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Interpreter at Mandela Memorial Says He Saw ‘Angels’ Interpreter at Mandela Memorial Says He Saw ‘Angels’
(35 minutes later)
PRETORIA, South Africa — A supposed sign-language interpreter accused of being a fraud after he stood beside President Obama and other global dignitaries at Nelson Mandela’s memorial service told a series of interviewers on Thursday that he was a schizophrenic with a tendency toward violence and had seen angels descending as he worked in the stadium where the event was held. PRETORIA, South Africa — A man accused of masquerading as a sign-language interpreter during Nelson Mandela’s memorial service, after he stood beside President Obama and other global dignitaries and gesticulated in gibberish, told interviewers on Thursday that he was a violence-prone schizophrenic and had seen angels descending in the stadium where the event was held.
The admissions by the man, Thamsanqa Jantjie, 34, whom sign language experts have labeled an impostor, added one more bizarre turn to a story that has raised questions about the security at the memorial ceremony and spread a pall of distraction and embarrassment over one of the most solemn moments in South Africa’s modern history. The assertions by the man, Thamsanqa Jantjie, 34, whom sign language experts have labeled an impostor, added one more bizarre turn to a story that has raised questions about the security at the memorial ceremony and spread a pall of distraction and embarrassment over one of South Africa’s most solemn moments.
With Mr. Mandela lying in state here for a second day as thousands formed lines to pay final respects, the government found itself in an awkward position, unable to explain how Mr. Jantjie had gotten the job while admitting it had paid a bargain rate for Mr. Jantjie to the company that supplied him, which in turn has “vanished into thin air.” With Mr. Mandela lying in state here for a second day as thousands waited in line to pay their final respects, the government found itself unable to explain Mr. Jantjie’s selection for the job, admitted it had paid a bargain rate for his services and asserted that the company that supplied him had “vanished into thin air.”
Hendrietta Bogopane-Zulu, the deputy minister for women, children and people with disabilities, told reporters that Mr. Jantjie’s first language was Xhosa, one of the most widespread among South Africa’s 11 official tongues. He is “not a professional sign language interpreter” and “the English was a bit too much for him,” she said. Hendrietta Bogopane-Zulu, the deputy minister for women, children and people with disabilities, told reporters that Mr. Jantjie’s first language was Xhosa, among the most widespread among South Africa’s 11 official tongues.
He was paid just $77 a day — a fraction of the usual rate of between $125 and $164 an hour, said Ms. Bogopane-Zulu, the first minister to break an official silence about the affair. “He could speak sign language with his peers, but he is not a professional sign language interpreter,” she said. “The English was a bit too much for him.”
Discussions about Mr. Jantjie dominated South Africa’s airwaves, talk shows and social media sites on Wednesday, the first day Mr. Mandela lay in state in a glass-canopied coffin on Wednesday as, the authorities said, some 20,000 people had filed by. Mr. Jantjie was paid $77 a day — a fraction of the usual rate of $125 to $164 an hour, said Ms. Bogopane-Zulu, the first minister to break an official silence about the affair.
By midday on Thursday, huge lines had formed again as thousands more people endured soaring temperatures and long delays to catch a glimpse of the former president, who took office for a single five-year term in 1994, sealing the demise of apartheid. After lying in state for one more day on Friday, his body is to be flown to the Eastern Cape region at the weekend for a state funeral in his childhood village of Qunu on Sunday. Discussions about Mr. Jantjie dominated South Africa’s airwaves, talk shows and social media sites on Wednesday, the first day Mr. Mandela lay in state in a glass-canopied coffin as, the authorities said, 20,000 people filed by.
At the national memorial for Mr. Mandela on Tuesday, Mr. Jantjie occupied a position close to center-stage on the podium, clad in a dark suit, with a blue security lanyard bearing the words “state funeral” around his neck, gesticulating in what was supposed to be sign language for the deaf. Tens of thousands of people in the stadium and hundreds of millions of television viewers around the world followed the event and his part in it. By midday on Thursday, huge lines had formed again as thousands more people endured soaring temperatures and long delays to catch a glimpse of the former president, who took office for a five-year term in 1994, sealing the demise of apartheid. After lying in state for one more day on Friday, his body is to be flown to the Eastern Cape region for a state funeral in his childhood village, Qunu, on Sunday.
But, he said on Thursday, even as a procession of leaders from Mr. Obama to Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, to President Jacob G. Zuma of South Africa delivered their eulogies, Mr. Jantjie’s mind was in turmoil with visions and hallucinations. At the national memorial for Mr. Mandela on Tuesday, Mr. Jantjie stood close to center-stage on the podium, clad in a dark suit, with a blue security lanyard bearing the words “state funeral” around his neck, gesticulating in what was supposed to be sign language for the deaf. The audience in the 93,000-seat stadium and hundreds of millions of television viewers around the world followed the event and his part in it.
But, as a procession of leaders from Mr. Obama to Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, to President Jacob G. Zuma of South Africa delivered their eulogies, Mr. Jantjie’s mind was in turmoil with visions and hallucinations, he said on Thursday.
“What happened that day, I see angels come to the stadium,” he told The Associated Press.“What happened that day, I see angels come to the stadium,” he told The Associated Press.
“I start realizing that the problem is here,” he said. “And the problem, I don’t know the attack of this problem, how will it come. Sometimes I get violent on that place. Sometimes I will see things chasing me.”“I start realizing that the problem is here,” he said. “And the problem, I don’t know the attack of this problem, how will it come. Sometimes I get violent on that place. Sometimes I will see things chasing me.”
