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| Clive Goodman: I felt 'manipulated' by Andy Coulson and News of the World | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| The former royal editor of the News of the World jailed for hacking seven years ago felt "manipulated" by Andy Coulson and the paper's executives following his arrest, the phone-hacking trial has heard. | The former royal editor of the News of the World jailed for hacking seven years ago felt "manipulated" by Andy Coulson and the paper's executives following his arrest, the phone-hacking trial has heard. |
| Clive Goodman said he was "terrified" following his detention by armed police in 2006 and was "extremely suspicious" of his former employer's response. | Clive Goodman said he was "terrified" following his detention by armed police in 2006 and was "extremely suspicious" of his former employer's response. |
| Goodman, who is one of seven defendants in the hacking trial, told jurors he felt that the News of the World had interfered in his legal case and alleged that his solicitor was talking to the company behind his back in the months after his arrest. | |
| "I was concerned my employers were trying to pass me off as a rogue reporter and to blame for all the wrongdoing at the News of the World which is exactly what they did." | "I was concerned my employers were trying to pass me off as a rogue reporter and to blame for all the wrongdoing at the News of the World which is exactly what they did." |
| He said he didn't trust his employer and this was why he decided to tape record a meeting with his then editor Andy Coulson in Cafe Rouge in Putney six days after his arrest on August 2006. | He said he didn't trust his employer and this was why he decided to tape record a meeting with his then editor Andy Coulson in Cafe Rouge in Putney six days after his arrest on August 2006. |
| "I felt I was being manipulated by Mr Coulson into taking the full blame for hacking at the News of the World which turned out to be the case at the time," he said. | "I felt I was being manipulated by Mr Coulson into taking the full blame for hacking at the News of the World which turned out to be the case at the time," he said. |
| "I felt the promises they were making to me weren't genuine. | "I felt the promises they were making to me weren't genuine. |
| "I felt they were interfering in my legal case. I felt I couldn't trust them and I had to get self-protection," he said, explaining that recording the meeting was the only way he felt that he could protect himself. | "I felt they were interfering in my legal case. I felt I couldn't trust them and I had to get self-protection," he said, explaining that recording the meeting was the only way he felt that he could protect himself. |
| Timothy Langdale QC, for Coulson, was cross-examining Goodman about his earlier evidence about the Cafe Rouge meeting in which he claimed that the then editor told him he could keep his job even if went to prison, but that this was dependent on not involving others. | Timothy Langdale QC, for Coulson, was cross-examining Goodman about his earlier evidence about the Cafe Rouge meeting in which he claimed that the then editor told him he could keep his job even if went to prison, but that this was dependent on not involving others. |
| Langdale put it to Goodman that his account of the meeting was inaccurate. Goodman denied this was the case. | Langdale put it to Goodman that his account of the meeting was inaccurate. Goodman denied this was the case. |
| "At the time I was terrified," he said. "I have been in a police cell for three days, arrested by armed anti-terrorist police. I was facing financial ruin and Andy was holding out the only possible glimmer of hope – 'you are one of the ones who could come back'. It was a chance I had to explore." | "At the time I was terrified," he said. "I have been in a police cell for three days, arrested by armed anti-terrorist police. I was facing financial ruin and Andy was holding out the only possible glimmer of hope – 'you are one of the ones who could come back'. It was a chance I had to explore." |
| Goodman said he was "extremely suspicious" ahead of the meeting but that he went along to hear what Coulson had to say. | Goodman said he was "extremely suspicious" ahead of the meeting but that he went along to hear what Coulson had to say. |
| "I was trying to hang on to a career. He was offering me that one slender hope I might be able to come back," said Goodman. | "I was trying to hang on to a career. He was offering me that one slender hope I might be able to come back," said Goodman. |
| Langdale said the tape recording of the meeting would have been an important piece of evidence and asked him where the tape was now. | Langdale said the tape recording of the meeting would have been an important piece of evidence and asked him where the tape was now. |
| Goodman said he no longer had it, explaining that he had moved house three times, that his home had been searched by police and that he never expected to find himself in a second trial after being convicted of phone hacking in 2006. | Goodman said he no longer had it, explaining that he had moved house three times, that his home had been searched by police and that he never expected to find himself in a second trial after being convicted of phone hacking in 2006. |
