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| Tourism in North Korea: right or wrong? Defectors make their case | Tourism in North Korea: right or wrong? Defectors make their case |
| (4 months later) | |
| While debate about the appropriateness of tourism in North Korea has swirled for many years, it has become increasingly prominent of late. Increasing tourist numbers have meant increasing attention on the subject, while a flurry of recent tourist arrests have underscored the diplomatic ramifications of the industry like never before. | While debate about the appropriateness of tourism in North Korea has swirled for many years, it has become increasingly prominent of late. Increasing tourist numbers have meant increasing attention on the subject, while a flurry of recent tourist arrests have underscored the diplomatic ramifications of the industry like never before. |
| Proponents typically argue that the people-to-people contact enabled by North Korea tourism helps improve local views of foreigners, which, following decades of isolation and propaganda about the decadence and vulgarity of Western capitalism, is a good thing. Some go even further and suggest that tourism has a potentially subversive effect – that interaction with foreigners shows North Korean citizens just how far behind they are from the developed world, subsequently influencing them to question their government’s intentions more. | Proponents typically argue that the people-to-people contact enabled by North Korea tourism helps improve local views of foreigners, which, following decades of isolation and propaganda about the decadence and vulgarity of Western capitalism, is a good thing. Some go even further and suggest that tourism has a potentially subversive effect – that interaction with foreigners shows North Korean citizens just how far behind they are from the developed world, subsequently influencing them to question their government’s intentions more. |
| On the other hand, those who see tourism in North Korea in a negative light often argue that the industry legitimises the regime while simultaneously providing it with much needed foreign currency. Far from shining a light on the nation’s dire human rights record, they say that tourists unwittingly – wittingly in some cases – serve as propaganda tools for the regime, with their presence used to highlight foreign support for the Kim government. And it is argued that because tourism is a state industry, tourist dollars may be being used to help fund North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs. | On the other hand, those who see tourism in North Korea in a negative light often argue that the industry legitimises the regime while simultaneously providing it with much needed foreign currency. Far from shining a light on the nation’s dire human rights record, they say that tourists unwittingly – wittingly in some cases – serve as propaganda tools for the regime, with their presence used to highlight foreign support for the Kim government. And it is argued that because tourism is a state industry, tourist dollars may be being used to help fund North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs. |
| As with the broader “engage or isolate” debate, it’s a circular argument that will be unlikely to ever disappear. But what exactly do North Korean defectors think about the issue? Arguably, with so many defectors motivated to leave their country due to grievances with the way it was governed, one might expect broad opposition to an industry that can be seen to directly generate income for Pyongyang. However, the responses indicate that our panel of refugees seems to be just as divided on tourism as the foreign North Korea watcher community. | As with the broader “engage or isolate” debate, it’s a circular argument that will be unlikely to ever disappear. But what exactly do North Korean defectors think about the issue? Arguably, with so many defectors motivated to leave their country due to grievances with the way it was governed, one might expect broad opposition to an industry that can be seen to directly generate income for Pyongyang. However, the responses indicate that our panel of refugees seems to be just as divided on tourism as the foreign North Korea watcher community. |
| Q. Is tourism in North Korea a good or a bad idea? Money goes to the government and tourists “legitimise” Kim family propaganda, but are the people-to-people contacts that result from the industry worth it? | Q. Is tourism in North Korea a good or a bad idea? Money goes to the government and tourists “legitimise” Kim family propaganda, but are the people-to-people contacts that result from the industry worth it? |
| Jimin Kang, 28, had been in the military before he left Pyongyang in 2005. Now he lives in the UK, and contributes to NK News | Jimin Kang, 28, had been in the military before he left Pyongyang in 2005. Now he lives in the UK, and contributes to NK News |
