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Nick Clegg clashes with Nigel Farage in EU debate Nick Clegg clashes with Nigel Farage in EU debate
(35 minutes later)
Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have clashed over who is telling the truth about EU immigration.Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage have clashed over who is telling the truth about EU immigration.
The pair are taking part in a live TV and radio debate about whether Britain should stay in the European Union. The pair were taking part in a live TV and radio debate about whether Britain should stay in the European Union.
Mr Clegg - who wants Britain to stay in - said the UKIP leader's claims about how many Romanians and Bulgarians might come to the UK were "simply not true".Mr Clegg - who wants Britain to stay in - said the UKIP leader's claims about how many Romanians and Bulgarians might come to the UK were "simply not true".
But Mr Farage denied this and said EU immigration was costing Britons' jobs and driving down wages.But Mr Farage denied this and said EU immigration was costing Britons' jobs and driving down wages.
Mr Clegg brandished a UKIP leaflet from the Eastleigh by-election, saying its claim that 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians were poised to come to the UK - a claim he said was wrong and a "scare" tactic. The exchanges on Europe were the most heated in the hour-long debate, which ranged across trade, the human rights act, the EU referendum, gay marriage and political integrity among other things.
Referendum call 'Scare' tactics
BBC chief political correspondent Norman Smith said "there was no 'knockout blow" and both men had given a good account of themselves and their case.
Mr Clegg - who stared down the TV lens during the his opening statement as he did during the 2010 election debates - made jobs the centre of his pitch to the audience.
Mr Farage said EU immigration had cost Britons' jobs and driven down wages.
The UKIP leader made a few jokes - but it was an earnest, and at times, impassioned battle of wits between two politicians who despite being former colleagues as MEPs in Brussels are diametrically opposed on the European Union.
The UKIP leader attacked Mr Clegg for being part of the political elite who has "never had a proper job" but the pair mostly steered clear of personal attacks.
Mr Clegg brandished a UKIP leaflet from the Eastleigh by-election, highlighting its claim that 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians were poised to come to the UK - a claim he said was wrong and a "scare" tactic.
Mr Farage said: "I am not claiming 29 million have the right to come to Britain, I am saying 485 million people have the total, unconditional right to come to this country."Mr Farage said: "I am not claiming 29 million have the right to come to Britain, I am saying 485 million people have the total, unconditional right to come to this country."
Mr Clegg hit back, saying immigration was good for the economy and denied the UKIP leader's claims that it was uncontrolled.Mr Clegg hit back, saying immigration was good for the economy and denied the UKIP leader's claims that it was uncontrolled.
"I am not prepared to see anyone lose their job on the altar of Nigel Farage's anti-European dogma," he said."I am not prepared to see anyone lose their job on the altar of Nigel Farage's anti-European dogma," he said.
The hour-long clash - ahead of May's European elections - is being broadcast live on radio and television. 'Crumbling EU'
Mr Clegg began by saying Britain had to stay in the EU in to protect jobs and Britain's status in the world. On trade, Mr Farage claimed the deputy prime minister "did not think Britain was good enough" to strike its own trade deals with countries like India and China.
Mr Farage said Britain had to leave to regain control of its borders and to regain its ability to make its own laws. But Mr Clegg said: "We get more clout by operating through the world's biggest economy."
The hour-long clash - ahead of May's European elections - was broadcast live on radio and television.
The UKIP leader won the coin toss (of a pound coin) to decide who made their opening statement first, but said: "I will ask Nick to open the batting."The UKIP leader won the coin toss (of a pound coin) to decide who made their opening statement first, but said: "I will ask Nick to open the batting."
The pair began with a question on why the British people could not be trusted to have a say in a referendum on EU membership. "Make no mistake - if we cut ourselves off from Europe, from the countries that we trade with more than anyone else, then our hard-won economic recovery will simply be thrown away," said Mr Clegg.
He said he wanted "a Britain that leads in the world by standing tall in our own European backyard, a Britain prepared to work with other countries on the things we can't possibly sort out on our own."
Mr Clegg said: "We are better off in Europe - richer, stronger, safer - and that's why I will fight to keep us in, for the sake of jobs, for the sake of our clout in the world, for the sake of Britain."
But Mr Farage replied: "This debate is between a tired status quo defending a crumbling EU that frankly isn't working any more, and a fresh approach that says let's be friendly with Europe, let's trade with Europe, but let's not be governed by their institutions."
The UKIP leader said that if Britain was voting now on whether to join the EU, it would be presented with the offer "to join a club that will cost £55 million a day as a membership fee, and there will be thousands of new laws over which our own Parliament and you the electorate can make no difference, and mean an open border, unconditionally, to 485 million people from across the whole of Europe - many of them form very poor countries - who can come here to work and live and settle and bring their families".
He said that the UK would also be told it would have to cut links with the Commonwealth and other English-speaking countries as a result of joining the club.
