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Gary Lineker defies Match of the Day critics with a striker's fervour Gary Lineker defies Match of the Day critics with a striker's fervour
(about 7 hours later)
'Football is mad, most of the time," Gary Lineker says in a hushed library on the top floor of the achingly cool Electric House in Notting Hill. There are lots of seemingly important and nearly beautiful people lingering over lunch downstairs and it's obvious which one of the two grey-haired old men in the deserted library is an Electric member. Lineker is the trim, tanned, good-looking television personality and deadly former striker who talks compellingly about the great players and coaches he has known.'Football is mad, most of the time," Gary Lineker says in a hushed library on the top floor of the achingly cool Electric House in Notting Hill. There are lots of seemingly important and nearly beautiful people lingering over lunch downstairs and it's obvious which one of the two grey-haired old men in the deserted library is an Electric member. Lineker is the trim, tanned, good-looking television personality and deadly former striker who talks compellingly about the great players and coaches he has known.
Yet he is tucked away here, answering questions riddled with sniping while pondering the madness and spite of football. "There's still lots of venom around," Lineker says. "Football matters so much to people and they get very defensive – or angry."Yet he is tucked away here, answering questions riddled with sniping while pondering the madness and spite of football. "There's still lots of venom around," Lineker says. "Football matters so much to people and they get very defensive – or angry."
The 52-year-old presenter of Match of the Day pauses as if the fury of football, often directed at his famous old programme, has struck him anew. "Oh, the anger! You see it on here," he says, gesturing to the Twitter icon on his phone.The 52-year-old presenter of Match of the Day pauses as if the fury of football, often directed at his famous old programme, has struck him anew. "Oh, the anger! You see it on here," he says, gesturing to the Twitter icon on his phone.
Lineker has presented Match of the Day since 1999. Even with a three-year break, when the BBC lost the rights, he has done the job for longer than Des Lynam, his accomplished predecessor. A staunch defender of the programme, and its maligned analysts, he has been derided over the years for pretty much everything from blandness to weak jokes. He is, however, respectful of the way Gary Neville has transcended the jaded art of football punditry. The former Manchester United defender has offered a freshness and clarity on Sky which critics argue is lacking on the BBC. Lineker resists the charge passionately – but scrutiny of MOTD has intensified following the recent announcement that Alan Hansen, once hailed as a bitingly incisive analyst, will leave the programme after the World Cup next summer.Lineker has presented Match of the Day since 1999. Even with a three-year break, when the BBC lost the rights, he has done the job for longer than Des Lynam, his accomplished predecessor. A staunch defender of the programme, and its maligned analysts, he has been derided over the years for pretty much everything from blandness to weak jokes. He is, however, respectful of the way Gary Neville has transcended the jaded art of football punditry. The former Manchester United defender has offered a freshness and clarity on Sky which critics argue is lacking on the BBC. Lineker resists the charge passionately – but scrutiny of MOTD has intensified following the recent announcement that Alan Hansen, once hailed as a bitingly incisive analyst, will leave the programme after the World Cup next summer.
The perennial debate around MOTD is as familiar as mournful despair over the state of the national team. "I wouldn't say it doesn't bother me," Lineker murmurs. "I listen and take it. Sometimes I can agree with it but by and large it's criticism without telling me what the [fault] is. I always ask: 'What would you do?' Match of the Day has fundamentally improved since we got the contract back – but football is so emotive and that's why people are never going to be entirely satisfied.The perennial debate around MOTD is as familiar as mournful despair over the state of the national team. "I wouldn't say it doesn't bother me," Lineker murmurs. "I listen and take it. Sometimes I can agree with it but by and large it's criticism without telling me what the [fault] is. I always ask: 'What would you do?' Match of the Day has fundamentally improved since we got the contract back – but football is so emotive and that's why people are never going to be entirely satisfied.
"But we're bucking the trends on highlight shows for sport – audiences are down everywhere and, considering the excessive football on TV, it's remarkable we generally hit between six-to-seven million every weekend.""But we're bucking the trends on highlight shows for sport – audiences are down everywhere and, considering the excessive football on TV, it's remarkable we generally hit between six-to-seven million every weekend."
He must be aware that there is now a deeper dissatisfaction with the programme? "I don't think there is. I think it's a Daily Mail thing – and their anti-BBC issue."He must be aware that there is now a deeper dissatisfaction with the programme? "I don't think there is. I think it's a Daily Mail thing – and their anti-BBC issue."