| If tourists were to have the freedom to associate with people in North Korea and to travel about, it would be a positive thing. Tourism would also improve North Korea’s economic conditions. But what are things actually like? Tourists are not free to do such things. They go sightseeing on pre-determined routes with pre-determined guides. Therefore, there’s close to nothing in terms of interpersonal interaction with local people when it comes to tourists in North Korea. | If tourists were to have the freedom to associate with people in North Korea and to travel about, it would be a positive thing. Tourism would also improve North Korea’s economic conditions. But what are things actually like? Tourists are not free to do such things. They go sightseeing on pre-determined routes with pre-determined guides. Therefore, there’s close to nothing in terms of interpersonal interaction with local people when it comes to tourists in North Korea. |
| Also, the guides are people who know all about the reality of their country, yet live under the intense surveillance of the regime. Would they dare disclose what they have really seen or heard [to the tourists]? That’s also impossible. | Also, the guides are people who know all about the reality of their country, yet live under the intense surveillance of the regime. Would they dare disclose what they have really seen or heard [to the tourists]? That’s also impossible. |
| Furthermore, after going on these tours of pre-determined areas and pre-determined people, tourists end up coming back with false perceptions of the reality in North Korea. Why? Because they are led to feel that North Korea is not such a bad place to live in after all – that, although it may be an underdeveloped and poor country, it may not be the vicious violator of human rights that the West says it is. | Furthermore, after going on these tours of pre-determined areas and pre-determined people, tourists end up coming back with false perceptions of the reality in North Korea. Why? Because they are led to feel that North Korea is not such a bad place to live in after all – that, although it may be an underdeveloped and poor country, it may not be the vicious violator of human rights that the West says it is. |
| The revenue from tourism all goes toward the funds of the North Korean regime, which ironically means that tourists actually contribute to the creation of nuclear weapons and missiles. Furthermore, there are very few interactions with the residents of North Korea, so tourists do not do much to change the perception of the North Korean people. | The revenue from tourism all goes toward the funds of the North Korean regime, which ironically means that tourists actually contribute to the creation of nuclear weapons and missiles. Furthermore, there are very few interactions with the residents of North Korea, so tourists do not do much to change the perception of the North Korean people. |
| I believe that tourism in North Korea serves only to prolong the life of the North Korean regime | I believe that tourism in North Korea serves only to prolong the life of the North Korean regime |
| In the 80s, there were a few western journalists who visited North Korea. They went to sightsee the statue of Kim Il Sung at Mansudae. There, they met a few girls of about 12 years of age and asked them, “Do you know the weight of that statue?” I’m not sure whether they were actually curious or meant it as a joke to gauge the kid’s loyalty to the regime. But one of the girls responded, “The statue is the weight of the people’s allegiance for the Dear Leader.” | In the 80s, there were a few western journalists who visited North Korea. They went to sightsee the statue of Kim Il Sung at Mansudae. There, they met a few girls of about 12 years of age and asked them, “Do you know the weight of that statue?” I’m not sure whether they were actually curious or meant it as a joke to gauge the kid’s loyalty to the regime. But one of the girls responded, “The statue is the weight of the people’s allegiance for the Dear Leader.” |
| The journalists were dumbfounded. The girl later grew up to become a party official. To this day, she maintains her post for this incident from a few decades ago. In other words, she is still being used to propagandise the legitimacy of the system. | The journalists were dumbfounded. The girl later grew up to become a party official. To this day, she maintains her post for this incident from a few decades ago. In other words, she is still being used to propagandise the legitimacy of the system. |
| I personally believe that tourism in North Korea serves only to prolong the life of the North Korean regime. To this day, the regime strives to maintain its luxurious lifestyle from these tourism revenues. This is the context in which things like Masikryong ski resort or Mount Kumgang tours are operated. | I personally believe that tourism in North Korea serves only to prolong the life of the North Korean regime. To this day, the regime strives to maintain its luxurious lifestyle from these tourism revenues. This is the context in which things like Masikryong ski resort or Mount Kumgang tours are operated. |
| Inae Hyun was a professor of Philosophy before she left North Korea in 2004. She is in her 50s, and is now a researcher in South Korea. | Inae Hyun was a professor of Philosophy before she left North Korea in 2004. She is in her 50s, and is now a researcher in South Korea. |
