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Michael Morpurgo: We are who we are now, in large part, because of the first world war Michael Morpurgo: We are who we are now, in large part, because of the first world war
(2 months later)
Michael Morpurgo came into the Guardian to do a podcast interview with two site members, Orli, aged 14 and JDBookGroup's Fernando aged 11. The resulting conversation was so beautiful and profound we decided to publish the whole transcript here! Fernando: What message do you want to give to children by basing so many of your books on the war?I don't want to give a message to children. What I want is to tell a story to children, and then I want the children to make of it what they would like to make of it. But, there's no doubt about it, I have a particular take on war, and that comes through in my stories. But I don't write my stories to make you believe something. I suppose if I'm honest, when you write a book that you know children are going to read, what you would like is that it makes them think. Because that's what books are all about: to make us think and understand ourselves and the world about us better. I'm not in the message-passing business – you'd need a pigeon for that.Fernando: How does writing about war help you cope with your feelings about it?That's a really good question: it is one of the main reasons I write about war. I was born in 1943, so I grew up after the second world war, with the sights and sounds of what that war left behind, both in terms of broken buildings and broken families and broken society and a lot of unhappiness – there was a lot of grief when I was growing up, a lot of people were missing. And I think it's quite true that I do write a great deal about war because I'm still trying to work out why it is that we do it now, after all this time; after two world wars. There's this wonderful old solider called Harry Patch, who was the last soldier of the first world war to die, aged over a hundred and something. And he said right at the end of his life that at the end of the day, anyway, people are going to get round a table and sort it out, so why do we have to go through this horror before they do?F: Are the characters from War Horse based on real people and animals?They're not based on people I knew, but the idea for the story came from people I knew. I met by happenchance an old man – we're talking 40 years ago – who was eighty then himself: a man called Wilf Ellis. And he just got talking with me, and I discovered that he'd been to the first world war as a young man; and it was he who told me his story for hours and hours and hours. So I did talk to the people who had actually been there but I did not use their characters, as such.F: Why did you decide to write War Horse from an animal's point of view instead of a human's?There have been many books written about the first world war from one side or the other. So I thought, if you're going to write about this war, why are you writing about it? And the reason I was writing about it was because I wanted to create a story which showed the universal suffering of war. Now, ten million soldiers died in that war, so it's important to remember them all, somehow. I thought if you're going to write a story, try and tell it from a neutral point of view, and the horse, for me, was the perfect way of doing it. Because I could have a horse brought up on my farm in Devon, sold off to the army, trained as a British cavalry horse, then going across to France and being captured quite early on after a charge by Germans: and then the horse saw the war from the German point of view. So I thought that might shine new lights on this war. Michael Morpurgo came into the Guardian to do a podcast interview with two site members, Orli, aged 14 and JDBookGroup's Fernando aged 11. The resulting conversation was so beautiful and profound we decided to publish the whole transcript here! Fernando: What message do you want to give to children by basing so many of your books on the war?I don't want to give a message to children. What I want is to tell a story to children, and then I want the children to make of it what they would like to make of it. But, there's no doubt about it, I have a particular take on war, and that comes through in my stories. But I don't write my stories to make you believe something. I suppose if I'm honest, when you write a book that you know children are going to read, what you would like is that it makes them think. Because that's what books are all about: to make us think and understand ourselves and the world about us better. I'm not in the message-passing business – you'd need a pigeon for that. Fernando: How does writing about war help you cope with your feelings about it?That's a really good question: it is one of the main reasons I write about war. I was born in 1943, so I grew up after the second world war, with the sights and sounds of what that war left behind, both in terms of broken buildings and broken families and broken society and a lot of unhappiness – there was a lot of grief when I was growing up, a lot of people were missing. And I think it's quite true that I do write a great deal about war because I'm still trying to work out why it is that we do it now, after all this time; after two world wars. There's this wonderful old solider called Harry Patch, who was the last soldier of the first world war to die, aged over a hundred and something. And he said right at the end of his life that at the end of the day, anyway, people are going to get round a table and sort it out, so why do we have to go through this horror before they do? F: Are the characters from War Horse based on real people and animals?They're not based on people I knew, but the idea for the story came from people I knew. I met by happenchance an old man – we're talking 40 years ago – who was eighty then himself: a man called Wilf Ellis. And he just got talking with me, and I discovered that he'd been to the first world war as a young man; and it was he who told me his story for hours and hours and hours. So I did talk to the people who had actually been there but I did not use their characters, as such. F: Why did you decide to write War Horse from an animal's point of view instead of a human's?There have been many books written about the first world war from one side or the other. So I thought, if you're going to write about this war, why are you writing about it? And the reason I was writing about it was because I wanted to create a story which showed the universal suffering of war. Now, ten million soldiers died in that war, so it's important to remember them all, somehow. I thought if you're going to write a story, try and tell it from a neutral point of view, and the horse, for me, was the perfect way of doing it. Because I could have a horse brought up on my farm in Devon, sold off to the army, trained as a British cavalry horse, then going across to France and being captured quite early on after a charge by Germans: and then the horse saw the war from the German point of view. So I thought that might shine new lights on this war.