And he told the audience: "I know the result of that referendum: You wouldn't join it."
Referendum call
The pair then moved on to a question on why the British people could not be trusted to have a say in a referendum on EU membership.
Mr Clegg said a referendum was "legally guaranteed" when there was a transfer of power to Brussels.Mr Clegg said a referendum was "legally guaranteed" when there was a transfer of power to Brussels.
Mr Farage hit back by saying, of Mr Clegg and the Westminster party leaders, that "no one believes you are actually going to deliver" and it was up to UKIP to force the issue, calling for a public vote before the next general election.Mr Farage hit back by saying, of Mr Clegg and the Westminster party leaders, that "no one believes you are actually going to deliver" and it was up to UKIP to force the issue, calling for a public vote before the next general election.
He also turned his fire on David Cameron, highlighting what he said were Conservative splits on Europe, and added that things in the Labour Party were not as "serene" as Ed Miliband liked to suggest.He also turned his fire on David Cameron, highlighting what he said were Conservative splits on Europe, and added that things in the Labour Party were not as "serene" as Ed Miliband liked to suggest.
The first EU debate is being hosted by radio station LBC. On 2 April, round two will be televised live at the same time on BBC Two. The first EU debate was hosted by radio station LBC. On 2 April, round two will be televised live at the same time on BBC Two.
Audience questions
Mr Clegg and Mr Farage will both be hoping to bolster their parties' fortunes in May's elections to the European Parliament.
Strict arrangements for the conduct of the debate have been put in place, as they were ahead of the televised 2010 general election leaders' debates.
Questions from the audience, which has been selected to reflect the UK population as well as a range of views on the EU, were screened by an editorial panel but the parties did not see them in advance.
The party leaders will both make closing statements and will have one minute to answer each question from the audience before presenter Nick Ferrari opens up the subjects raised to debate.
In an article for the Daily Mirror, Mr Clegg, a former East Midlands MEP who speaks French, German, Spanish and Dutch, said it was easy to attack the EU.
"It's easily presented as a distant set of institutions, making decisions for us from overseas. It's not always clear what happens there, who the politicians are, or how it benefits us," he wrote.
"This is why so many mistruths have been allowed to fester.
"Tonight, when I debate with Nigel Farage, I want to give the British people the facts - so that you can make up your own minds about whether or not Britain should remain in the EU."
Speaking on Wednesday, Mr Farage said he had been seeking a platform for a "proper" debate about the UK's relationship with Europe for more than 20 years.
"I am doing this through a heartfelt conviction that the best people to govern Britain are the British themselves," he said.
"I am not anti-Europe. I love Europe. I want to trade with Europe, co-operate with Europe but we must and we should run our own country."
The UKIP leader said he would not "underestimate" the deputy prime minister after his performance in the 2010 general election leaders' debates.
"Nick Clegg is a capable performer. He showed that against the other two leaders just a few years ago.
"But he cannot answer the fundamental question - why have we got an open border to nearly 500 million people and that in the end is the biggest question."
'Lightweight'
The BBC's Political Editor Nick Robinson said both men could emerge as "winners" since they both lead small parties which thrive on publicity and need to energise their activists ahead of May's elections.
But he said the debates would not change the fact that the earliest a referendum on Europe will take place is 2017 and that is far from guaranteed to happen.
Prime Minister David Cameron, who has promised an in-out referendum if the Conservatives win the next election and Labour leader Ed Miliband, who says he will only sanction a referendum if further powers are handed to Brussels, have opted not to take part in the debates.Prime Minister David Cameron, who has promised an in-out referendum if the Conservatives win the next election and Labour leader Ed Miliband, who says he will only sanction a referendum if further powers are handed to Brussels, have opted not to take part in the debates.
Labour's shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said Wednesday's encounter was "a lightweight battle between two men who will never be prime minister".Labour's shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said Wednesday's encounter was "a lightweight battle between two men who will never be prime minister".
* There will be full live coverage in video and text of the two debates on the BBC News website and both debates are being shown live on the BBC News Channel
How do you see the UK's place in the EU? Deputy leader Nick Clegg and UKIP leader Nigel Farage are debating the issue tonight live on LBC and the BBC's News Channel. The debate starts at 1900 GMT. BBC Radio 4's Today programme will be discussing the debate on Thursday morning in Salford. If you would like to take part email us at haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk adding 'Clegg and Farage debate' in the subject heading and include your contact details.How do you see the UK's place in the EU? Deputy leader Nick Clegg and UKIP leader Nigel Farage are debating the issue tonight live on LBC and the BBC's News Channel. The debate starts at 1900 GMT. BBC Radio 4's Today programme will be discussing the debate on Thursday morning in Salford. If you would like to take part email us at haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk adding 'Clegg and Farage debate' in the subject heading and include your contact details.