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| Matteo Renzi: 'we want to restart Italy' | Matteo Renzi: 'we want to restart Italy' |
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| With a mini-iPad the centrepiece on his antique wooden desk, Matteo Renzi sits in the Palazzo Vecchio, apparently unfazed by the steely gaze of popes and rulers past. Ensconced in his office in Florence's 14th-century town hall, he is a man steeped in history but with his eye firmly on the road ahead. "We want to restart Italy. We want Italy, which has an extraordinary, dizzying, astonishing past," he says, gesturing at the frescoed walls, "to have a future also." | With a mini-iPad the centrepiece on his antique wooden desk, Matteo Renzi sits in the Palazzo Vecchio, apparently unfazed by the steely gaze of popes and rulers past. Ensconced in his office in Florence's 14th-century town hall, he is a man steeped in history but with his eye firmly on the road ahead. "We want to restart Italy. We want Italy, which has an extraordinary, dizzying, astonishing past," he says, gesturing at the frescoed walls, "to have a future also." |
| For many Italians, Renzi is the man who should be in charge of that future – a young and energetic outsider from the centre-left who they believe might just be able to rescue the country from its dismal present. Poll after poll has him as Italy's most popular politician. But that support has not been echoed within his own Democratic party (PD), a significant portion of which regards him as an ideologically troubling upstart with an unseemly amount of ambition and a suspicious affinity with New Labour. | For many Italians, Renzi is the man who should be in charge of that future – a young and energetic outsider from the centre-left who they believe might just be able to rescue the country from its dismal present. Poll after poll has him as Italy's most popular politician. But that support has not been echoed within his own Democratic party (PD), a significant portion of which regards him as an ideologically troubling upstart with an unseemly amount of ambition and a suspicious affinity with New Labour. |
| On Tuesday, as Giorgio Napolitano, Italy's reluctantly re-elected 87-year-old president, carried out frantic negotiations aimed at producing an as yet elusive government, Renzi's name was the one which, though previously deemed by many unlikely, stood out among those touted for the premiership. | On Tuesday, as Giorgio Napolitano, Italy's reluctantly re-elected 87-year-old president, carried out frantic negotiations aimed at producing an as yet elusive government, Renzi's name was the one which, though previously deemed by many unlikely, stood out among those touted for the premiership. |
| The man widely believed to be the president's favourite is Giuliano Amato, the 74-year-old former prime minister, while Enrico Letta, vice-secretary of the PD, was also deemed a possibility. In an indication of his cross-spectrum appeal, Renzi was mentioned by elements not only of the PD but also Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right PdL. But in an indication, also, of the concern he raises in the camp of the three-times prime minister, Berlusconi was reported to have opposed the backing of a man he views as being his most formidable future opponent. | The man widely believed to be the president's favourite is Giuliano Amato, the 74-year-old former prime minister, while Enrico Letta, vice-secretary of the PD, was also deemed a possibility. In an indication of his cross-spectrum appeal, Renzi was mentioned by elements not only of the PD but also Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right PdL. But in an indication, also, of the concern he raises in the camp of the three-times prime minister, Berlusconi was reported to have opposed the backing of a man he views as being his most formidable future opponent. |
| It was in this climate of heightened speculation and uncertainty that the 38-year-old, who, in Italy's ageing political class, would make a startlingly and almost indecently young occupant of Palazzo Chigi, gave an interview to the Guardian and partner newspapers from France, Italy, Germany, Poland and Spain. Insisting he did not know what, if any, role he would play in the next government, he said the most important thing was that, after two months of stalemate, a "government of common sense" was formed – and fast. | It was in this climate of heightened speculation and uncertainty that the 38-year-old, who, in Italy's ageing political class, would make a startlingly and almost indecently young occupant of Palazzo Chigi, gave an interview to the Guardian and partner newspapers from France, Italy, Germany, Poland and Spain. Insisting he did not know what, if any, role he would play in the next government, he said the most important thing was that, after two months of stalemate, a "government of common sense" was formed – and fast. |
