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Clegg 'shocked' by Farage's stance on Ukraine Clegg 'shocked' by Farage's stance on Ukraine
(35 minutes later)
Nick Clegg has gone on the attack following his EU debate with Nigel Farage, accusing the UKIP leader of "siding with Putin" on Ukraine.Nick Clegg has gone on the attack following his EU debate with Nigel Farage, accusing the UKIP leader of "siding with Putin" on Ukraine.
At the end of their hour-long clash, Mr Farage said the EU had "blood on its hands" for encouraging revolution.At the end of their hour-long clash, Mr Farage said the EU had "blood on its hands" for encouraging revolution.
Mr Clegg, speaking on his weekly LBC radio show, said he was "shocked" by the UKIP leader's comments, which he would raise at the pair's next debate.Mr Clegg, speaking on his weekly LBC radio show, said he was "shocked" by the UKIP leader's comments, which he would raise at the pair's next debate.
A YouGov poll for The Sun suggested that by 57% to 36% Mr Farage had won. A YouGov poll for The Sun suggested Mr Farage had won by 57% to 36%.
Mr Farage will get a chance to react to the debate on Friday, when he takes part in an LBC phone-in - and the pair will stage another debate on whether Britain should stay in the EU on 2 April, which will be shown on BBC Two.Mr Farage will get a chance to react to the debate on Friday, when he takes part in an LBC phone-in - and the pair will stage another debate on whether Britain should stay in the EU on 2 April, which will be shown on BBC Two.
Most newspapers declared the UKIP leader the winner of the first round, taking their cue from the YouGov poll.Most newspapers declared the UKIP leader the winner of the first round, taking their cue from the YouGov poll.
Former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown said Nick Clegg, Nigel Farage and the British public all winners after their first televised EU debate. Mr Clegg and Mr Farage avoided personal attacks during their debate, trading blows over statistics instead - and the likely impact on the economy of Britain leaving the EU.
He said Mr Farage had "debated at the highest level" and done so with "passion and confidence" and Mr Cegg had shown himself to be a "politician of courage" and was now the acknowledged leader of those who want to see Britain stay in Europe. The UKIP leader rubbished his rival's claim that quitting the EU would cost three million jobs, saying it was based on out-of-date, discredited research, and Mr Clegg disputed the UKIP man's claim that 75% of Britain's laws were made in Brussels, suggesting Mr Farage had made the figure up.
But he disputed the post-debate poll's suggestion that Mr Clegg had outperformed both his party's standing and the general public's pro-European views. They also clashed over who was telling the truth about EU immigration and Mr Farage's claim that 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians have the right to come to the UK.
He told the BBC: "That suggests a debating success - but I think the British public won because this was a debate that must be held about our country's future." They also debated the impact Britain's exit from the EU would have on Britain's standing in the world.
The two "unequivocal losers", he said, were the Conservatives and Labour who were "too divided" to turn up and argue their case. Asked why countries like Ukraine was keen to build closer ties with the EU, which he had described as a "failed" institution, Mr Farage said: "We should hang our heads in shame.
Former UKIP leader Lord Pearson praised Mr Clegg for suggesting the debate but said Mr Farage had won and said "his arguments had resonance with the British people and I think they will continue to do so". "The British government has actually geed up the EU to pursue effectively an imperialist, expansionist - and even Mr Barroso the commission president once said we are building an empire.
The two men took part in a live TV and radio debate about whether Britain should stay in the European Union on Wednesday evening, hosted by LBC radio. "We have given a false series of hopes to a group of people in the western Ukraine. So geed up were they that they actually toppled their own elected leader.
Exchanges on immigration were the most heated in the hour-long debate, which ranged across trade, the Human Rights Act, the EU referendum, gay marriage and political integrity among other things. "That provoked Mr Putin. I think the EU frankly does have blood on its hands in the Ukraine. And I don't want a European army, navy, air force or a European foreign policy. It has not been a thing for good in the Ukraine."
BBC chief political correspondent Norman Smith said there was "no knockout blow" and both men had given a good account of themselves and their case. Reacting to the comments on LBC on Thursday, Mr Clegg said: "I was extraordinarily surprised and shocked to find he agrees with Vladimir Putin, that because of Nigel Farage's loathing of the European Union that is the reason why Ukrainian protesters sought to reclaim their own freedom and their own country on the streets of Kiev."
Mr Clegg - who stared down the TV lens to address viewers directly, as he did during the 2010 election debates - made jobs the centre of his pitch to the audience. He added: "I just think it's really insulting to those people in Kiev who were simply standing up for values that we should share and support, of democracy, of autonomy, of them being able to determine their own fate and for Nigel Farage to side with Vladimir Putin, well he'll have to explain why he did that. I was astounded he did so."
Mr Farage, who addressed his answers to the audience in the hall and to the moderator Nick Ferrari, said Britain needed to regain control of its own laws and borders, saying the the European Union was a "failed project" and it was time to leave it. "It shows quite how extreme people can be, like Nigel Farage, when their loathing of the European Union becomes so all-consuming that they even end up siding with Vladimir Putin."
