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Rupert Murdoch tape: read extracts from the transcript Rupert Murdoch tape: read extracts from the transcript
(3 months later)
Rupert Murdoch: "Can I just say first that I appreciate very much what you're saying. I'd be saying the same thing if I was in your chair. And I'm sure we've made mistakes. But it's hard for you to see it this way. I'm just as annoyed as you are at the police, and you're directing it at me instead, but never mind. I mean, it is absolutely – and we will be returning to this as a paper, if we can get through a bit more of this (Murdoch slaps table) – what they're doing, what they did to you, and how they treated people at the BBC, saying 'a couple of you come in for a cup of tea at four in the afternoon,' you guys got thrown out of bed by gangs of cops at six in the morning, and I'm just as annoyed as you are. But all I'd ask that you remember is that in that first month, you said was panic, maybe there was panic that we closed the News of the World, but we were working in the belief – I think rightly – the police were about to invade this building, and take all the computers out the way, and just put us out of business totally. And everyone could have lost out.Rupert Murdoch: "Can I just say first that I appreciate very much what you're saying. I'd be saying the same thing if I was in your chair. And I'm sure we've made mistakes. But it's hard for you to see it this way. I'm just as annoyed as you are at the police, and you're directing it at me instead, but never mind. I mean, it is absolutely – and we will be returning to this as a paper, if we can get through a bit more of this (Murdoch slaps table) – what they're doing, what they did to you, and how they treated people at the BBC, saying 'a couple of you come in for a cup of tea at four in the afternoon,' you guys got thrown out of bed by gangs of cops at six in the morning, and I'm just as annoyed as you are. But all I'd ask that you remember is that in that first month, you said was panic, maybe there was panic that we closed the News of the World, but we were working in the belief – I think rightly – the police were about to invade this building, and take all the computers out the way, and just put us out of business totally. And everyone could have lost out.
"And it was done to protect the business. We thought, protecting everybody, but that's how it started. And if you want to accuse me of a certain amount of panic, there's some truth in that. But it was very, very – I don't know – it's hard for you to remember it, it was such – but it was – I was under personal siege – not that that mattered – but it was – the whole place was – all the press were screaming and yelling, and we might have gone too far in protecting ourselves. And you were the victims of it. It's not enough for me to say you've got my sympathy. But you do have my total support.""And it was done to protect the business. We thought, protecting everybody, but that's how it started. And if you want to accuse me of a certain amount of panic, there's some truth in that. But it was very, very – I don't know – it's hard for you to remember it, it was such – but it was – I was under personal siege – not that that mattered – but it was – the whole place was – all the press were screaming and yelling, and we might have gone too far in protecting ourselves. And you were the victims of it. It's not enough for me to say you've got my sympathy. But you do have my total support."
......
RM: "Well, of course, I expected that question. And, naturally, anyone who's released or anyone who's acquitted will just continue. I've been told that I must not give guarantees, but I can give you something."RM: "Well, of course, I expected that question. And, naturally, anyone who's released or anyone who's acquitted will just continue. I've been told that I must not give guarantees, but I can give you something."
Unidentified Sun journalist: "Medical support?"Unidentified Sun journalist: "Medical support?"
RM: "I guarantee you that will continue. And I will do everything in my power to give you total support, even if you're convicted and get six months or whatever. I think it's just outrageous, but – and I don't know of anybody, or anything, that did anything that wasn't being done across Fleet Street and wasn't the culture. And we're being picked on. I think that it was the old rightwing establishment, [Lord] Puttnam, or worse, the leftwing get-even crowd of Gordon Brown. There was a sort of – we got caught with dirty hands, I guess, with the News of the World, and everybody piled in. It was a get-even time for things that were done with the Sun over the last 40 years, 38 years, whatever it is. But that's no help to you guys in your personal situation. All I have to say is, you thanked me for giving you an hour today, I spend more than an hour every day thinking about this, and will just do anything I can to help and support you. Doesn't make good what's happened to you, or what is happening to you, or the torture that you and your families have been put through. Still, I mean, it's a disgrace. Here we are, two years later, and the cops are totally incompetent. So, I'll just ask you a question, I don't want to interrupt you, are you happy with the lawyers that have been provided?"RM: "I guarantee you that will continue. And I will do everything in my power to give you total support, even if you're convicted and get six months or whatever. I think it's just outrageous, but – and I don't know of anybody, or anything, that did anything that wasn't being done across Fleet Street and wasn't the culture. And we're being picked on. I think that it was the old rightwing establishment, [Lord] Puttnam, or worse, the leftwing get-even crowd of Gordon Brown. There was a sort of – we got caught with dirty hands, I guess, with the News of the World, and everybody piled in. It was a get-even time for things that were done with the Sun over the last 40 years, 38 years, whatever it is. But that's no help to you guys in your personal situation. All I have to say is, you thanked me for giving you an hour today, I spend more than an hour every day thinking about this, and will just do anything I can to help and support you. Doesn't make good what's happened to you, or what is happening to you, or the torture that you and your families have been put through. Still, I mean, it's a disgrace. Here we are, two years later, and the cops are totally incompetent. So, I'll just ask you a question, I don't want to interrupt you, are you happy with the lawyers that have been provided?"
......
RM: "We're talking about payments for news tips from cops: that's been going on a hundred years, absolutely..."RM: "We're talking about payments for news tips from cops: that's been going on a hundred years, absolutely..."
......
