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Philomena Lee on meeting the Pope: 'Those nuns would be jealous now' Philomena Lee on meeting the Pope: 'Those nuns would be jealous now'
(2 months later)
Philomena Lee, whose search for the son sold by nuns to America when he was three years old inspired an Oscar-nominated film, has said that meeting Pope Francis has helped her find closure.Philomena Lee, whose search for the son sold by nuns to America when he was three years old inspired an Oscar-nominated film, has said that meeting Pope Francis has helped her find closure.
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"I felt such a sense of relief yesterday for the guilt I carried and that I still carry a little bit today," said Lee on Thursday, a day after the audience. "Because you were made to feel so, so bad about having a baby out of wedlock."I felt such a sense of relief yesterday for the guilt I carried and that I still carry a little bit today," said Lee on Thursday, a day after the audience. "Because you were made to feel so, so bad about having a baby out of wedlock.
"He really made me feel so good inside because I carried the guilt inside me for 50 years, without telling anybody.""He really made me feel so good inside because I carried the guilt inside me for 50 years, without telling anybody."
Lee, 80, attended mass on Wednesday morning with her daughter, Jane Libbteron, before their brief meeting with the pope. Also with them was Steve Coogan, 48, who co-wrote, produced and co-starred in the film, which is in the running for four Academy Awards.Lee, 80, attended mass on Wednesday morning with her daughter, Jane Libbteron, before their brief meeting with the pope. Also with them was Steve Coogan, 48, who co-wrote, produced and co-starred in the film, which is in the running for four Academy Awards.
For Lee, said Coogan, the encounter was "part of a perfect catharsis", which few of her contemporaries at Ireland's mother and baby homes have been able to enjoy.For Lee, said Coogan, the encounter was "part of a perfect catharsis", which few of her contemporaries at Ireland's mother and baby homes have been able to enjoy.
"She said everything right," he said. "Though at one point she did say - with humour - 'Those nuns would be so jealous of me now.""She said everything right," he said. "Though at one point she did say - with humour - 'Those nuns would be so jealous of me now."
Coogan found Pope Francis, who has been in office for 11 months, "benevolent and approachable" with a "light casualness".Coogan found Pope Francis, who has been in office for 11 months, "benevolent and approachable" with a "light casualness".
"He's a very attractive figure. He clearly has a charisma; he laughs a lot and smiles a lot and he has a thing on top of his cap so he can easily doff it.""He's a very attractive figure. He clearly has a charisma; he laughs a lot and smiles a lot and he has a thing on top of his cap so he can easily doff it."
Coogan also rejected accusations that their trip to Italy was in the service of publicity ahead of next month's Oscars. Speaking to the Guardian at the end of the 48-hour expedition, Coogan said: "Sometimes what is politically adept can also be the right thing to do."Coogan also rejected accusations that their trip to Italy was in the service of publicity ahead of next month's Oscars. Speaking to the Guardian at the end of the 48-hour expedition, Coogan said: "Sometimes what is politically adept can also be the right thing to do."
The actor added that the meeting was not the brainchild of super-producer Harvey Weinstein. "Harvey was supportive but he didn't want to get involved. And we didn't really want him to because we wanted this to be a very pure initiative."The actor added that the meeting was not the brainchild of super-producer Harvey Weinstein. "Harvey was supportive but he didn't want to get involved. And we didn't really want him to because we wanted this to be a very pure initiative."
The audience came about through Lee establishing the Philomena Project, which lobbies for open access to adoption records, and that organisation teaming up with the Adoption Alliance in Ireland. It was they who put the wheels in motion, although the film's director, Stephen Frears, had been the first to suggest the pope should see the film. Any risk of such a move being seen as opportunistic, said Coogan, was worth taking. "The alternative is to do nothing. And if you do nothing no-one gets helped."The audience came about through Lee establishing the Philomena Project, which lobbies for open access to adoption records, and that organisation teaming up with the Adoption Alliance in Ireland. It was they who put the wheels in motion, although the film's director, Stephen Frears, had been the first to suggest the pope should see the film. Any risk of such a move being seen as opportunistic, said Coogan, was worth taking. "The alternative is to do nothing. And if you do nothing no-one gets helped."
The meeting came less than a day after a Vatican spokesperson dismissed rumours it would happen. Said Father Lombardi: "The Holy Father does not see films, and will not be seeing this one. It is also important to avoid using the Pope as part of a marketing strategy."The meeting came less than a day after a Vatican spokesperson dismissed rumours it would happen. Said Father Lombardi: "The Holy Father does not see films, and will not be seeing this one. It is also important to avoid using the Pope as part of a marketing strategy."
