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Merkel Challenges Obama on Surveillance Obama Says Surveillance Helped in Case in Germany
(about 7 hours later)
BERLIN — Challenged personally by Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany about American intelligence programs that monitor foreigners’ communications, President Obama said Wednesday that German terrorist threats were among those foiled by such operations worldwide — a contention that Ms. Merkel seemed to confirm. BERLIN — Pressed personally by Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany about the United States’ surveillance of foreigners’ phone and e-mail traffic, President Obama said Wednesday that terrorist threats in her country were among those foiled by such intelligence operations worldwide — a contention that Ms. Merkel seemed to confirm.
Their exchanges, in private at the start of his state visit and later at a joint news conference, preceded Mr. Obama’s speech to some 4,500 people at the Brandenburg Gate, near where the Berlin Wall once stood and other American presidents — John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton — had paid tribute to the German-American alliance against outside threats from communism to terrorism. Their remarks, made first in private during Mr. Obama’s state visit here, and then publicly in a joint news conference, were evidence that the surveillance controversy set off by leaked documents from a former National Security Agency contractor, Edward J. Snowden, had followed the president overseas as he concluded a three-day diplomatic trip to Europe.
“No wall can stand against the yearning of justice — the yearnings for freedom, the yearnings for peace — that burns in the human heart,” Mr. Obama said in his speech. That disclosure has been particularly provocative in Germany, where the history of the Nazi era and then postwar surveillance in Communist East Germany have left a legacy of national concern for privacy and civil liberties.
He used the address to propose that the United States and Russia further reduce their nuclear arsenals. Yet the anticipation of the speech at the historic site was offset by attention to the dispute over the revelations of the breadth of American surveillance programs, which include both Prism, an effort to monitor foreign communications at American Internet companies like Google, as well as a vast database of domestic phone logs. The programs monitor the communications without individualized court orders. Ms. Merkel, who grew up in East Germany, reflected that sensitivity in raising the issue with Mr. Obama. Yet she also expressed support for such operations, if balanced by “due diligence” to guard citizens’ privacy rights, and said Germany had received “very important information” from its cooperation with the Americans against international terrorism.
“We know of at least 50 threats that have been averted because of this information, not just in the United States but in some cases here in Germany,” Mr. Obama said during the news conference. “So lives have been saved.” The leaders’ exchanges on that and other issues preceded Mr. Obama’s outdoors address to about 4,500 people at the historic Brandenburg Gate. While Presidents Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton each gave memorable addresses there, Mr. Obama was the first to speak on the eastern side, long closed off by the Berlin Wall, built by the former Soviet Union. Mr. Reagan, from the western side, famously challenged the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987: “Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” It fell two years later.
He did not provide any details. But Ms. Merkel, who acknowledged that Germany has received “very important information” from the United States, cited the so-called Sauerland cell as an example of such antiterrorism intelligence cooperation. Mr. Obama’s address came 50 years after President John F. Kennedy, in another celebrated speech here, spoke outside a town hall to affirm support for Germans against the nuclear-armed Soviets. By contrast, Mr. Obama used his speech to propose that the United States and Russia reduce their nuclear arsenals by a third.
In that case, four Islamic militants were sentenced to up to 12 years in jail in 2010 for plotting terrorist attacks against American targets in Germany. They were apprehended in 2007 and confessed in 2009. The Central Intelligence Agency was presumed at the time to have tipped off the German authorities, and the case has gotten renewed attention in Germany since the recent leak that exposed the Prism program for monitoring foreign communications. “Our fates and fortunes are linked like never before,” he said. “We may no longer live in fear of global annihilation, but so long as nuclear weapons exist, we are not truly safe.”
