkle' Brown: Is he the greatest pilot ever? | Captain 'Winkle' Brown: Is he the greatest pilot ever? |
(about 3 hours later) | |
Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown has flown more types of aircraft than anyone in history, survived 11 crashes, interrogated high-ranking Nazis, and met everyone from wartime leader Winston Churchill to first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong. | Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown has flown more types of aircraft than anyone in history, survived 11 crashes, interrogated high-ranking Nazis, and met everyone from wartime leader Winston Churchill to first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong. |
He is a war hero in the truest sense of the word. Now aged 94, the Edinburgh-born fighter pilot says he has finally "buckled down to domestic life". | He is a war hero in the truest sense of the word. Now aged 94, the Edinburgh-born fighter pilot says he has finally "buckled down to domestic life". |
Eric 'Winkle' Brown is no ordinary aviator. | Eric 'Winkle' Brown is no ordinary aviator. |
He is part of an elite group of test pilots who took the untried - and sometimes deadly - theories of aeroplane designers down the runway and into the sky. | He is part of an elite group of test pilots who took the untried - and sometimes deadly - theories of aeroplane designers down the runway and into the sky. |
Over his career, he flew 487 different types of aircraft, a world record that is unlikely ever to be matched. | Over his career, he flew 487 different types of aircraft, a world record that is unlikely ever to be matched. |
It's a job that requires a certain type of personality, he told Radio Four's PM programme. | It's a job that requires a certain type of personality, he told Radio Four's PM programme. |
"I have a nature that doesn't panic in these situations," he said. | "I have a nature that doesn't panic in these situations," he said. |
"My brain goes very sort of cold, and very good at considering things." | "My brain goes very sort of cold, and very good at considering things." |
Nobody is without fear, he said, but there was often a casual attitude among the other pilots. | Nobody is without fear, he said, but there was often a casual attitude among the other pilots. |
"They'd say "kick your tyres, light your fires, and the last one off's a sissy". | "They'd say "kick your tyres, light your fires, and the last one off's a sissy". |
"I was not of that school at all. I always put two things down to my survival. I was always meticulous in my preparation. | "I was not of that school at all. I always put two things down to my survival. I was always meticulous in my preparation. |
"Secondly, my height - I'm only 5ft 7in - saved me because there were occasions I would have lost my legs in crashes." | "Secondly, my height - I'm only 5ft 7in - saved me because there were occasions I would have lost my legs in crashes." |
It was his height that earned him his nickname "Winkle" - short for "periwinkle", a type of small mollusc - from his colleagues. | It was his height that earned him his nickname "Winkle" - short for "periwinkle", a type of small mollusc - from his colleagues. |
"I would put my legs under the seat and curl up like a little ball in the cockpit," he said. | "I would put my legs under the seat and curl up like a little ball in the cockpit," he said. |
Captain Brown, the most decorated test pilot of all time, was also the first person ever to land a jet on an aircraft carrier in 1945. | Captain Brown, the most decorated test pilot of all time, was also the first person ever to land a jet on an aircraft carrier in 1945. |
He described the moment like being a "matchbox floating in a bath". | He described the moment like being a "matchbox floating in a bath". |
Unlikely encounters | Unlikely encounters |
Captain Brown was bitten by the flying bug at the tender age of eight, after his father, a pilot in the Royal Flying Corps during WWI, first took him up in a plane. | |
"It was a single seat bi-plane," he said. | "It was a single seat bi-plane," he said. |
"There was no second seat, but I sat on his lap and he let me handle the stick. | "There was no second seat, but I sat on his lap and he let me handle the stick. |
"It was exhilarating. You saw the earth from a completely different standpoint." | "It was exhilarating. You saw the earth from a completely different standpoint." |
It was a career that would take Captain Brown to the most unlikely of places and encounters. | It was a career that would take Captain Brown to the most unlikely of places and encounters. |
He met Churchill, and King George VI on a number of occasions. | He met Churchill, and King George VI on a number of occasions. |
He was at the liberation of Bergen Belsen concentration camp. | He was at the liberation of Bergen Belsen concentration camp. |
"What we saw was just unbelievable," he said. | "What we saw was just unbelievable," he said. |
"There were piles of bodies as high as this roof, and a lot of people walking around like zombies, no idea what was going on at all. There were just half dead. | "There were piles of bodies as high as this roof, and a lot of people walking around like zombies, no idea what was going on at all. There were just half dead. |
"They had taken a bulldozer and bulldozed the bodies into a pit. They were lying in terribly grotesque positions, arms and legs all over the place. | "They had taken a bulldozer and bulldozed the bodies into a pit. They were lying in terribly grotesque positions, arms and legs all over the place. |
