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Phone-hacking trial: Andy Coulson 'unaware' of Milly phone hack Phone-hacking trial: Andy Coulson 'unaware' of Milly phone hack
(about 1 hour later)
Andy Coulson has told the hacking trial he was not party to any decision to hack murdered Milly Dowler's phone - and rejected claims he was a bully. Andy Coulson, the former editor of the News of the World, has said he was unaware murdered Milly Dowler's mobile phone had been hacked by the paper.
The ex-News of the World editor said he had been "aware of" hacking in "vague terms" but said he had not known it was illegal when Milly's phone was hacked. He had not at the time known it was illegal to access someone else's voicemail, but would have thought it "intrusive" and lazy", he told the Old Bailey jury.
Had he known it was going on he would have viewed it as "lazy journalism". He also denied he was a bully.
Mr Coulson, 46, denies conspiracy to hack phones and conspiracy to commit misconduct in a public office.Mr Coulson, 46, denies conspiracy to hack phones and conspiracy to commit misconduct in a public office.
The Old Bailey has previously heard that Mr Coulson was in charge of the newspaper in April 2002 - when murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler's phone was hacked - as editor Rebekah Brooks was on holiday.The Old Bailey has previously heard that Mr Coulson was in charge of the newspaper in April 2002 - when murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler's phone was hacked - as editor Rebekah Brooks was on holiday.
The hacking was carried out by private investigator Glenn Mulcaire, whom the trial previously heard was paid about £100,000 a year by the newspaper.The hacking was carried out by private investigator Glenn Mulcaire, whom the trial previously heard was paid about £100,000 a year by the newspaper.
Mr Coulson resigned from the News of the World following the conviction of Mulcaire and the tabloid's former royal editor Clive Goodman for phone hacking.Mr Coulson resigned from the News of the World following the conviction of Mulcaire and the tabloid's former royal editor Clive Goodman for phone hacking.
'Intrusive''Intrusive'
Mr Coulson, who later worked as Downing Street director of communications, said he had been aware of rumours of phone hacking at the time but said stories of hacking had been "in the ether".
When asked by his barrister, Timothy Langdale QC, whether he had been aware of any hacking by his paper in relation to Milly Dowler, he replied: "No I was not."When asked by his barrister, Timothy Langdale QC, whether he had been aware of any hacking by his paper in relation to Milly Dowler, he replied: "No I was not."
Asked whether, given that he did not know at the time that hacking was a crime, he "would have had any problems with it", he replied: "I would have thought it was intrusive. Milly was 13 when she vanished as she walked home from school in Walton-on-Thames in March 2002. Her remains were found six months later in woods in Hampshire.
"I would have thought that it was a breach of privacy, and I also would have thought that it was lazy journalism." The first edition of the newspaper on 14 April 2002 - while the search for Milly was ongoing - referred to material contained in voicemails on the teenager's phone.
The first edition of the newspaper on 14 April 2002 referred to material contained in voicemails on Milly's phone - but the references were subsequently removed in later editions. However, the references were subsequently removed in later editions.
Mr Coulson said the story had been altered and moved from page nine to page 30 by the third edition for "cosmetic reasons" - "the mix" of serious and lighter stories was wrong - and not, as the prosecution have suggested, to conceal references to voicemail hacking. Giving evidence for a second day, Mr Coulson said the 14 April story had been altered and moved from page nine to page 30 by the third edition for "cosmetic reasons".
He said "the mix" of serious and lighter stories was wrong and denied, as the prosecution have suggested, the decision was made to conceal references to voicemail hacking.
He said he would have viewed it as a "pretty unremarkable" story and it would not have occurred to him from the content that anybody at the News of the World may have hacked into Milly's messages.He said he would have viewed it as a "pretty unremarkable" story and it would not have occurred to him from the content that anybody at the News of the World may have hacked into Milly's messages.
"I may have concluded that it came from sources, maybe police sources," he added."I may have concluded that it came from sources, maybe police sources," he added.
Mr Coulson, who later worked as Downing Street director of communications, said he had been aware of rumours of phone hacking at the time of the Milly Dowler story but said stories of hacking had been "in the ether".
Asked whether, given that he did not know at the time that hacking was a crime, he "would have had any problems with it", he replied: "I would have thought it was intrusive.
"I would have thought that it was a breach of privacy, and I also would have thought that it was lazy journalism."
'No interference''No interference'
Mr Coulson was asked about the paper's relationship with the police.Mr Coulson was asked about the paper's relationship with the police.
He said "catching criminals" was part of its "DNA" and that meant working closely with the police on many stories.He said "catching criminals" was part of its "DNA" and that meant working closely with the police on many stories.
The relationship was not "without tensions or fall-outs" at times, but he said it was not the News of the World's role "to interfere in police investigations".The relationship was not "without tensions or fall-outs" at times, but he said it was not the News of the World's role "to interfere in police investigations".
He said he did not remember being aware that two of his staff had been in contact with police about Milly Dowler's voicemails.He said he did not remember being aware that two of his staff had been in contact with police about Milly Dowler's voicemails.
But asked how he would have felt if he had known that his paper had been accessing them, he said he would have been "very concerned about it".But asked how he would have felt if he had known that his paper had been accessing them, he said he would have been "very concerned about it".
"I think my instinctive concern would be that this was interference in a police investigation.""I think my instinctive concern would be that this was interference in a police investigation."
The court was told about numerous texts and phone calls between Mr Coulson and Mrs Brooks while he was in charge of the paper and she was on holiday in April 2002.The court was told about numerous texts and phone calls between Mr Coulson and Mrs Brooks while he was in charge of the paper and she was on holiday in April 2002.
But Mr Coulson said he could not remember "having any conversation about Milly Dowler" with Mrs Brooks.But Mr Coulson said he could not remember "having any conversation about Milly Dowler" with Mrs Brooks.
Asked if there had been a "bullying culture" at the News of the World, Mr Coulson said: "I absolutely reject that." Asked if there had been a "bullying culture" at his time at the News of the World, Mr Coulson said: "I absolutely reject that."
He denied suggestions he was a bully, but said the News of the World was a "very tough place to work at times", adding: "As an editor I tried to be fair. I was, I'm sure, firm at times." Earlier in the trial, former royal editor Clive Goodman said the culture at the newspaper at the time had been "menacing", while reporter Dan Evans told the court he had been bullied to find front page stories.
Mr Coulson said the News of the World was a "very tough place to work at times", but denied suggestions he was a bully.
"As an editor I tried to be fair. I was, I'm sure, firm at times," he added.
He said it was "impossible to micro-manage a newspaper", adding that it was a "team exercise".He said it was "impossible to micro-manage a newspaper", adding that it was a "team exercise".
"You have to trust the people around you," he added."You have to trust the people around you," he added.
Mr Coulson is the last of seven defendants, who deny all charges against them, to give evidence.Mr Coulson is the last of seven defendants, who deny all charges against them, to give evidence.
The trial continues.The trial continues.