| Asked why he didn't get an "admission" on tape from Coulson that he knew and approved of hacking, Goodman said his former boss would have "smelt a rat" had he raised the matter. | Asked why he didn't get an "admission" on tape from Coulson that he knew and approved of hacking, Goodman said his former boss would have "smelt a rat" had he raised the matter. |
| "Andy Coulson is an editor and a journalist of some 20/30 years' standing. Had we had a conversation like this – 'by the way you are up to your armpits too' – I think he would have smelt a rat. That you would have been the end of legal representation, end of my employment, the end of the offer to come back and the end of my career," said Goodman. | "Andy Coulson is an editor and a journalist of some 20/30 years' standing. Had we had a conversation like this – 'by the way you are up to your armpits too' – I think he would have smelt a rat. That you would have been the end of legal representation, end of my employment, the end of the offer to come back and the end of my career," said Goodman. |
| Langdale challenged Goodman about his claim that Coulson knew and approved of a side deal with hacker Glenn Mulcaire in which he was paid £500 a week to monitor the royal family. This was known as the "Alexander project". | Langdale challenged Goodman about his claim that Coulson knew and approved of a side deal with hacker Glenn Mulcaire in which he was paid £500 a week to monitor the royal family. This was known as the "Alexander project". |
| He put it to Goodman that he couldn't get this on on tape because he knew it wasn't true that Coulson was aware of Mulcaire or the hacking. | He put it to Goodman that he couldn't get this on on tape because he knew it wasn't true that Coulson was aware of Mulcaire or the hacking. |
| "It's not on tape, you didn't ask him because you knew that he had not known of or approved of what you were doing with the Alexander project," Langdale said. | "It's not on tape, you didn't ask him because you knew that he had not known of or approved of what you were doing with the Alexander project," Langdale said. |
| Goodman responded: "With respect, that's completely untrue." | Goodman responded: "With respect, that's completely untrue." |
| Langdale put it to Goodman that such a tape would have been a powerful weapon, "the most useful weapon would it not to get an admission on tape that he was involved and approved of what you were doing". | Langdale put it to Goodman that such a tape would have been a powerful weapon, "the most useful weapon would it not to get an admission on tape that he was involved and approved of what you were doing". |
| Goodman said he failed to see how that would have helped. "The fact that he approved? It would have got him in trouble, but it would not have got me out of trouble," he added. | Goodman said he failed to see how that would have helped. "The fact that he approved? It would have got him in trouble, but it would not have got me out of trouble," he added. |
| He also told jurors that he felt that his solicitor, Henri Brandman, who had been allocated to him by News International, was "negotiating behind my back" during the drafting of his defence case ahead of a possible trial. | He also told jurors that he felt that his solicitor, Henri Brandman, who had been allocated to him by News International, was "negotiating behind my back" during the drafting of his defence case ahead of a possible trial. |
| Turning to Langdale, Goodman said: "I was increasingly suspicious of News International, of your client, my solicitor, that somehow they were all acting together to put me in the middle of all of this. I was happy to accept what I did but I wanted to explore the possibility what would happen if I had to ... if I was was suddenly blamed for all the hacking. | Turning to Langdale, Goodman said: "I was increasingly suspicious of News International, of your client, my solicitor, that somehow they were all acting together to put me in the middle of all of this. I was happy to accept what I did but I wanted to explore the possibility what would happen if I had to ... if I was was suddenly blamed for all the hacking. |
| "I was increasingly worried about the manipulation by your client [Andy Coulson] and my employer and the obvious contact going on between my solicitor and the man trying to blame me for all the hacking, your client and News International. | "I was increasingly worried about the manipulation by your client [Andy Coulson] and my employer and the obvious contact going on between my solicitor and the man trying to blame me for all the hacking, your client and News International. |
| "I was frightened that your client, Andy Coulson, and my solicitor were negotiating behind my back, which indeed they were." | "I was frightened that your client, Andy Coulson, and my solicitor were negotiating behind my back, which indeed they were." |
| He said this is why he added material to his defence case talking about the "dark arts" at the paper. He said he wanted to put the allegations about the paper into his defence so in the event that he had go into the witness box he would not be accused of saying things he had not previously put forward. | He said this is why he added material to his defence case talking about the "dark arts" at the paper. He said he wanted to put the allegations about the paper into his defence so in the event that he had go into the witness box he would not be accused of saying things he had not previously put forward. |
| He claimed that Brandman was "clearly in contact" with a News International lawyer and Coulson. | He claimed that Brandman was "clearly in contact" with a News International lawyer and Coulson. |