RM: "I remember when I first bought the News of the World, the first day I went to the office … and there was a big wall-safe … And I said, 'What's that for?'RM: "I remember when I first bought the News of the World, the first day I went to the office … and there was a big wall-safe … And I said, 'What's that for?'
"And they said, 'We keep some cash in there.'"And they said, 'We keep some cash in there.'
"And I said, 'What for?'"And I said, 'What for?'
"They said, 'Well, sometimes the editor needs some on a Saturday night for powerful friends. And sometimes the chairman [the late Sir William Carr] is doing badly at the tables, (laughter) and he helps himself …'"They said, 'Well, sometimes the editor needs some on a Saturday night for powerful friends. And sometimes the chairman [the late Sir William Carr] is doing badly at the tables, (laughter) and he helps himself …'
"Now there was a law passed against this in 1906. That's when it was first recognised as a problem ... The idea that the cops then started coming after you, kick you out of bed, and your families, at six in the morning, is unbelievable.""Now there was a law passed against this in 1906. That's when it was first recognised as a problem ... The idea that the cops then started coming after you, kick you out of bed, and your families, at six in the morning, is unbelievable."
......
RM: "I mean, if it wasn't so sad and so terrible, it would be laughable. But if your lawyer puts that- You won't get any help from judges – but, I think, juries. I've got – not absolute faith – but a lot of hope in juries. I think you'll all make fine witnesses. And you want a lot of help from your lawyers, and practice. Because your juries are your best hope."RM: "I mean, if it wasn't so sad and so terrible, it would be laughable. But if your lawyer puts that- You won't get any help from judges – but, I think, juries. I've got – not absolute faith – but a lot of hope in juries. I think you'll all make fine witnesses. And you want a lot of help from your lawyers, and practice. Because your juries are your best hope."
......
RM: "I was told about that this morning, but I wasn't aware that happened. And I don't know who was behind this, your victimisation. I understand exactly where you're coming from. But why are the police behaving in this way? It's the biggest inquiry ever, over next to nothing."RM: "I was told about that this morning, but I wasn't aware that happened. And I don't know who was behind this, your victimisation. I understand exactly where you're coming from. But why are the police behaving in this way? It's the biggest inquiry ever, over next to nothing."
Geoff Webster [Sun deputy editor]: "Well, it's preposterous."Geoff Webster [Sun deputy editor]: "Well, it's preposterous."
RM: "And now they're arresting their own, who never even took money."RM: "And now they're arresting their own, who never even took money."
GW: "Well, quite. Quite. They're out of control."GW: "Well, quite. Quite. They're out of control."
RM: "They're going to put all newspapers out of business. Someone tweeted from the Times today, there was a tweet saying he'd just had lunch with one of his contacts, and he was on the way down to the police station to drop the guy in it. It was a joke. It's unbelievable. Actually, it's good for all of us, in that it's going to get the whole of Fleet Street thinking it's preposterous."RM: "They're going to put all newspapers out of business. Someone tweeted from the Times today, there was a tweet saying he'd just had lunch with one of his contacts, and he was on the way down to the police station to drop the guy in it. It was a joke. It's unbelievable. Actually, it's good for all of us, in that it's going to get the whole of Fleet Street thinking it's preposterous."
......
RM: "Yeah, but emotional support is not enough. I've got to do more. I mean, at least, everybody will be paid. You're all innocent until proven guilty. What you're asking is, what happens if some of you are proven guilty? What afterwards? I'm not allowed to promise you – I will promise you continued health support – but your jobs – I've got to be careful what comes out – but frankly, I won't say it, but just trust me."RM: "Yeah, but emotional support is not enough. I've got to do more. I mean, at least, everybody will be paid. You're all innocent until proven guilty. What you're asking is, what happens if some of you are proven guilty? What afterwards? I'm not allowed to promise you – I will promise you continued health support – but your jobs – I've got to be careful what comes out – but frankly, I won't say it, but just trust me."
......
RM: "I don't think that's totally fair. We've been a paper that's never been frightened to get – wade into big controversies, and as such we've made some enemies, many times, but we've made a lot of friends too. And I don't think it's all one way. But they wouldn't be buying – 2 million people wouldn't be buying the Sun every day. But, yeah, I know what you're saying. Well, where would I, or the Sun, be most unpopular? It would be with the judges."RM: "I don't think that's totally fair. We've been a paper that's never been frightened to get – wade into big controversies, and as such we've made some enemies, many times, but we've made a lot of friends too. And I don't think it's all one way. But they wouldn't be buying – 2 million people wouldn't be buying the Sun every day. But, yeah, I know what you're saying. Well, where would I, or the Sun, be most unpopular? It would be with the judges."
......
RM: "All I can say is, for the last several months, we have told, the MSC has told, and Kathleen Harris, who's a terrific lawyer, has told the police, has said, 'No, no, no – get a court order. Deal with that.'RM: "All I can say is, for the last several months, we have told, the MSC has told, and Kathleen Harris, who's a terrific lawyer, has told the police, has said, 'No, no, no – get a court order. Deal with that.'
"They said, 'We will,' and, of course, it never happened.""They said, 'We will,' and, of course, it never happened."
......
RM: "Thank you very much. That's very moving … I'll go and shove it down the throat of the company lawyers. That was the most ups–"RM: "Thank you very much. That's very moving … I'll go and shove it down the throat of the company lawyers. That was the most ups–"
(Second Sun executive sobs.)(Second Sun executive sobs.)
RM: "It's a very, very moving letter. All right?"RM: "It's a very, very moving letter. All right?"
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