Gulnara Karimova interview – edited transcript

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/uzbekistan-gulnara-karimova-interview-transcript

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You have spoken about a "terror" against you. Who is leading this terror and why?

Over many years there was a tendency for the most talented and independent people from art, culture, education, medicine, science, archaeology and theology to be concentrated around public organisations and projects that I introduced with my Fund Forum charity.

We established more than 40 foundations and projects over 10 years. The more people accumulated around us, the more we could feel resistance to it from some state structures, mainly the SNB [national security service]. It has taken control of everything lately, and has become the most important subject of the state.

I can tell you the truth that I didn't want to get into conflicts and didn't see many of the things that were disturbing many people, as I was busy working on real people's projects, grants and supporting professional societies. Some people were speaking loudly about it, but it took time to realise the reality we live in.

You are absolutely right with your term "leading the terror", as so many hardworking young people and their families were accused of fake crimes, or were taken from the streets without any info to the parents or kids.

Take the story of Yanis Golanos, a European citizen who was bullied out of a taxi by armed men in black leather jackets in the centre of the city. His sick wife and one-year-old kid were left devastated, as the passport of his wife was taken by a man in the same black leather jacket without any explanation. They stayed in fear for their life for three weeks before they found out that Yanis was alive and imprisoned. His wife was called to Gvardeyskaya – the scary SNB detention place where they can do anything with anyone, and people who were there tell the most awful stories about the place.

Much of the mutual "business" of the SNB is based on simple rackets, construction on some of the biggest plots and state tenders, all controlled by a group of top people in the SNB. They also have business on transit and cotton, which they control through secure money laundering companies.

You have claimed that you survived an attempted poisoning. Who do you think was behind this and why?

My mercury, silver and zinc levels are simply above and beyond any norms; both me and my son were diagnosed with poisoning by heavy metals. Since then I'm regularly on chelation therapy, every six months, and the results are still far from normal. I have symptoms, and they are not easy to cope with. Tests suggest the poisoning took place when we were in Uzbekistan at a school summer break with kids in 2011. There are only a few people who could have done it, because we were mostly spending time locally at home. I have some ideas about how it was done and by whom, but I don't know 100% yet who was involved, and who is behind the scenes.

How is all of this affecting your charity work inside Uzbekistan?

We should realise that as in many eastern societies, the existence of developed people with their own independent opinions is not too wide, and there are many statesmen who care only for obedience and full subordination. So, any pressure on enlightened free humans always has, so to say, inner support from insufficient people. And it's no surprise, that when even a small crack is seen in our charity and youth activities, there were people ready to throw rumours and dirt all over it. There was a lot done to scare people off doing anything for the charity.

How often do you speak with your father and what's his role in all that is going on for the past few months?

I never fought with my dad in any way. We haven't had any arguments recently. Everything started with the BBC interview of my sister. He was pretty upset when I mentioned the BBC interview, and the answers which in my opinion were damaging to his name.

My character was very colourfully drawn in the most awful and unbelievably cheap articles claiming to be about me by an internet site named Zamondosh. It was shown to my dad as part of a carefully prepared plan to harm him and to destroy me. It was prepared specially to cause chaos, but what my dad doesn't know is that the internet site was established by a few people from the national security service, a colonel and trusted high official in SNB security services, and a representative member of the local Uzbek Interpol office.

It is obviously related to big money. There is a rule that if people get financially big, they will definitely try to get power as well. But when you are on such a "difficult" road, you will use every possible and impossible way to reach your goal, so disinformation about my public work seems a very natural step for them.

Are your sister and mother part of this same group?

I guess they are. Their goals are obviously the same, and nothing unites people better than one aim. It's an ironic and serious question at the same time. I would rather not talk about it as it hurts me to accept that for the sake of tomorrow people can betray their close ones today. But things usually change with money and politics or power. Envy or jealousy always destroys unity, even inside one household.

Is there any foreign involvement from Russia or western countries in the current situation?

I would avoid making definitive statements in this mess, but I would not exclude such involvement. There are certain facts which could suggest this, but not enough to be sure yet.

Moreover, as we have experienced for many years, everything usually starts on your own native soil, because nobody could be as motivated as the people who will benefit the most in the case of winning. So, you don't have to be a genius to guess why and what is happening now and what story it's a part of.

The reports in the media about your fights with your father, or that there was physical violence, are they false?

Oh my God, that is still a question?! This situation happened at the beginning of all this mess, right at the end of our famous cultural project, Art Week Style.uz. A few words about that moment, and what it meant for me not to lose myself. It has been running since 2006 and each year it gets bigger and bigger, and more recognisable among the fashion community. We usually have around 50,000 visitors and around 100 international guests of honour.

So, you can imagine how much pressure we had on our team when certain people started to act with the support of my mom. She was on the phone with them every day, sending envelopes back and forward and we started to lose some people from our radar. They were not too active during Art Week as we had a lot of different media present from all over the world. So, I had to look and act accordingly as I never thought that everything will be that ugly.

I guess I just didn't want to believe even when I saw fake news about me. In those moments the easiest and cheapest way to destabilise the public is to make up the simplest dumbest story, which could be swallowed easily by wide segment of society. And that is what was done.

You said your father was upset with BBC interview, and also upset with fake stories about you. What is his position now? Has he taken a side?

As I already partially answered that question, I'll try to complete the whole picture. To understand it more precisely you have to keep in mind that an interview to the BBC is a highly political move, and not at all what was declared by my sister, that she is "protecting herself from defamation in the press". It was an obvious pre-election or political statement typically used by PR companies in the western countries, but not in our part of the world. Building an image of a good family. She said: "For now I don't see my development as a politician, as for now my main priority is my family, husband and kids." She put the stress on "for now"!

All of this was topped off with a shocking and populist line about my dad, betraying her roots. She said that by pressing charges against the internet site that called her a "dictator's daughter", she didn't try to challenge the use of the word dictator, "as I understand that this is a political term and the media have an undeniable right to their opinion and position".

My father is very upset about it, and said lately that this all is related to politics, but he still doesn't know that much about it. Regarding taking sides, I strongly believe that no father can really be comfortable picking one of two river sides. In my opinion that is a weird thing to ask the guy to do. Usually the river of life is very rough and wavy, and that is also for a reason. Any stone, even a very big one appearing on the path of that river will sink. It is only matter of time.

Do you have any political or presidential ambitions?

I would like to confirm once again that I never ever stated any "political or presidential ambitions". And I should make it very clear again for all those who worry a lot right now.

Do you plan to stay in Uzbekistan or might you leave soon?

I love Uzbekistan. I love the people and the further they are from money and politics the more I feel comfortable with them. In the summer I travelled to Fergana Valley to the ancient city of Kokand. I enjoyed it more than St Tropez or something like that.

What do you say to critics of yours who say you cannot complain about human rights now, when you have never criticised the regime before?

I only do things I believe in, or talk about things I saw myself or know about. But once I'm sure that this is the only right thing to do I put everything into it, and do it accordingly with passion. You can hate or love as long as it's with full belief and passion. I've never tried to run in front of the train, as we say, and neither do I do it now, I just speak out about what I see and what I don't accept for developed educated society (notice that I don't throw fancy words around such as "democratic"). You have to be a human and respect that in others.

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