| Goodman is not on trial for hacking, but faces charges along with Coulson relating to the alleged purchase of royal phone books from palace police. He denies the charges. | Goodman is not on trial for hacking, but faces charges along with Coulson relating to the alleged purchase of royal phone books from palace police. He denies the charges. |
| Coulson also denies the charges and a further charge that he was part of a conspiracy on the paper to hack phones. | Coulson also denies the charges and a further charge that he was part of a conspiracy on the paper to hack phones. |
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| The lead prosecutor Andrew Edis, QC, pressed Goodman on his claim that he had only pretended to be paying a palace police officer for a royal phone directory. | The lead prosecutor Andrew Edis, QC, pressed Goodman on his claim that he had only pretended to be paying a palace police officer for a royal phone directory. |
| Goodman claimed that it was part of the "exaggeration" that was "commonplace" in the newspaper world to inflate sources. | Goodman claimed that it was part of the "exaggeration" that was "commonplace" in the newspaper world to inflate sources. |
| Although he did not recall if there was any specific rule banning payment of police at the News of the World, he would not have done so because he knew it was unlawful. | Although he did not recall if there was any specific rule banning payment of police at the News of the World, he would not have done so because he knew it was unlawful. |
| Previously the trial has heard Coulson admit he "rubberstamped" Goodman's request for a £1,000 payment for one telephone directory from someone he claimed "royal policeman". Coulson said in his evidence he did not believe Goodman was paying a policeman and still does not. | Previously the trial has heard Coulson admit he "rubberstamped" Goodman's request for a £1,000 payment for one telephone directory from someone he claimed "royal policeman". Coulson said in his evidence he did not believe Goodman was paying a policeman and still does not. |
| On Friday Edis put it to Goodman that if he wasn't paying a policeman, then he was lying to his bosses. "You felt at News of the World it would be easier to get money out of them if they thought they police?" he asked. | On Friday Edis put it to Goodman that if he wasn't paying a policeman, then he was lying to his bosses. "You felt at News of the World it would be easier to get money out of them if they thought they police?" he asked. |
| Goodman responded that it was not a lie, but exaggeration to make it sound like information was coming from a "better" source. | Goodman responded that it was not a lie, but exaggeration to make it sound like information was coming from a "better" source. |
| Goodman told jurors that the royal phone books were "not considered to be very sensitive" and were often thrown out and obtainable. | Goodman told jurors that the royal phone books were "not considered to be very sensitive" and were often thrown out and obtainable. |
| Edis asked why he paid £1,000 for "just a bit of rubbish". Goodman replied it might have been royal rubbish but iw as "valuable to a reporter". | Edis asked why he paid £1,000 for "just a bit of rubbish". Goodman replied it might have been royal rubbish but iw as "valuable to a reporter". |
| A source named "Anderson" frequently provided stories according to a schedule of payments shown to jurors and was paid cash to protect his identity. Edis put it to Goodman that the source seemed to know more about the royal family than he did. That was often the way with contacts, Goodman replied. | A source named "Anderson" frequently provided stories according to a schedule of payments shown to jurors and was paid cash to protect his identity. Edis put it to Goodman that the source seemed to know more about the royal family than he did. That was often the way with contacts, Goodman replied. |
| Goodman told jurors that royal palaces were like "little villages, little communities" and that if anything "exciting happens" or "anyone gets into trouble" gossip spreads quickly. "But it didn't get to you though," Edis said, "because you had to pay for it." Goodman replied: "Well, I wasn't working for the royal family." | Goodman told jurors that royal palaces were like "little villages, little communities" and that if anything "exciting happens" or "anyone gets into trouble" gossip spreads quickly. "But it didn't get to you though," Edis said, "because you had to pay for it." Goodman replied: "Well, I wasn't working for the royal family." |
| Goodman was also challenged about his claim to have sent £700 through the internal post to Manchester as a payment to phone hacker Glenn Mulcaire. This was, he explained, was because the executive who commissioned Mulcaire on this occasion, Greg Miskiw, was in Manchester. | Goodman was also challenged about his claim to have sent £700 through the internal post to Manchester as a payment to phone hacker Glenn Mulcaire. This was, he explained, was because the executive who commissioned Mulcaire on this occasion, Greg Miskiw, was in Manchester. |
| Edis said this was "ridiculous". Goodman said it was not ridiculous, telling jurors he once ferried £60,000 by plane and car to the north of Scotland for a series of stories. | Edis said this was "ridiculous". Goodman said it was not ridiculous, telling jurors he once ferried £60,000 by plane and car to the north of Scotland for a series of stories. |
| The trial continues. | The trial continues. |