Does he really believe that serious criticism is just led by the Daily Mail? "I do, yeah. The only thing that has been levelled consistently against MOTD, particularly in the Daily Mail, is that there's a cozy atmosphere and it's the same people every week. Lots of people like familiarity but we are changing things now. We've already seen about seven different pundits this season. [Last] Saturday we had Danny Murphy and [Everton manager] Roberto Martínez."Does he really believe that serious criticism is just led by the Daily Mail? "I do, yeah. The only thing that has been levelled consistently against MOTD, particularly in the Daily Mail, is that there's a cozy atmosphere and it's the same people every week. Lots of people like familiarity but we are changing things now. We've already seen about seven different pundits this season. [Last] Saturday we had Danny Murphy and [Everton manager] Roberto Martínez."
Have such attempted tweaks to a show that began 49 years ago been a direct result of increased competition? "We have meetings all the time where we're looking at ways of finding a different method. But it's forgotten how we made a fundamental change 10 years ago. Prior to 2003, you'd see two main games and then four minutes of another game and then after that just the other goals on MOTD or ITV's version. When we got the [rights] contract back I went to the powers-that-be and said: 'Is there a way we can show highlights of every game?' They backed it. It was a brave, bold, very expensive decision."Have such attempted tweaks to a show that began 49 years ago been a direct result of increased competition? "We have meetings all the time where we're looking at ways of finding a different method. But it's forgotten how we made a fundamental change 10 years ago. Prior to 2003, you'd see two main games and then four minutes of another game and then after that just the other goals on MOTD or ITV's version. When we got the [rights] contract back I went to the powers-that-be and said: 'Is there a way we can show highlights of every game?' They backed it. It was a brave, bold, very expensive decision."
Yet a consistent charge remains – that the staleness of the BBC's punditry has been highlighted by Sky's introduction of Neville and sometimes spiky debate involving the likes of Graeme Souness. "You cannot get involved in debate on MOTD. You can do it on Sky because they've got hours and hours. We've got a couple of minutes. It's a very disciplined show. Our primary purpose is to show the action and the analysis is very secondary. We have lots of people who would prefer no analysis. We have lots of people who would prefer more analysis. We have to find a balance."Yet a consistent charge remains – that the staleness of the BBC's punditry has been highlighted by Sky's introduction of Neville and sometimes spiky debate involving the likes of Graeme Souness. "You cannot get involved in debate on MOTD. You can do it on Sky because they've got hours and hours. We've got a couple of minutes. It's a very disciplined show. Our primary purpose is to show the action and the analysis is very secondary. We have lots of people who would prefer no analysis. We have lots of people who would prefer more analysis. We have to find a balance."
Has the praise of Neville been excessive? "No, he's very good. The only difficult thing for him is that when it comes to analysing England players he's involved with them as [an assistant] coach. There have already been a couple of occasions when he's avoided it. But he's very good – and, well, I wish we'd had him on MOTD."Has the praise of Neville been excessive? "No, he's very good. The only difficult thing for him is that when it comes to analysing England players he's involved with them as [an assistant] coach. There have already been a couple of occasions when he's avoided it. But he's very good – and, well, I wish we'd had him on MOTD."
Lineker recently watched a fascinating eight-minute segment Neville devoted to a single corner and reiterates that MOTD could never replicate such detail. "We simply can't do that when we've just got three minutes 30 seconds to discuss the first match – and we're limited by the contract as to the amount we can show."Lineker recently watched a fascinating eight-minute segment Neville devoted to a single corner and reiterates that MOTD could never replicate such detail. "We simply can't do that when we've just got three minutes 30 seconds to discuss the first match – and we're limited by the contract as to the amount we can show."
Surely such restrictions mean the BBC's analysis should be even more acute and penetrating? "It's as penetrating and acute as it possibly can be. But MOTD is the most difficult football programme to do for a pundit – by far. Once you get down to matches where there's a minute or 45 seconds you can't really do any proper analysis."Surely such restrictions mean the BBC's analysis should be even more acute and penetrating? "It's as penetrating and acute as it possibly can be. But MOTD is the most difficult football programme to do for a pundit – by far. Once you get down to matches where there's a minute or 45 seconds you can't really do any proper analysis."