F: Did you always aim for your books to be read by children?No, I'd like them to be read by lots of people, because that buys me socks (if you know what I mean). So in a way I don't care who reads my books. I love it that children sometimes do – the reason they do is because I write about children a lot. But the best stories are the ones we all read.F: What is your favourite book from the ones you have written?I wish you wouldn't keep asking such good questions, it's making me think. Right, honest answer: what I love is when the people I love like a book. My wife Claire loves War Horse; she thinks it's the best book I've ever written. Well, it's not – but she loves it, therefore I love it. There are other books I love because everyone else hated them, which is bizarre. But a book when you make it is quite like a child: you feel very protective towards it. F: Did you always aim for your books to be read by children?No, I'd like them to be read by lots of people, because that buys me socks (if you know what I mean). So in a way I don't care who reads my books. I love it that children sometimes do – the reason they do is because I write about children a lot. But the best stories are the ones we all read. F: What is your favourite book from the ones you have written?I wish you wouldn't keep asking such good questions, it's making me think. Right, honest answer: what I love is when the people I love like a book. My wife Claire loves War Horse; she thinks it's the best book I've ever written. Well, it's not – but she loves it, therefore I love it. There are other books I love because everyone else hated them, which is bizarre. But a book when you make it is quite like a child: you feel very protective towards it.
I'll give you two more answers. The book you've just written is always the one that's buzzing around your head. I've just written a book which is called Listen to the Moon. It's a story about a girl who survives the sinking of a great ship called the Lusitania. She survived by clinging to the top of the piano that was floating in the ocean. The other answer to give you is that they're all my favourites, as they would be if I was a parent.F: I consider you a legend. How does it feel to be a child's hero?A leg-end in my own lifetime… These words are very over-used, if I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not a hero, I tell stories. I love telling stories. It's enough for me that children like the stories. Shall I tell you who the heroes are? The heroes are the people that no one knows are heroes. Up and down this country and everywhere, what you will find is that there are people in their homes looking after people who can't look after themselves, quietly. If there is such a thing as a hero, it's those people because they live selflessly. You really can't have anyone as a hero who is obsessed by collecting socks. Choose another hero.F: Can you give a message to people from my generation about why we should keep reading despite all our computers and gadgets?Yes I can. I don't know any other way that young people can come to an understanding of themselves and relationships and other peoples and the world around them, other than in books. It's the most extraordinary way of communicating. When I write a book that's my job done. Then you read the book and your mind meets my mind. What you are doing all the time is making that story come alive in your own head: learning massively about things you don't know about. It may be the past, it may be the future, it may be geographically a different place, it may be people from another religion, another culture: all these things you can learn in books. And as you are growing up, the more knowledge you have – the more understanding – the more chance you have of coping with a world that is potentially joyful, but also very complex and very difficult.Orli: How do you think children should first be introduced, and at what age, to the war?You have to be very sensitive, but you have not to patronise them. You haven't to talk to children as if they don't know anything and as if you endlessly have to instruct them. I think it's very important not to avoid subjects because they're difficult. We have to know how wicked and evil people can be, but also how strong people can be to survive.Orli: Is it really important to have a happy ending in every war book?Private Peaceful ends terribly, with an execution. There can be no darker ending to a book, and the entire preparation for that execution has been building up right the way through the book. Is this a subject for children? I think probably I'd have to ask you that question. I just wrote it because I thought it was a story that needed to be written. But even at the end of that story the brother survives, and as he marches off – admittedly towards the Somme – in his head there is real determination to survive. So even then, in the bleakest of stories, I think it is important to have some sense of redemption.O: Do you agree we should be more patriotic, like Michael Gove says?Some people, I think, are implying that patriotism comes first. For me it's the pity that comes first; the pity of the ten million lives lost. My passion is in the pity – I'm not the first to say that. You have to be very careful with patriotism. It is important, of course, that we value our country and what it stands for when we're proud of it. And when we're not proud of it we should say so. We've got to be very careful that when we use the word patriotic we're not talking about it in a way that is against people who come from somewhere else.O: War Horse recently started playing in Berlin. How did that make you feel?Proud. I was more proud of that than I've ever been of anything with this whole War Horse bonanza. The thing that has given me most satisfaction is to sit there in that theatre in Berlin – the same theatre where the Kaiser sat, the same theatre where Hitler sat – and talk to German actors who are about to perform this play, which is about reconciliation and a longing for peace. It's been one of the great highlights of my life.O: Stories such as War Horse and Private Peaceful have moved many people and brought them to tears. Have you ever cried when seeing a film or play of one of your books?Frequently. The play's not the same every night and it's not as good every night, but when it's perfectly right: yes, it leaves me in shreds, as it does an awful lot of people. When I'm writing stories that touch on these subjects I am also very moved. The more difficult a book is to write, emotionally, for me the better it is, because it means I'm lost in it completely.O: Do you think in fifty or a hundred years people will still be talking about the first world war?Oh yes, they'll certainly be writing about it and talking about it. It is in a strange sort of way the most iconic of all wars. It was the first time, really, that massed armies of the