| "I have joked that if the Vatican had had the same electoral law as Italy, there would have been four cardinals saying: 'I am the pope. I won'," he said, referring to the other election that has dominated the country this year. "It was rather embarrassing that the elections took place on 24 and 25 February; in the Vatican the sede vacante started on 28 February. Italy still doesn't have government and the Catholic church – not a model of speed – has managed not only to get a new government [Pope Francis] but to profoundly change tone and approach." | "I have joked that if the Vatican had had the same electoral law as Italy, there would have been four cardinals saying: 'I am the pope. I won'," he said, referring to the other election that has dominated the country this year. "It was rather embarrassing that the elections took place on 24 and 25 February; in the Vatican the sede vacante started on 28 February. Italy still doesn't have government and the Catholic church – not a model of speed – has managed not only to get a new government [Pope Francis] but to profoundly change tone and approach." |
| It is precisely this kind of profound change that Renzi – who is a practising Catholic as well as a zealous Fiorentina supporter and evangelical exponent of Twitter – says Italy needs. He wants to see the next government cut Italy's fiendishly complex bureaucracy, take urgent steps to reduce unemployment, particularly among the young, fight corruption and tax evasion, invest more in technology, improve childcare, promote a new culture of innovation and forge deeper European ties. He declares himself to be a proud believer in a "United States of Europe". | It is precisely this kind of profound change that Renzi – who is a practising Catholic as well as a zealous Fiorentina supporter and evangelical exponent of Twitter – says Italy needs. He wants to see the next government cut Italy's fiendishly complex bureaucracy, take urgent steps to reduce unemployment, particularly among the young, fight corruption and tax evasion, invest more in technology, improve childcare, promote a new culture of innovation and forge deeper European ties. He declares himself to be a proud believer in a "United States of Europe". |
| He backed much of the budget rigour of Mario Monti's technocratic government, but warns that austerity on its own will do little to help Italy out of its long-term economic stagnation. "For too many years, Italy spent badly and spent too much. So the call to put our accounts in order was right," he says. "That said, the idea today of an austerity without reforms and without growth is very dangerous … Italy is going through a difficult period, but to think you can get out of this phase with just austerity is wrong." | He backed much of the budget rigour of Mario Monti's technocratic government, but warns that austerity on its own will do little to help Italy out of its long-term economic stagnation. "For too many years, Italy spent badly and spent too much. So the call to put our accounts in order was right," he says. "That said, the idea today of an austerity without reforms and without growth is very dangerous … Italy is going through a difficult period, but to think you can get out of this phase with just austerity is wrong." |
| For many in the PD, Renzi's positioning is problematic. When he took on Pier Luigi Bersani in primaries last year to be the party's candidate at the February election, Massimo D'Alema, a former prime minister and party leader, remarked: "If he wins, the Italian centre-left is finished." On that occasion, the "scrapper" – so-called because of his desire to boot out the old guard of Italian politics – did not win. But the landscape looks a little different now. Bersani – battered by weeks of failed talks to form a government and a fiasco at the presidential election which saw both his candidates shot down by party rebels – has resigned. Headlines herald "schism" for the deeply divided party. | For many in the PD, Renzi's positioning is problematic. When he took on Pier Luigi Bersani in primaries last year to be the party's candidate at the February election, Massimo D'Alema, a former prime minister and party leader, remarked: "If he wins, the Italian centre-left is finished." On that occasion, the "scrapper" – so-called because of his desire to boot out the old guard of Italian politics – did not win. But the landscape looks a little different now. Bersani – battered by weeks of failed talks to form a government and a fiasco at the presidential election which saw both his candidates shot down by party rebels – has resigned. Headlines herald "schism" for the deeply divided party. |