Alan Shearer is often regarded as a symbol of all that is wrong with BBC punditry. "Personally, I think he's really good," Lineker says. "He's improved a lot. I think the problem is that when players start, with the odd exception, they can be a little guarded. But if you listen to Alan Shearer now compared to four years ago he's become very strongly opinionated. He's as strong as anyone and understands the game really well. We do lots of research and he's generally in the top three of who people rate."Alan Shearer is often regarded as a symbol of all that is wrong with BBC punditry. "Personally, I think he's really good," Lineker says. "He's improved a lot. I think the problem is that when players start, with the odd exception, they can be a little guarded. But if you listen to Alan Shearer now compared to four years ago he's become very strongly opinionated. He's as strong as anyone and understands the game really well. We do lots of research and he's generally in the top three of who people rate."
Yet, in 2010, Shearer suggested that, "No one really knows a great deal of him" as he failed to explain Hatem Ben Arfa's impact at Newcastle United. Ben Arfa had been called up to the French national squad three years earlier and had played his first senior internationals during qualification for Euro 2008. "I thought that was so out of order," Lineker protests. "He obviously meant Newcastle supporters in general. It's so easy to turn around and say [sinks into dumb voice] 'Oh, he doesn't know anything about football.' He quite clearly meant that we, as a nation, do not know much about Hatem Ben Arfa – outside of us in the game who obviously do lots of research and watch foreign football all the time. I think that's what he meant. But Alan's a competitive soul and he works really hard. All the guys do."Yet, in 2010, Shearer suggested that, "No one really knows a great deal of him" as he failed to explain Hatem Ben Arfa's impact at Newcastle United. Ben Arfa had been called up to the French national squad three years earlier and had played his first senior internationals during qualification for Euro 2008. "I thought that was so out of order," Lineker protests. "He obviously meant Newcastle supporters in general. It's so easy to turn around and say [sinks into dumb voice] 'Oh, he doesn't know anything about football.' He quite clearly meant that we, as a nation, do not know much about Hatem Ben Arfa – outside of us in the game who obviously do lots of research and watch foreign football all the time. I think that's what he meant. But Alan's a competitive soul and he works really hard. All the guys do."
Hansen is accused now of self-parody but Lineker rightly stresses that the former Liverpool defender "paved the way for the good ones and there are not many good ones because it's hard. I was initially a pundit but I felt I was saying the same thing after a while. That's one of the reasons Alan's had enough after 20 years. There comes a time when you feel you're repeating yourself."Hansen is accused now of self-parody but Lineker rightly stresses that the former Liverpool defender "paved the way for the good ones and there are not many good ones because it's hard. I was initially a pundit but I felt I was saying the same thing after a while. That's one of the reasons Alan's had enough after 20 years. There comes a time when you feel you're repeating yourself."
Would it help if a contrasting voice was occasionally included? "It is ex-players but do you want to go down the journalists' route on MOTD? I don't even see anyone in this country writing in a tactical or analytical manner. We've got some wonderful writers but I don't think MOTD's quite right for that."Would it help if a contrasting voice was occasionally included? "It is ex-players but do you want to go down the journalists' route on MOTD? I don't even see anyone in this country writing in a tactical or analytical manner. We've got some wonderful writers but I don't think MOTD's quite right for that."
Even if we restrict my ridiculously parochial survey to these pages, writers like Michael Cox and Jonathan Wilson clearly address tactical intricacies. And wouldn't someone accustomed to television, like James Richardson, consistently excellent since fronting Channel 4's coverage of Italian football in the 1990s, add more vitality?Even if we restrict my ridiculously parochial survey to these pages, writers like Michael Cox and Jonathan Wilson clearly address tactical intricacies. And wouldn't someone accustomed to television, like James Richardson, consistently excellent since fronting Channel 4's coverage of Italian football in the 1990s, add more vitality?
"Yeah, he was all right but he was a presenter. We've got loads of presenters like Richard Keys and all the new guys on Sky. That's why I thought there was a niche for someone to come into the presenter role who was an ex-footballer. There are loads of James Richardsons and they're great but I have my edge because I've been there, I've experienced it, I've played at the top. They can't turn round to me, the players, and say what the hell do you know? Well they can but … it's very rare.""Yeah, he was all right but he was a presenter. We've got loads of presenters like Richard Keys and all the new guys on Sky. That's why I thought there was a niche for someone to come into the presenter role who was an ex-footballer. There are loads of James Richardsons and they're great but I have my edge because I've been there, I've experienced it, I've played at the top. They can't turn round to me, the players, and say what the hell do you know? Well they can but … it's very rare."