“I was in a very difficult position,” Mr. Jantjie said. “And remember those people, the president and everyone, they were armed, there was armed police around me. If I start panicking I’ll start being a problem. I have to deal with this in a manner so that I mustn’t embarrass my country.”“I was in a very difficult position,” Mr. Jantjie said. “And remember those people, the president and everyone, they were armed, there was armed police around me. If I start panicking I’ll start being a problem. I have to deal with this in a manner so that I mustn’t embarrass my country.”
“I would like to tell everybody that if I have offended them, please forgive me,” he said. “I was doing what I believe makes a difference in the country.”“I would like to tell everybody that if I have offended them, please forgive me,” he said. “I was doing what I believe makes a difference in the country.”
At his home in Soweto, he provided a similar account to the BBC, saying angels had descended into the 94,000-plus capacity stadium, disrupting his work. “It was not something that was deliberate,” he said. At his home in Soweto, he provided a similar account to the BBC, saying he saw angels descending into the stadium, disrupting his work. “It was not something that was deliberate,” he said.
Speaking to The Star newspaper, Mr. Jantjie said: “There was nothing I could do. I was alone in a very dangerous situation. I tried to control myself and not show the world what was going on. I am very sorry. It’s the situation I found myself in.”Speaking to The Star newspaper, Mr. Jantjie said: “There was nothing I could do. I was alone in a very dangerous situation. I tried to control myself and not show the world what was going on. I am very sorry. It’s the situation I found myself in.”
In another interview, with Talk Radio 702 in Johannesburg, he defended his performance during the memorial.In another interview, with Talk Radio 702 in Johannesburg, he defended his performance during the memorial.
“Absolutely, absolutely. I think that I’ve been a champion of sign language,” he said, describing himself as “a patient receiving treatment in schizophrenia.”“Absolutely, absolutely. I think that I’ve been a champion of sign language,” he said, describing himself as “a patient receiving treatment in schizophrenia.”
His performance drew outrage from sign language experts who questioned how a man they depicted as an impostor who was clearly illiterate in the linguistic skills of signing could have pulled off such a stunt. There was no immediate medical corroboration that Mr. Jantjie was schizophrenic.
“This ‘fake interpreter’ has made a mockery of South African sign language and has disgraced the South African sign language-interpreting profession,” said Bruno Druchen, the national director of DeafSA, an advocacy organization for the deaf, said in a statement posted on the organization’s Facebook page. His performance has drawn outrage from sign language experts worldwide, who questioned how such a lapse had been even possible.
The statement listed the interpreter’s failings. He did not, for instance, use the established signs for Mr. Mandela or for President Zuma. His hand shapes were meaningless. He failed to use facial expressions, head movement, shoulder-raising or other body language considered integral elements of signing. In a statement Thursday, the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, Inc., an organization based in Alexandria, Va., that advocates strong standards for interpretation services, said in a statement that it had joined groups in South Africa and elsewhere in expressing disbelief. Dawn Whitcher, the registry’s president, said in a statement and sign-language video on its Facebook page that it was dismayed “at the incomprehensible interpreting services provided at the commemoration services honoring the life and legacy of Nelson Mandela.”
“It is a total mockery of the language,” the statement said. Ms. Bogopane-Zulu insisted that Mr. Jantjie had been vetted but said an investigation was underway into his security clearance. “I don’t think he was just picked up from the street,” she said. “He comes from a school for the deaf.”
On Thursday, Ms. Bogopane-Zulu insisted that Mr. Jantjie had been vetted but said an investigation was underway into his security clearance. “I don’t think he was just picked up from the street,” she said. “He comes from a school for the deaf.”
“He could speak sign language with his peers but he is not a professional sign language interpreter,” she said. “The English was a bit too much for him.”
Ms. Bogopane-Zulu said the owners of the company that supplied Mr. Jantjie had disappeared.Ms. Bogopane-Zulu said the owners of the company that supplied Mr. Jantjie had disappeared.
“We’ve managed to get hold of them,” she said, “and then we spoke to them wanting some answers and they vanished into thin air because it’s a clear indication that over the years they have managed to get away with this. They have been providing substandard sign language interpreting to many of their clients and nobody has picked up.” “We’ve managed to get hold of them,” she said, “and then we spoke to them wanting some answers and they vanished into thin air, because it’s a clear indication that over the years they have managed to get away with this. They have been providing substandard sign language interpreting to many of their clients, and nobody has picked up.”
The use of Mr. Jantjie was only one of a number of things that seemed to go wrong in the government’s organization of the memorial event, adding to the perception of sloppiness and haste in the preparations after Mr. Mandela died last week at age 95. Many South Africans who had wanted to attend complained that public transportation had failed, with buses that never arrived.

Nicholas Kulish reported from Pretoria, South Africa, John Eligon from Qunu, South Africa, and Alan Cowell from London.

The aftermath of Mr. Mandela’s death was also marked by news reports on Wednesday that burglars had broken into the Cape Town home of another revered figure in South Africa’s struggle against apartheid, Archbishop Desmond M. Tutu. The burglary took place while Archbishop Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, was attending the memorial service, according to the newspaper Cape Times.

Nicholas Kulish reported from from Pretoria, South Africa, John Eligon from Qunu, South Africa, and Alan Cowell from London.