| Currently, the North Korean government benefits from tourism more than anyone else. I therefore believe that tourism has little impact on the North Korean people – and this is why the North Korean government wants to attract more tourists. | Currently, the North Korean government benefits from tourism more than anyone else. I therefore believe that tourism has little impact on the North Korean people – and this is why the North Korean government wants to attract more tourists. |
| On the other hand, the North Korean government’s strong restrictions are only hindering their efforts to attract more tourists. In order to attract more tourists, they will need to remove many of the current restrictions – and if they do that, tourism will have a much greater impact on the people. | On the other hand, the North Korean government’s strong restrictions are only hindering their efforts to attract more tourists. In order to attract more tourists, they will need to remove many of the current restrictions – and if they do that, tourism will have a much greater impact on the people. |
| Hyun-moo Jung worked in a hotel for 15 years and in foreign currency generation for the military before he left North Korea in 2003. He now lives in South Korea, and is in his mid-50s. | Hyun-moo Jung worked in a hotel for 15 years and in foreign currency generation for the military before he left North Korea in 2003. He now lives in South Korea, and is in his mid-50s. |
| I’d say that in North Korea the positive effects of tourism are about 1% and the negative effects 99%. You see, very few people get to be in contact with foreign tourists. And those who do get to meet foreign tourists already know enough about the outside world. | I’d say that in North Korea the positive effects of tourism are about 1% and the negative effects 99%. You see, very few people get to be in contact with foreign tourists. And those who do get to meet foreign tourists already know enough about the outside world. |
| Foreign tourists have to be accompanied by tour guide at all times. They’re only allowed to visit a highly limited number of certain areas. They cannot leave the hotel when they want. | Foreign tourists have to be accompanied by tour guide at all times. They’re only allowed to visit a highly limited number of certain areas. They cannot leave the hotel when they want. |
| I’d say that in North Korea the positive effects of tourism are about 1% and the negative effects 99%. | I’d say that in North Korea the positive effects of tourism are about 1% and the negative effects 99%. |
| Even if a tourist could leave the hotel and get to see or meet an average North Korean – who is not allowed to be in the vicinity of foreign tourists – this person will be subject to severe interrogation and serious consequences. Have you ever thought about this? | |
| Those who travel to North Korea are therefore people who just can’t wait to give money to Kim Jong-un. | Those who travel to North Korea are therefore people who just can’t wait to give money to Kim Jong-un. |
| You’re only going to North Korea just so you can brag about it when you return home. | You’re only going to North Korea just so you can brag about it when you return home. |
| You’re only going to North Korea just so you can brag about it when you return home. The funniest thing is when I saw some people who bragged about their trip to Pyongyang. They clearly don’t know anything about North Korea. | You’re only going to North Korea just so you can brag about it when you return home. The funniest thing is when I saw some people who bragged about their trip to Pyongyang. They clearly don’t know anything about North Korea. |
| I’d like to emphasise once again that if you’re travelling to North Korea, that means you want nothing more than giving your money to Kim Jong-un. Please, do not travel to North Korea. | I’d like to emphasise once again that if you’re travelling to North Korea, that means you want nothing more than giving your money to Kim Jong-un. Please, do not travel to North Korea. |
| Sung-ha Joo, in his 40s, was a reservist artillery officer, in the North Korean military before he left in 2001. Now he lives in South Korea, and works as a journalist at Dong-a Ilbo | Sung-ha Joo, in his 40s, was a reservist artillery officer, in the North Korean military before he left in 2001. Now he lives in South Korea, and works as a journalist at Dong-a Ilbo |
| North Koreans pick up a lot from tourists – their freewheeling nature, foreign fashions, and their attitude. | North Koreans pick up a lot from tourists – their freewheeling nature, foreign fashions, and their attitude. |
| I therefore believe tourism will help them realise how, under Kim Jong-un, they are behind the rest of the world from both political and economic perspectives. | I therefore believe tourism will help them realise how, under Kim Jong-un, they are behind the rest of the world from both political and economic perspectives. |
| The people tourists often meet in North Korea are elites, these people are leading the country | The people tourists often meet in North Korea are elites, these people are leading the country |