That news has been controversial in Germany, where both the Nazi era and the postwar surveillance in Communist East Germany have fostered deep concerns about privacy and civil liberties, and the issue was expected to loom large in the meeting of the two leaders. Ms. Merkel said at the news conference that she and Mr. Obama had talked at length about the American programs, even indicating that the topic took precedence over their discussion of subjects like the global economy and the conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan. She made clear that she had expressed her own concerns, despite her stated understanding of the need for such intelligence efforts. Officials said 4,500 people were present, fewer than the 6,000 tickets distributed — perhaps reflecting the scorching heat. Even so, that was far fewer than the 450,000 who saw Mr. Kennedy or the 200,000 who packed a park to hear Mr. Obama in 2008, when he was a presidential candidate. Then, Ms. Merkel had discouraged his use of the Brandenburg Gate site, saying it should not be used for politicking. This time she invited him to use it.
“Although we do see the need,” Ms. Merkel said, such activities must be balanced by “due diligence” to guard against unwarranted invasions of privacy. “Free democracies live off people having a feeling of security,” she added. The anticipation of Mr. Obama’s address, though, was offset by attention to revelations of the breadth of the two United States surveillance programs — one a huge database logging American phone calls and the other, called Prism, to monitor foreign communications at Internet companies and through phone logs without individual warrants.
Mr. Obama, repeating defenses he has made to Americans, described how he had made sure when he took office that the intelligence programs “were examined and scrubbed.” He emphasized that the United States monitored metadata on phone numbers that were linked to suspected terrorist activities, and did not eavesdrop on the content of calls or e-mails without getting a court order. “So the encroachment of liberty has been strictly circumscribed,” he said. At their news conference, Ms. Merkel said she and Mr. Obama had discussed the surveillance issue at length, indicating that it took precedence over subjects like the global economy and conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan. In turn, Mr. Obama justified the operations at length.
“We do have to strike a balance, and we do have to be cautious about how our governments are operating when it comes to intelligence,” Mr. Obama said, adding, “This is not a situation in which we are rifling through the ordinary e-mails of German citizens or American citizens or French citizens or anybody else.” “We know of at least 50 threats that have been averted because of this information, not just in the United States but in some cases threats here in Germany,” he said. “So lives have been saved.”
Ms. Merkel looked at him he spoke beside her, expressionless but seeming to listen intently. “It’s necessary for us to debate these issues,” she replied. “People have concerns.” He did not provide details. But Ms. Merkel cited the “Sauerland cell” in Germany as an example of the benefits of surveillance and information sharing with the Americans. In that case, four Islamic militants were sentenced to up to 12 years in prison in 2010 for plotting terrorist attacks against American targets in Germany. They were apprehended in 2007 and confessed in 2009. The Central Intelligence Agency was presumed at the time to have tipped off the German authorities.
The public interplay between the leaders reflected a mutual respect and even personal closeness that they have developed over recent years, despite some of their policy differences. Mr. Obama noted that he had given her the Presidential Medal of Freedom, America’s highest civilian honor, and said that spoke to their relationship. He called the chancellor “Angela” and she, in German, used “du,” the familiar form of the pronoun “you,” in addressing him. Yet Ms. Merkel, sensitive to Germans’ privacy concerns and facing re-election this year, made clear that she had expressed her own concerns. “Although we do see the need for gathering information,” she said, “there needs to be due diligence.”
On some of the other issues — particularly regarding efforts to provide more aid to the Syrian insurgency, and plans for international forces to leave Afghanistan next year — the two leaders agreed, reflecting discussions they had on Monday and Tuesday in Northern Ireland with other heads of state at the meeting of the Group of 8 industrialized countries. Mr. Obama countered that he made sure when he took office that the programs “were examined and scrubbed.” He explained, as he has to American audiences, that the United States monitored only metadata on phone numbers linked to suspected terrorist activities, and did not eavesdrop on the content of calls or e-mails without a court order.
Ms. Merkel, at the news conference, agreed with Mr. Obama that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, had lost legitimacy because of his government’s bloodshed and should not be part of the new government that the United States, Germany and other European allies sought in Syria. And both expressed hope for resolution even as they acknowledged the strong opposition to regime change from the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, Mr. Assad’s ally and chief arms provider, who forced the Group of 8 to soften its statement this week on Syria. “We do have to strike a balance, and we do have to be cautious about how our governments are operating when it comes to intelligence,” Mr. Obama said. But, he added, “This is not a situation in which we are rifling through the ordinary e-mails of German citizens or American citizens or French citizens or anybody else.”