On Twitter, Linker is a forthright and often interestingly waspish voice, which last month resulted in a typical football hoo-hah as he tweeted criticism of England during a World Cup qualifier against Ukraine. Roy Hodgson took umbrage as, earlier this year, Lineker had also lamented England's return to "the dark ages" of an archaic 4-4-2 formation. On Twitter, Lineker is a forthright and often interestingly waspish voice, which last month resulted in a typical football hoo-hah as he tweeted criticism of England during a World Cup qualifier against Ukraine. Roy Hodgson took umbrage as, earlier this year, Lineker had also lamented England's return to "the dark ages" of an archaic 4-4-2 formation.
"England were not passing the ball very well. It was indisputable. I said that, tactically, we're set up OK but you've got to be able to pass the ball. I spoke to Roy a few days after the game. At the press conference he'd been asked 40 questions and the last one said: 'Do you know Lineker had a right pop at you on Twitter?' But I didn't have a pop at him at all. I was having a pop at the fact we couldn't pass the ball from A to B. So at a heated press conference I can understand why he reacted. It didn't bother me but he was worried he had.""England were not passing the ball very well. It was indisputable. I said that, tactically, we're set up OK but you've got to be able to pass the ball. I spoke to Roy a few days after the game. At the press conference he'd been asked 40 questions and the last one said: 'Do you know Lineker had a right pop at you on Twitter?' But I didn't have a pop at him at all. I was having a pop at the fact we couldn't pass the ball from A to B. So at a heated press conference I can understand why he reacted. It didn't bother me but he was worried he had."
So Hodgson phoned Lineker? "Yeah, he did. I'd already been on Twitter the day after the game because it had gone a bit doolally and I wanted to clarify that tactically we were sound and there was great spirit. So we had a chat and it was fine. I like the system we're playing now more – the 4-3-3 aspect – because it gives us more depth and flexibility. But players have to keep the ball. At times it was …[Lineker shakes his head]. These are very good players but they had a particularly bad night. We see that frequently with England. It's hard to comprehend why. Maybe it's the pressure today but other teams manage it."So Hodgson phoned Lineker? "Yeah, he did. I'd already been on Twitter the day after the game because it had gone a bit doolally and I wanted to clarify that tactically we were sound and there was great spirit. So we had a chat and it was fine. I like the system we're playing now more – the 4-3-3 aspect – because it gives us more depth and flexibility. But players have to keep the ball. At times it was …[Lineker shakes his head]. These are very good players but they had a particularly bad night. We see that frequently with England. It's hard to comprehend why. Maybe it's the pressure today but other teams manage it."
Lineker won the Golden Boot at the 1986 World Cup and he was a key member of the England team which, at Italia '90, lost on penalties in a dramatic semi-final against West Germany. Isn't it simply a case that England were a much better side in 1990?Lineker won the Golden Boot at the 1986 World Cup and he was a key member of the England team which, at Italia '90, lost on penalties in a dramatic semi-final against West Germany. Isn't it simply a case that England were a much better side in 1990?
'And other years too [England teams were better than now]. We're going through a transitional phase. The so-called golden generation is autumnal and the young generation is inexperienced. In the middle you've got probably only one world-class outfield player in Wayne Rooney – when he's right. So it's difficult. You need five or six world-class players in their prime.'And other years too [England teams were better than now]. We're going through a transitional phase. The so-called golden generation is autumnal and the young generation is inexperienced. In the middle you've got probably only one world-class outfield player in Wayne Rooney – when he's right. So it's difficult. You need five or six world-class players in their prime.
"I just hope we qualify but it's a really difficult job for Roy because I don't think he's got the tools he needs. But Roy's worked all his life with sides who've played beyond themselves and ground out decent results without being spectacular. He might have to do that again with this group of players.""I just hope we qualify but it's a really difficult job for Roy because I don't think he's got the tools he needs. But Roy's worked all his life with sides who've played beyond themselves and ground out decent results without being spectacular. He might have to do that again with this group of players."