people were put in this extraordinary situation. And what they didn't realise is that we had invented weapons of war which were so overwhelmingly powerful and destructive, that having lots of soldiers just made no difference – they were just wiped out. So it was human flesh against this extraordinary array of new armaments. I'll give you two more answers. The book you've just written is always the one that's buzzing around your head. I've just written a book which is called Listen to the Moon. It's a story about a girl who survives the sinking of a great ship called the Lusitania. She survived by clinging to the top of the piano that was floating in the ocean. The other answer to give you is that they're all my favourites, as they would be if I was a parent. F: I consider you a legend. How does it feel to be a child's hero?A leg-end in my own lifetime… These words are very over-used, if I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not a hero, I tell stories. I love telling stories. It's enough for me that children like the stories. Shall I tell you who the heroes are? The heroes are the people that no one knows are heroes. Up and down this country and everywhere, what you will find is that there are people in their homes looking after people who can't look after themselves, quietly. If there is such a thing as a hero, it's those people because they live selflessly. You really can't have anyone as a hero who is obsessed by collecting socks. Choose another hero. F: Can you give a message to people from my generation about why we should keep reading despite all our computers and gadgets?Yes I can. I don't know any other way that young people can come to an understanding of themselves and relationships and other peoples and the world around them, other than in books. It's the most extraordinary way of communicating. When I write a book that's my job done. Then you read the book and your mind meets my mind. What you are doing all the time is making that story come alive in your own head: learning massively about things you don't know about. It may be the past, it may be the future, it may be geographically a different place, it may be people from another religion, another culture: all these things you can learn in books. And as you are growing up, the more knowledge you have – the more understanding – the more chance you have of coping with a world that is potentially joyful, but also very complex and very difficult. Orli: How do you think children should first be introduced, and at what age, to the war?You have to be very sensitive, but you have not to patronise them. You haven't to talk to children as if they don't know anything and as if you endlessly have to instruct them. I think it's very important not to avoid subjects because they're difficult. We have to know how wicked and evil people can be, but also how strong people can be to survive. Orli: Is it really important to have a happy ending in every war book?Private Peaceful ends terribly, with an execution. There can be no darker ending to a book, and the entire preparation for that execution has been building up right the way through the book. Is this a subject for children? I think probably I'd have to ask you that question. I just wrote it because I thought it was a story that needed to be written. But even at the end of that story the brother survives, and as he marches off – admittedly towards the Somme – in his head there is real determination to survive. So even then, in the bleakest of stories, I think it is important to have some sense of redemption. O: Do you agree we should be more patriotic, like Michael Gove says?Some people, I think, are implying that patriotism comes first. For me it's the pity that comes first; the pity of the ten million lives lost. My passion is in the pity – I'm not the first to say that. You have to be very careful with patriotism. It is important, of course, that we value our country and what it stands for when we're proud of it. And when we're not proud of it we should say so. We've got to be very careful that when we use the word patriotic we're not talking about it in a way that is against people who come from somewhere else. O: War Horse recently started playing in Berlin. How did that make you feel?Proud. I was more proud of that than I've ever been of anything with this whole War Horse bonanza. The thing that has given me most satisfaction is to sit there in that theatre in Berlin – the same theatre where the Kaiser sat, the same theatre where Hitler sat – and talk to German actors who are about to perform this play, which is about reconciliation and a longing for peace. It's been one of the great highlights of my life. O: Stories such as War Horse and Private Peaceful have moved many people and brought them to tears. Have you ever cried when seeing a film or play of one of your books?Frequently. The play's not the same every night and it's not as good every night, but when it's perfectly right: yes, it leaves me in shreds, as it does an awful lot of people. When I'm writing stories that touch on these subjects I am also very moved. The more difficult a book is to write, emotionally, for me the better it is, because it means I'm lost in it completely. O: Do you think in fifty or a hundred years people will still be talking about the first world war?Oh yes, they'll certainly be writing about it and talking about it. It is in a strange sort of way the most iconic of all wars. It was the first time, really, that massed armies of the people were put in this extraordinary situation. And what they didn't realise is that we had invented weapons of war which were so overwhelmingly powerful and destructive, that having lots of soldiers just made no difference – they were just wiped out. So it was human flesh against this extraordinary array of new armaments.
And then there was what happened afterwards. There was the understanding of the war that came through the reading of the poetry and the making of the plays, which soaked this war into us and became how we have interpreted this war. I think those stories are going to last, and we have to go on writing those great books. Not out of a sense just our of remembrance, but because it is an extraordinary moment in history, when history turned itself upside down. We are who we are now, in large part, because of that war, the first world war.And then there was what happened afterwards. There was the understanding of the war that came through the reading of the poetry and the making of the plays, which soaked this war into us and became how we have interpreted this war. I think those stories are going to last, and we have to go on writing those great books. Not out of a sense just our of remembrance, but because it is an extraordinary moment in history, when history turned itself upside down. We are who we are now, in large part, because of that war, the first world war.