Mr. Obama and Ms. Merkel were vague about their different approaches to the global economy. The Obama administration has pressed euro zone countries, in particular Germany, to provide stimulus or at least soften the demands for continued austerity measures and budget cutting from indebted European nations. The continent continues to weather recessions long after the American economy has returned to slow growth. Despite the controversy, the leaders’ interactions displayed a mutual respect and even closeness developed over nearly five years of coordinating on economic and security crises.
On an unseasonably hot day, under cloudless skies, Mr. Obama’s state visit began with the usual ceremonial pomp and red-carpet welcomes. He first went to the Schloss Bellevue, an 18th-century summer palace now used by Germany’s nonpartisan president, to meet the current officeholder, Joachim Gauck. Then he continued to the modern Chancellery building for the business of the day with Ms. Merkel: their private meeting, lunch and the news conference, which preceded the customarily formal dinner. Mr. Obama repeatedly called the chancellor “Angela.” When she addressed him in German, she used “du,” the familiar form of the pronoun “you.” When they posed for photographers before dinner at a former palace, the two joked in English, causing the president to twice double over in laughter. Michelle Obama and Ms. Merkel’s husband, Joachim Sauer, conversed separately.
Berlin was unusually calm, its residents apparently heeding authorities’ pleas to avoid the historic city center, which was heavily policed and cordoned off near the Brandenburg Gate. On most issues, the two leaders signaled their agreement, including on allied efforts to provide more aid to the Syrian insurgency, and plans for international forces to leave Afghanistan next year. Both said at the news conference that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, had lost legitimacy. Both expressed hope for a new government without him, even as they acknowledged the strong opposition that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, Mr. Assad’s ally, expressed when the leaders of the Group of 8 industrial nations gathered in Northern Ireland this week for their annual summit meeting.
German newspapers carried large headlines, “Welcome to Berlin,” with the Berliner Morgenpost’s in English. But the left-leaning Berlin Daily Taz jabbed Mr. Obama with a headline in English, “Mr. Obama, open this gate!” along with a photo not of the Brandenburg Gate but of the prison for terrorism suspects in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, that Mr. Obama, as a presidential candidate, promised to close. The headline paraphrased Mr. Reagan’s line at the Brandenburg Gate when it was part of the Soviet Union’s Berlin Wall separating the Communist East from democratic West Berlin, and spoke to the resonance of the issue here. Mr. Obama and Ms. Merkel were vague about their differences on economic policy. The Obama administration has pressed euro zone countries, in particular Germany, to provide stimulus or at least soften the demands for austerity measures and budget-cutting from indebted European nations.
A German reporter asked about it at the news conference. “It’s been more difficult than I hoped” to close the prison given Congressional resistance, Mr. Obama said, but added that he was going to “redouble” his efforts. American surveillance was not the only controversy to dog Mr. Obama in Germany. While some newspapers carried headlines like “Welcome to Berlin,” the left-leaning Berlin Daily Taz jabbed him with, “Mr. Obama, open this gate!” accompanying a photo of the barbed-wire gate at the detention center in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, which the president had promised in 2008 to close. Amnesty International held a modest protest near the hotel where Mr. Obama and his family were staying. As a far greater number of police officers looked on, 14 people in orange jumpsuits like those worn by prison detainees chained themselves together and chanted, “Yes, you can! Close Guantánamo!”
Amnesty International held a modest protest at the Potsdamer Platz, a sprawling public square near the Ritz-Carlton hotel where Mr. Obama and his family are staying. Surrounded by dozens of police officers patrolling the plaza or looking on from the occasional patch of shade, 14 people in bright orange jumpsuits chained themselves together and chanted, “Yes, you can! Close Guantánamo!” A German reporter raised the issue at the news conference. “It’s been more difficult than I had hoped,” given Congressional resistance, to close the prison, Mr. Obama said, but added that he would “redouble” his efforts.

Alison Smale, Chris Cottrell and Melissa Eddy contributed reporting. 

Alison Smale, Melissa Eddy and Chris Cottrell contributed reporting.