Lineker highlights Jack Wilshere as a rare exception among young England players who often lack the technical ability to compete at the very highest level of international competition. "This is nothing new," Lineker says. "We've always been technically deficient. But I've stood on the touchline in mad frustration, watching all my four boys play, while parents shout 'Boot it … don't mess about!' We almost need a revolution in the culture of our thinking about football."Lineker highlights Jack Wilshere as a rare exception among young England players who often lack the technical ability to compete at the very highest level of international competition. "This is nothing new," Lineker says. "We've always been technically deficient. But I've stood on the touchline in mad frustration, watching all my four boys play, while parents shout 'Boot it … don't mess about!' We almost need a revolution in the culture of our thinking about football."
When I interviewed Neville at the start of the season he doubted whether, if was 18 now, he would reach the peak of his profession. Yet Lineker is bullish when asked if it would've been tougher for him to make the same impact now? "I don't think so. It's not a problem for the really good players. The cream will always rise if you've got the right attitude and mental strength. Look at Wilshere." When I interviewed Neville at the start of the season he doubted whether, if he was 18 now, he would reach the peak of his profession. Yet Lineker is bullish when asked if it would've been tougher for him to make the same impact now? "I don't think so. It's not a problem for the really good players. The cream will always rise if you've got the right attitude and mental strength. Look at Wilshere."
Later, over lunch downstairs, I like the detailed memories Lineker relates about the fleeting elation of scoring or of playing under Johan Cruyff when the current Barcelona legacy of possession and success began amid his own strife with the Dutchman. More quirkily, it's intriguing to hear how Arsène Wenger took over his apartment in Nagoya, when their careers criss-crossed in Japan, or how he had agreed to join Fiorentina from Barcelona because he wanted to play for Sven-Goran Eriksson and alongside Robert Baggio. Lineker only withdrew from the transfer when both Eriksson and Baggio left just before he signed – in a twist mirrored by the way in which he nearly accepted Alex Ferguson's interest in him at Manchester United before signing for Spurs.Later, over lunch downstairs, I like the detailed memories Lineker relates about the fleeting elation of scoring or of playing under Johan Cruyff when the current Barcelona legacy of possession and success began amid his own strife with the Dutchman. More quirkily, it's intriguing to hear how Arsène Wenger took over his apartment in Nagoya, when their careers criss-crossed in Japan, or how he had agreed to join Fiorentina from Barcelona because he wanted to play for Sven-Goran Eriksson and alongside Robert Baggio. Lineker only withdrew from the transfer when both Eriksson and Baggio left just before he signed – in a twist mirrored by the way in which he nearly accepted Alex Ferguson's interest in him at Manchester United before signing for Spurs.
Cruyff, infamously, played Lineker out of position, on the wing, at Barcelona. "Yeah, but he was a really brilliant coach. It was all about possession. He started the whole Barcelona legacy then. He started the idea that as soon as you get the ball you make it as big as you possibly can and when you're not got it you make it as small as you possibly can. I learnt a lot from Cruyff. In those days you were only allowed two foreign players and, when a new coach came in, he wanted his own players.Cruyff, infamously, played Lineker out of position, on the wing, at Barcelona. "Yeah, but he was a really brilliant coach. It was all about possession. He started the whole Barcelona legacy then. He started the idea that as soon as you get the ball you make it as big as you possibly can and when you're not got it you make it as small as you possibly can. I learnt a lot from Cruyff. In those days you were only allowed two foreign players and, when a new coach came in, he wanted his own players.
"He played me on the wing so I'd get the hump and want to go. It was just a bit of a game and I had no problem with Johan. I liked him. He's a know-it all – about all things in life – but apart from that he was great. And he was always the best player in training. He was unbelievable, even then.""He played me on the wing so I'd get the hump and want to go. It was just a bit of a game and I had no problem with Johan. I liked him. He's a know-it all – about all things in life – but apart from that he was great. And he was always the best player in training. He was unbelievable, even then."
Lineker's face lights up again and, in such moments, his sheer love of football and deep immersion in the game resonates. "We've just had a slot that has been so much longer than MOTD," Lineker quips as we move into a third hour together. "But the last time MOTD disappeared people said how much they missed it. Of course they'll always pick holes in it. That's normal. It's football. But I can assure everyone we are continually striving to improve something that has been around forever."Lineker's face lights up again and, in such moments, his sheer love of football and deep immersion in the game resonates. "We've just had a slot that has been so much longer than MOTD," Lineker quips as we move into a third hour together. "But the last time MOTD disappeared people said how much they missed it. Of course they'll always pick holes in it. That's normal. It's football. But I can assure everyone we are continually striving to improve something that has been around forever."
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