"That's not what really got to me. It was this appalling stench. It still does stick in my gullet." | "That's not what really got to me. It was this appalling stench. It still does stick in my gullet." |
Unbelievable cruelty | Unbelievable cruelty |
Brigadier Glynn Hughes, who had taken control of Belsen, called on Captain Brown to interrogate the camp's two head guards because of his fluent German. | Brigadier Glynn Hughes, who had taken control of Belsen, called on Captain Brown to interrogate the camp's two head guards because of his fluent German. |
"Josef Kramer was the head guard, and responsible for the deaths of thousands of people," he said. | "Josef Kramer was the head guard, and responsible for the deaths of thousands of people," he said. |
"He didn't deny anything. He realised the game was up." | "He didn't deny anything. He realised the game was up." |
But it was the camp's 22-year-old female commander, Irma Grese, nicknamed the "beautiful beast of Belsen", that Winkle Brown described as "the worst human being I have ever met". | |
"Her cruelty in Auschwitz was unbelievable," he said. | "Her cruelty in Auschwitz was unbelievable," he said. |
"She was the one who made lampshades from the skins of prisoners and that sort of thing. | "She was the one who made lampshades from the skins of prisoners and that sort of thing. |
"The brigadier said 'ask her if she had her time over again would she do this again?'. She didn't answer. | "The brigadier said 'ask her if she had her time over again would she do this again?'. She didn't answer. |
"I was keeping at it when she suddenly leapt to her feet and said 'Heil Hitler', and sat down again. | "I was keeping at it when she suddenly leapt to her feet and said 'Heil Hitler', and sat down again. |
"We never got anything out of her at all. She didn't seem to have any feeling at all about human beings." | "We never got anything out of her at all. She didn't seem to have any feeling at all about human beings." |
Forged papers | Forged papers |
She was not the only high-profile Nazi that Winkle Brown interrogated. | She was not the only high-profile Nazi that Winkle Brown interrogated. |
He also interviewed top-ranking Nazis Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler, who set up and controlled the Nazi concentration camps. | He also interviewed top-ranking Nazis Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler, who set up and controlled the Nazi concentration camps. |
Himmler was originally captured under a false identity. | Himmler was originally captured under a false identity. |
"This chap called himself Heinrich Hitzinger. And his papers were forged. But the warrant officer kept at him and kept at him. | "This chap called himself Heinrich Hitzinger. And his papers were forged. But the warrant officer kept at him and kept at him. |
"Eventually he got mad with this thing, and he said 'I'm Heinrich Himmler'. | "Eventually he got mad with this thing, and he said 'I'm Heinrich Himmler'. |
"And the warrant officer said 'yes and I'm Julius Caesar'. | "And the warrant officer said 'yes and I'm Julius Caesar'. |
"He didn't believe him at all." | "He didn't believe him at all." |
Captain Brown described Himmler as a "snivelling coward". | Captain Brown described Himmler as a "snivelling coward". |
"He was so frightened of what would happen to him. It was all aimed at saving his own skin," he said. | "He was so frightened of what would happen to him. It was all aimed at saving his own skin," he said. |
'King of the castle' | 'King of the castle' |
Captain Brown's long career brought him into contact with another former pilot, astronaut Neil Armstrong, the first person to walk on the moon. | Captain Brown's long career brought him into contact with another former pilot, astronaut Neil Armstrong, the first person to walk on the moon. |
They later became close friends. | They later became close friends. |
"In fact when I met Neil, to my horror and embarrassment, I really didn't recognise him," he said. | "In fact when I met Neil, to my horror and embarrassment, I really didn't recognise him," he said. |
"He said 'well, I'm a naval aviator like you are and I've heard of your deck landing exploits'. | "He said 'well, I'm a naval aviator like you are and I've heard of your deck landing exploits'. |
"There we are, I'm talking to the guy who is the top dog of the lot, and he knows me and I don't recognise him. How embarrassing." | "There we are, I'm talking to the guy who is the top dog of the lot, and he knows me and I don't recognise him. How embarrassing." |
"Here was a man who touched the hand of God. And yet modest beyond words, so modest in fact that he didn't want anyone to talk about it." | "Here was a man who touched the hand of God. And yet modest beyond words, so modest in fact that he didn't want anyone to talk about it." |
But Captain Brown said he would still sooner be a test pilot than an astronaut. | But Captain Brown said he would still sooner be a test pilot than an astronaut. |
"It is a huge thrill," he said. | "It is a huge thrill," he said. |
"You're up there on your own, and you really feel like this is life. I'm the king of the castle up here. That's really what it's like." | "You're up there on your own, and you really feel like this is life. I'm the king of the castle up here. That's really what it's like." |
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