He also hit out at the EU's role in the Ukraine crisis, saying: "We should hang our head in shame - we have given false hope - the EU does have blood on its hands in the Ukraine." But former UKIP leader Lord Pearson said Mr Farage was "justified in what he said", adding: "It is the EU's territorial ambitions which led them to offer the Ukraine an association agreement."
The UKIP leader made a few jokes - but it was an earnest, and at times, impassioned battle of wits between two politicians who despite being former colleagues as MEPs in Brussels are diametrically opposed on the European Union. Former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown said Mr Farage had shown "inexperience" in world affairs, but praised the UKIP leader for debating "at the highest level" with "passion and confidence".
Mr Farage criticised Mr Clegg for being part of the political elite who had "never had a proper job" but the pair mostly steered clear of personal attacks. He said Mr Farage, Nick Clegg and the public had all been the winners after their first televised EU debate, and the two "unequivocal losers", were the Conservatives and Labour who were "too divided" to turn up and argue their case.
Mr Clegg brandished a UKIP leaflet from the Eastleigh by-election, highlighting its claim that 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians were poised to come to the UK - a claim he said was wrong and a "scare" tactic. In his opening remarks on Wednesday evening, Mr Clegg said "a Britain that leads in the world by standing tall in our own European backyard, a Britain prepared to work with other countries on the things we can't possibly sort out on our own."
Mr Farage said: "I am not claiming 29 million have the right to come to Britain, I am saying 485 million people have the total, unconditional right to come to this country." The Lib Dem leader added: "We are better off in Europe - richer, stronger, safer - and that's why I will fight to keep us in, for the sake of jobs, for the sake of our clout in the world, for the sake of Britain."
He said the accession of eastern European countries to the EU meant that "for hundreds of thousands of people, working in trades like the building industry, we have had a massive over-supply of labour and you've seen your wages go down over the last 10 years as the cost of living has gone up and that is not fair on working people in this country."
Mr Clegg hit back, saying immigration was good for the economy - claiming the NHS would "collapse" without foreign workers - and denied the UKIP leader's claims that it was uncontrolled.
"I am not prepared to see anyone lose their job on the altar of Nigel Farage's anti-European dogma," he said.
'Crumbling EU'
On trade, Mr Farage said "people like Nick don't think Britain is good enough" to strike its own deals with countries like India and China.
The UKIP leader said the UK was now "the eurozone's biggest export market in the world" and would hold "the whip hand" in obtaining good terms in any trade negotiations following exit.
But Mr Clegg said: "It's not the 1950s, we can't turn the clock back.
"We have got new powers on the world stage - Brazil, China, India - and we get more clout by being part of the world's biggest economy."
He said he wanted "a Britain that leads in the world by standing tall in our own European backyard, a Britain prepared to work with other countries on the things we can't possibly sort out on our own."
Mr Clegg said: "We are better off in Europe - richer, stronger, safer - and that's why I will fight to keep us in, for the sake of jobs, for the sake of our clout in the world, for the sake of Britain."
But Mr Farage replied: "This debate is between a tired status quo defending a crumbling EU that frankly isn't working any more, and a fresh approach that says let's be friendly with Europe, let's trade with Europe, but let's not be governed by their institutions."But Mr Farage replied: "This debate is between a tired status quo defending a crumbling EU that frankly isn't working any more, and a fresh approach that says let's be friendly with Europe, let's trade with Europe, but let's not be governed by their institutions."
Prime Minister David Cameron, who has promised an in-out referendum if the Conservatives win the next election and Labour leader Ed Miliband, who says he will only sanction a referendum if further powers are handed to Brussels, have opted not to take part in the debates.Prime Minister David Cameron, who has promised an in-out referendum if the Conservatives win the next election and Labour leader Ed Miliband, who says he will only sanction a referendum if further powers are handed to Brussels, have opted not to take part in the debates.
Conservative minister Anna Soubry said Mr Cameron's decision not to take part was "not really of any relevance at all" and "the real question" was who could deliver a referendum.Conservative minister Anna Soubry said Mr Cameron's decision not to take part was "not really of any relevance at all" and "the real question" was who could deliver a referendum.
Labour's shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said it had been an "amusing" debate but did not mean much to ordinary voters worried about the cost of living.Labour's shadow Cabinet Office minister Jon Ashworth said it had been an "amusing" debate but did not mean much to ordinary voters worried about the cost of living.
For the Scottish National Party, MSP Aileen McLeod said: "Scotland's always been much more pro-European than other parts of the UKFor the Scottish National Party, MSP Aileen McLeod said: "Scotland's always been much more pro-European than other parts of the UK
"Our interests are best served by being part and parcel of the EU.""Our interests are best served by being part and parcel of the EU."
Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood added: "There are one in 10 jobs in Wales reliant on our membership. Civic society in Wales is united in wanting Wales to remain as a member of the EU. Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood said the two men were "not really focussing on Wales's interests, and Wales's part in this debate".
"So the debate that took place tonight was one that wasn't really focussing on Wales's interests, and Wales's part in this debate."