Coogan reports that it was the pope himself who "gave the green light" for Lee to be invited. In conversation on Tuesday with Bishop Sanchez and the Pope's private secretary, Coogan was told that the film was "entirely in keeping with the tone of the Pope's approach".Coogan reports that it was the pope himself who "gave the green light" for Lee to be invited. In conversation on Tuesday with Bishop Sanchez and the Pope's private secretary, Coogan was told that the film was "entirely in keeping with the tone of the Pope's approach".
A more forthright response from the Vatican condemning the actions of the nuns was, he thinks, not a possibility. "They've got to be politically adept. There are clearly lots of nice, benign, kind nuns who'd be a bit miffed to be lumped in with all the others."A more forthright response from the Vatican condemning the actions of the nuns was, he thinks, not a possibility. "They've got to be politically adept. There are clearly lots of nice, benign, kind nuns who'd be a bit miffed to be lumped in with all the others."
Yet they were left in no doubt, says Coogan, that the pope's sympathies lay with the film-makers. "When I mentioned some of the attacks from the church in America to Bishop Sanchez he didn't seem at all bothered. With a wave of his hand he made it clear they were not relevant. This wasn't nebulous chit-chat; it was quite substantive.Yet they were left in no doubt, says Coogan, that the pope's sympathies lay with the film-makers. "When I mentioned some of the attacks from the church in America to Bishop Sanchez he didn't seem at all bothered. With a wave of his hand he made it clear they were not relevant. This wasn't nebulous chit-chat; it was quite substantive.
"We'd been saying: 'How will this change things in Ireland?' They said: 'The very fact we're having this screening in the Vatican is significant. Don't underestimate that.'""We'd been saying: 'How will this change things in Ireland?' They said: 'The very fact we're having this screening in the Vatican is significant. Don't underestimate that.'"
The frank criticisms contained in Philomena, which traces the journey of Lee (played by Judi Dench), to track down her son with the help of journalist Martin Sixsmith (played Coogan), made the Vatican's willingness to embrace it more striking. "This wasn't a man-the-barricades kickback. It was like: 'That's fair enough.' There's an old-fashioned mindset that criticism of anything religious is by definition insulting. That's changed."The frank criticisms contained in Philomena, which traces the journey of Lee (played by Judi Dench), to track down her son with the help of journalist Martin Sixsmith (played Coogan), made the Vatican's willingness to embrace it more striking. "This wasn't a man-the-barricades kickback. It was like: 'That's fair enough.' There's an old-fashioned mindset that criticism of anything religious is by definition insulting. That's changed."
Coogan first learnt of Lee's story through an article by Sixsmith about the investigation. At the time the actor was in New York shooting cop comedy The Other Guys. "I keep thinking of myself sitting at that table looking for anything of substance."Coogan first learnt of Lee's story through an article by Sixsmith about the investigation. At the time the actor was in New York shooting cop comedy The Other Guys. "I keep thinking of myself sitting at that table looking for anything of substance."
That the film which resulted has now triggered real-world change has been an unanticipated bonus. "I'm glad to find cinema can still affect things."That the film which resulted has now triggered real-world change has been an unanticipated bonus. "I'm glad to find cinema can still affect things."
The Magdalene Sisters, Peter Mullan's acclaimed 2002 film, afforded similar subject matter less mainstream treatment. "It's a very powerful film, but neither the people who agreed with its premise nor the people who saw it as an affront had their minds changed," says Coogan.The Magdalene Sisters, Peter Mullan's acclaimed 2002 film, afforded similar subject matter less mainstream treatment. "It's a very powerful film, but neither the people who agreed with its premise nor the people who saw it as an affront had their minds changed," says Coogan.
"I think Philomena was angry in the right places. I want films that in some way say something positive. I'm bored shitless by nihilism and post-modernism. It's a busted flush. Every kind of media is just drowning in its own irony.""I think Philomena was angry in the right places. I want films that in some way say something positive. I'm bored shitless by nihilism and post-modernism. It's a busted flush. Every kind of media is just drowning in its own irony."
After serving as an altar boy, Coogan, whose parents are still devout, moved away from Catholicism. A return to faith is unlikely, he thinks. "But the empowerment and enfranchisement of the poor – all those things Jesus Christ stood for – are values I share."After serving as an altar boy, Coogan, whose parents are still devout, moved away from Catholicism. A return to faith is unlikely, he thinks. "But the empowerment and enfranchisement of the poor – all those things Jesus Christ stood for – are values I share."