| I value personal exchange. While the people that tourists often meet in North Korea are elites, don’t forget that these are the people who are leading the country. I believe you will earn more from North Korean tourism by affecting these people than the financial benefit they will earn. | I value personal exchange. While the people that tourists often meet in North Korea are elites, don’t forget that these are the people who are leading the country. I believe you will earn more from North Korean tourism by affecting these people than the financial benefit they will earn. |
| I believe tourism is a positive idea considering my experience in the North, imagining the outside world by observing foreign tourists. | I believe tourism is a positive idea considering my experience in the North, imagining the outside world by observing foreign tourists. |
| Jihyun Park, in her mid-40s, left Chongyin City in 1998. She lives in the UK, and works for the European Alliance for Human Rights in North Korea | Jihyun Park, in her mid-40s, left Chongyin City in 1998. She lives in the UK, and works for the European Alliance for Human Rights in North Korea |
| Travel itself to North Korea is not bad, but what matters more is the goal of this travel in the first place. | Travel itself to North Korea is not bad, but what matters more is the goal of this travel in the first place. |
| Some tourists these days take pictures from North Korea, and subsequently expose them to the world to raise awareness of the realities there. This is all good, but some tourists only see the reality of North Korea and the images of the sick children for lucrative means. | Some tourists these days take pictures from North Korea, and subsequently expose them to the world to raise awareness of the realities there. This is all good, but some tourists only see the reality of North Korea and the images of the sick children for lucrative means. |
| That’s why, as of now, I’d say that tourism to North Korea is bad. Of course, tourism in North Korea is just a scheme to make money and the revenue from tourism goes to fund the luxurious lifestyle of the few in North Korea. | That’s why, as of now, I’d say that tourism to North Korea is bad. Of course, tourism in North Korea is just a scheme to make money and the revenue from tourism goes to fund the luxurious lifestyle of the few in North Korea. |
| Jinwoo Ham is in his 50s and lives in South Korea. Originally from Chongjin, he served as a military officer for 22 years before working in a government-controlled business earning foreign currency. He left the North in 2011. | Jinwoo Ham is in his 50s and lives in South Korea. Originally from Chongjin, he served as a military officer for 22 years before working in a government-controlled business earning foreign currency. He left the North in 2011. |
| I’m against tourism in North Korea. The money goes straight to the central government. It is used for propaganda to make people think North Korea is superior. | I’m against tourism in North Korea. The money goes straight to the central government. It is used for propaganda to make people think North Korea is superior. |
| Only a limited number of people come in contact with foreign tourists and most people aren’t allowed to be anywhere near foreign tourists during these tours. | Only a limited number of people come in contact with foreign tourists and most people aren’t allowed to be anywhere near foreign tourists during these tours. |
| I’d like to beg foreign tourists not to visit North Korea, even if they’re curious about the country. | I’d like to beg foreign tourists not to visit North Korea, even if they’re curious about the country. |
| All the tour guides are from the Ministry of State Security and none of them have anything to do with average North Koreans [many in the tourist industry dispute this]. | All the tour guides are from the Ministry of State Security and none of them have anything to do with average North Koreans [many in the tourist industry dispute this]. |
| I’d like to beg foreign tourists not to visit North Korea, even if they’re curious about the country. Their presence only gives the dictator something to brag about. | I’d like to beg foreign tourists not to visit North Korea, even if they’re curious about the country. Their presence only gives the dictator something to brag about. |
| Soon-kyung Hong, in his mid 60s, had been a DPRK Trade Councillor before he left North Korea in 2000. Now, he lives in South Korea and is chairman for the Committee for Democratization of North Korea | Soon-kyung Hong, in his mid 60s, had been a DPRK Trade Councillor before he left North Korea in 2000. Now, he lives in South Korea and is chairman for the Committee for Democratization of North Korea |
| Because money that is earned through tourism flows to the North Korean regime, tourists help justify the Kim family’s political existence. | Because money that is earned through tourism flows to the North Korean regime, tourists help justify the Kim family’s political existence. |