| Renzi has never been one to toe the PD line: when he stood in primaries for mayor, it was to the profound irritation of party elders, who had told him to wait his turn. Unsurprisingly, then, he does not refrain from calling out his own party now on what he says was a "badly played election campaign, all on the defensive, allowing Berlusconi his latest miraculous recovery". | Renzi has never been one to toe the PD line: when he stood in primaries for mayor, it was to the profound irritation of party elders, who had told him to wait his turn. Unsurprisingly, then, he does not refrain from calling out his own party now on what he says was a "badly played election campaign, all on the defensive, allowing Berlusconi his latest miraculous recovery". |
| Now, he adds, the PD must decide once and for all what it stands for and – although he does not say it, the subtext is clear – whether it will accept him as its new champion. The obvious draw is that, according to the polls, he is by far the most likely person to win an election – like Tony Blair, a "milestone for the European left" whom he quotes as lamenting Labour's old habit of losing. "[He] is a role model because he wasn't scared of challenging his seniors. He became leader very young and turned a generation on to politics." He appeals to centrist and some centre-right voters. He refuses to devote his career to the demolition of Berlusconi, preferring dismissal to demonisation, and telling the former prime minister "to his face" that he would very much like to send him into retirement. | Now, he adds, the PD must decide once and for all what it stands for and – although he does not say it, the subtext is clear – whether it will accept him as its new champion. The obvious draw is that, according to the polls, he is by far the most likely person to win an election – like Tony Blair, a "milestone for the European left" whom he quotes as lamenting Labour's old habit of losing. "[He] is a role model because he wasn't scared of challenging his seniors. He became leader very young and turned a generation on to politics." He appeals to centrist and some centre-right voters. He refuses to devote his career to the demolition of Berlusconi, preferring dismissal to demonisation, and telling the former prime minister "to his face" that he would very much like to send him into retirement. |
| On the subject of Beppe Grillo, the comedian turned political "megaphone" whose Five Star Movement (M5S) has rocked Italian politics to its core, Renzi is damning. The reasons so many voted for Grillo are "understandable", he says; indeed, the young Tuscan was calling for the country's "old politics" – and politicians – to be scrapped before M5S was founded. But there, he insists, the comparisons end: "Italy outside the parliament is ready [for change]," he says. But Italy " cannot be left in the hands of demagogues like Beppe Grillo." | On the subject of Beppe Grillo, the comedian turned political "megaphone" whose Five Star Movement (M5S) has rocked Italian politics to its core, Renzi is damning. The reasons so many voted for Grillo are "understandable", he says; indeed, the young Tuscan was calling for the country's "old politics" – and politicians – to be scrapped before M5S was founded. But there, he insists, the comparisons end: "Italy outside the parliament is ready [for change]," he says. But Italy " cannot be left in the hands of demagogues like Beppe Grillo." |
| Whether the country will ever be in Renzi's hands – this week, this year, this decade – remains unknown. But, sitting back in his chair in Palazzo Vecchio, he is at pains to say that time is on his side. "In a year or two there will be fresh elections. I am 38 years old. I am a very lucky guy. I get to come to work here every morning and I should have to pay the entry fee," he says, laughing and fiddling with his iPad. "I don't have ambition … to change position. I would like to change the country." | Whether the country will ever be in Renzi's hands – this week, this year, this decade – remains unknown. But, sitting back in his chair in Palazzo Vecchio, he is at pains to say that time is on his side. "In a year or two there will be fresh elections. I am 38 years old. I am a very lucky guy. I get to come to work here every morning and I should have to pay the entry fee," he says, laughing and fiddling with his iPad. "I don't have ambition … to change position. I would like to change the country." |
| Marco Bardazzi (La Stampa), Philippe Ridet (Le Monde), Pablo Ordaz (El Pais), Milada Jedrysik (Gazeta Wyborcza) and Andrea Bachstein (Süddeutsche Zeitung) contributed to this interview. | Marco Bardazzi (La Stampa), Philippe Ridet (Le Monde), Pablo Ordaz (El Pais), Milada Jedrysik (Gazeta Wyborcza) and Andrea Bachstein (Süddeutsche Zeitung) contributed to this interview. |
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