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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
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| NI Victims Commissioner Kathryn Stone says 'secret deals eroding trust' | NI Victims Commissioner Kathryn Stone says 'secret deals eroding trust' |
| (about 1 hour later) | |
| Northern Ireland's victims commissioner has said she is concerned that revelations about secret deals are eroding the trust and confidence of people bereaved and injured during the Troubles. | Northern Ireland's victims commissioner has said she is concerned that revelations about secret deals are eroding the trust and confidence of people bereaved and injured during the Troubles. |
| Kathryn Stone, who leaves the position at the end of this week, said there are victims who feel that they have been failed by Stormont's politicians. | Kathryn Stone, who leaves the position at the end of this week, said there are victims who feel that they have been failed by Stormont's politicians. |
| She said the lack of progress in finding an agreement to deal with the past has led to some victims going backwards rather than forwards. | She said the lack of progress in finding an agreement to deal with the past has led to some victims going backwards rather than forwards. |
| She was speaking in an interview to be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 's File on Four programme. | She was speaking in an interview to be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 's File on Four programme. |
| 'Justice and fairness' | 'Justice and fairness' |
| "It's not fair to say that nothing's happened," acknowledged Ms Stone, pointing to money given to victims' groups. | "It's not fair to say that nothing's happened," acknowledged Ms Stone, pointing to money given to victims' groups. |
| "But those bigger picture things, like the suspension of the Historical Enquiries Team and the huge delays in coroner's inquests - those things need to be sorted out and they need to be sorted out now." | "But those bigger picture things, like the suspension of the Historical Enquiries Team and the huge delays in coroner's inquests - those things need to be sorted out and they need to be sorted out now." |
| Earlier this year, Ms Stone published her own set of proposals which included the suggestion of a pension for victims. | Earlier this year, Ms Stone published her own set of proposals which included the suggestion of a pension for victims. |
| However, the idea has been dismissed by unionists because of concerns that some former paramilitaries could be entitled to apply for money under the scheme. | However, the idea has been dismissed by unionists because of concerns that some former paramilitaries could be entitled to apply for money under the scheme. |
| Alex Bunting is among the victims campaigning for a pension. | Alex Bunting is among the victims campaigning for a pension. |
| The taxi cab he was driving was blown up by an IRA bomb in 1991, leaving him severely disabled. | The taxi cab he was driving was blown up by an IRA bomb in 1991, leaving him severely disabled. |
| "On that day I didn't nearly lose my life - I lost my business, I lost my home - I lost everything," he said. | "On that day I didn't nearly lose my life - I lost my business, I lost my home - I lost everything," he said. |
| "All I am asking is for justice and fairness. | "All I am asking is for justice and fairness. |
| "Do you think it is right that I and people like me are left without any form of pension? | "Do you think it is right that I and people like me are left without any form of pension? |
| "I am talking about people who've been shot in the head, I am talking about people who have lost their limbs and I am talking about people who have been shot and paralysed." | "I am talking about people who've been shot in the head, I am talking about people who have lost their limbs and I am talking about people who have been shot and paralysed." |
| Kathryn Stone's job over the last two years has been to try to provide a single voice for victims who often have very different yet strongly-held views. | Kathryn Stone's job over the last two years has been to try to provide a single voice for victims who often have very different yet strongly-held views. |
| That has been difficult given the political disagreements and news stories about so-called legacy issues during that period. | That has been difficult given the political disagreements and news stories about so-called legacy issues during that period. |
| This week, a House of Commons Select Committee is taking evidence at Stormont about the 'On The Runs' (OTR) scheme. | This week, a House of Commons Select Committee is taking evidence at Stormont about the 'On The Runs' (OTR) scheme. |
| It was a process by which republican paramilitary suspects were able to apply to the British government for letters of assurance if they were not wanted by police in the UK. | It was a process by which republican paramilitary suspects were able to apply to the British government for letters of assurance if they were not wanted by police in the UK. |
| However, an On The Run letter given in error to the main suspect in 1982's Hyde Park bombing led to a murder trial not going ahead. | |
| Many victims have said that before that ruling, they were not aware that the scheme even existed. | Many victims have said that before that ruling, they were not aware that the scheme even existed. |
| "When news of these comes out again in a kind of drip, drip, drip way, again it erodes the trust and confidence," said Ms Stone. | "When news of these comes out again in a kind of drip, drip, drip way, again it erodes the trust and confidence," said Ms Stone. |
| "It's very difficult to promote a kind of transparent approach which has integrity when people know that there may or may not be something else that's going to come out." | "It's very difficult to promote a kind of transparent approach which has integrity when people know that there may or may not be something else that's going to come out." |
| It has also been revealed that Royal Prerogatives of Mercy were used to shorten sentences in 16 terrorism-related cases in the years following the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. | It has also been revealed that Royal Prerogatives of Mercy were used to shorten sentences in 16 terrorism-related cases in the years following the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. |
| The government has also admitted that records for pardons used during the decade between 1987 and 1997 appear to be lost. | The government has also admitted that records for pardons used during the decade between 1987 and 1997 appear to be lost. |
| "Perhaps they've been tucked away with the Christmas decorations, who knows - but it is such a serious thing," said Ms Stone. | "Perhaps they've been tucked away with the Christmas decorations, who knows - but it is such a serious thing," said Ms Stone. |
| "People have said to me, 'Well there's bound to be other things; how can we trust anybody?' | "People have said to me, 'Well there's bound to be other things; how can we trust anybody?' |
| "And it's those questions of trust and confidence on both sides that are really, really important for people." | "And it's those questions of trust and confidence on both sides that are really, really important for people." |
| In December, marathon talks to try to find solutions to the problems caused by parading, flags and the past ended in failure. | In December, marathon talks to try to find solutions to the problems caused by parading, flags and the past ended in failure. |
| When I asked Ms Stone if the politicians were capable of agreeing a deal, she simply said: "They have to be." | When I asked Ms Stone if the politicians were capable of agreeing a deal, she simply said: "They have to be." |
| When I pushed her on the subject, she fell silent and dropped her head. | When I pushed her on the subject, she fell silent and dropped her head. |
| But after a long gap, she insisted that even given the fractious relationships of parties at the Northern Ireland Assembly, an agreement could be found. | But after a long gap, she insisted that even given the fractious relationships of parties at the Northern Ireland Assembly, an agreement could be found. |
| "One of the things that is so offensive to victims that I've spent time with is the idea of moving on - drawing a line and putting it all behind you," she said | "One of the things that is so offensive to victims that I've spent time with is the idea of moving on - drawing a line and putting it all behind you," she said |
| "One of the things I've said recently that it is actually very difficult to move on when you've got no legs - it is actually very difficult to move on where there's an empty space in the bed where your husband used to be. | "One of the things I've said recently that it is actually very difficult to move on when you've got no legs - it is actually very difficult to move on where there's an empty space in the bed where your husband used to be. |
| "And unless we can support people to have answers and the justice that anyone else would be entitled to, then it will be very difficult to deal with the past. | "And unless we can support people to have answers and the justice that anyone else would be entitled to, then it will be very difficult to deal with the past. |
| "But we have to remain optimistic that that those things will happen." | "But we have to remain optimistic that that those things will happen." |
| File on Four is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 at 20:00 BST Tuesday 10 June. | File on Four is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 at 20:00 BST Tuesday 10 June. |