| Therefore, I am especially against “barbed-wire tourism,” similar to what was seen [up to 2008] with the Mt Kumgang tour, which unconditionally poured money into the North Korean regime. | Therefore, I am especially against “barbed-wire tourism,” similar to what was seen [up to 2008] with the Mt Kumgang tour, which unconditionally poured money into the North Korean regime. |
| However, tourism that enables direct contact with North Korean people and facilitates the arrival of outside news there is a positive phenomenon. | However, tourism that enables direct contact with North Korean people and facilitates the arrival of outside news there is a positive phenomenon. |
| Indeed, this kind of tourism can provide an opportunity to increase the North Korean people’s awareness of the outside world and in contrast, the outside world can increase its understanding of the North Korean people. | Indeed, this kind of tourism can provide an opportunity to increase the North Korean people’s awareness of the outside world and in contrast, the outside world can increase its understanding of the North Korean people. |
| Mina Yoon, 28, had been in the military before she left Chongjin in 2010. She is now a university student in Seoul | Mina Yoon, 28, had been in the military before she left Chongjin in 2010. She is now a university student in Seoul |
| Not everyone in North Korea can go to the Kaesong Industrial Complex or Mt Kumgang [places where South Korean workers and tourists have historically interacted with North Korean citizens]. | Not everyone in North Korea can go to the Kaesong Industrial Complex or Mt Kumgang [places where South Korean workers and tourists have historically interacted with North Korean citizens]. |
| Only specially selected people can enter those areas and in any case, they have to attend lectures and classes beforehand. Don’t forget, North Koreans have almost no freedom to travel and can’t readily visit places like these. | Only specially selected people can enter those areas and in any case, they have to attend lectures and classes beforehand. Don’t forget, North Koreans have almost no freedom to travel and can’t readily visit places like these. |
| Don’t forget, North Koreans have almost no freedom to travel can’t readily visit places like these. | Don’t forget, North Koreans have almost no freedom to travel can’t readily visit places like these. |
| Even if some of them manage to be in contact with South Koreans or foreigners, it will be very hard for outside information to be passed onto North Korean society. And because of the nature of tourism in the DPRK, lots of money goes straight to the central government. | Even if some of them manage to be in contact with South Koreans or foreigners, it will be very hard for outside information to be passed onto North Korean society. And because of the nature of tourism in the DPRK, lots of money goes straight to the central government. |
| Sung Guk Choi, in his early 30s, directed children's film productions before becoming political editor of the Pyongyang broadcasting committee – a position he held for nine years. He left in 2010 and now lives in South Korea | Sung Guk Choi, in his early 30s, directed children's film productions before becoming political editor of the Pyongyang broadcasting committee – a position he held for nine years. He left in 2010 and now lives in South Korea |
| What is more important than the money that goes into Kim Jong-un’s pocket is that tourists gets to make contact with the North Korean population. | What is more important than the money that goes into Kim Jong-un’s pocket is that tourists gets to make contact with the North Korean population. |
| I believe that North Koreans will be affected by the presence of people from the free world; their differing perspectives will give different points of view to ordinary North Koreans. Of course there is a chance that North Korean government might one day shut down all the windows and stop letting tourists in. | I believe that North Koreans will be affected by the presence of people from the free world; their differing perspectives will give different points of view to ordinary North Koreans. Of course there is a chance that North Korean government might one day shut down all the windows and stop letting tourists in. |
| But above all, I honestly do not believe tourists would ever go to North Korea just for the skiing! | But above all, I honestly do not believe tourists would ever go to North Korea just for the skiing! |
| Nayoung Koh, aged 25, left North Korea in 2009. She is now a student at university in Seoul | Nayoung Koh, aged 25, left North Korea in 2009. She is now a student at university in Seoul |
| Tourism in North Korea isn’t that bad, because being in contact with foreigners is important. North Koreans have been separated and isolated from the outside world for a very long time. Therefore, I believe it is very important to give them opportunities to meet foreigners. | Tourism in North Korea isn’t that bad, because being in contact with foreigners is important. North Koreans have been separated and isolated from the outside world for a very long time. Therefore, I believe it is very important to give them opportunities to meet foreigners. |