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In conversation with Werner Herzog: 'Facts do not constitute truth' In conversation with Werner Herzog: 'Facts do not constitute truth'
(about 4 hours later)
On Thursday night, at the Howard Gilman Opera House, in Brooklyn, Werner Herzog sat on a stage reading bits of his own books and watching clips of his own films. At midnight, he would turn 72 – the old rogue of the New Cinema. Fans had come from all over to see the great man speak truths.On Thursday night, at the Howard Gilman Opera House, in Brooklyn, Werner Herzog sat on a stage reading bits of his own books and watching clips of his own films. At midnight, he would turn 72 – the old rogue of the New Cinema. Fans had come from all over to see the great man speak truths.
Herzog said: “Man is a god when he dreams, but a beggar when he reflects.” He said: “Facts do not constitute the truth. There is a deeper stratum.” He said: “Someone is probably fact-checking this right now. Let them fact-check themselves to death!”Herzog said: “Man is a god when he dreams, but a beggar when he reflects.” He said: “Facts do not constitute the truth. There is a deeper stratum.” He said: “Someone is probably fact-checking this right now. Let them fact-check themselves to death!”
Herzog was promoting a new book. It is called A Guide for the Perplexed – a collection of his dialogues, adages, assertions. In his trademark accented English, Herzog read from its pages.Herzog was promoting a new book. It is called A Guide for the Perplexed – a collection of his dialogues, adages, assertions. In his trademark accented English, Herzog read from its pages.
“Thwart institutional cowardice.”“Thwart institutional cowardice.”
“Despair must be kept private and brief.”“Despair must be kept private and brief.”
“That roll of unexposed celluloid in your hands might be the last in existence, so do something impressive with it.”“That roll of unexposed celluloid in your hands might be the last in existence, so do something impressive with it.”
The importance of being impressive seemed to dawn afresh on the German.The importance of being impressive seemed to dawn afresh on the German.
Herzog said: “While making Signs of Life, I met a man who began to tell a story. He talked so wildly he did not notice his leg, which was wooden, was on fire.”Herzog said: “While making Signs of Life, I met a man who began to tell a story. He talked so wildly he did not notice his leg, which was wooden, was on fire.”
He said, “Let’s try to get into that kind of mood.”He said, “Let’s try to get into that kind of mood.”
Brooklyn laughed.Brooklyn laughed.
Herzog said: “I know not fear!”Herzog said: “I know not fear!”
The intellectual Paul Holdengräber sat next to him. Their chairs were angled towards each other. He said: “You’ve said that there is only one other person in history who could have made Fitzcarraldo.”The intellectual Paul Holdengräber sat next to him. Their chairs were angled towards each other. He said: “You’ve said that there is only one other person in history who could have made Fitzcarraldo.”
“That person is King Ludwig II of Bavaria,” Herzog said.“That person is King Ludwig II of Bavaria,” Herzog said.
He is called the Swan King. He built enormous castles, loved the music of Richard Wagner, and amazed the peasantry with his caprices. In 1886, he committed suicide by drowning himself in Lake Starnberg.He is called the Swan King. He built enormous castles, loved the music of Richard Wagner, and amazed the peasantry with his caprices. In 1886, he committed suicide by drowning himself in Lake Starnberg.
Herzog said: “King Ludwig was very, very lonesome and sad.Herzog said: “King Ludwig was very, very lonesome and sad.
“He was stark mad!”“He was stark mad!”
Herzog made Fitzcarraldo between 1979 and 1981. It remains his most famous film, and he told again of its disaster-ridden production – the diseases that afflicted cast and crew, the burning of his jungle camp to the ground in a border war between Ecuador and Peru. When his star, Klaus Kinski, threatened to quit, Herzog threatened him with a shotgun.Herzog made Fitzcarraldo between 1979 and 1981. It remains his most famous film, and he told again of its disaster-ridden production – the diseases that afflicted cast and crew, the burning of his jungle camp to the ground in a border war between Ecuador and Peru. When his star, Klaus Kinski, threatened to quit, Herzog threatened him with a shotgun.
“Everything that could have happened did,” Herzog said.“Everything that could have happened did,” Herzog said.
Under the dimmed lights in Brooklyn, it seemed the definition of romance.Under the dimmed lights in Brooklyn, it seemed the definition of romance.
He spoke of cannibals, who menaced but did not eat him, and of actors – Kinski, Nicolas Cage. “They were great, but Bruno S was the greatest,” Herzog said. (Bruno S starred in The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser and Stroszek.) Asked to read four lines of a poem by Friedrich Hölderlin, Herzog read for four minutes. Asked to tell the story of his wife and the plane, Herzog said: “There was turbulence, and I told Lena, ‘Don’t worry. It will come down one way or another.’ ”He spoke of cannibals, who menaced but did not eat him, and of actors – Kinski, Nicolas Cage. “They were great, but Bruno S was the greatest,” Herzog said. (Bruno S starred in The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser and Stroszek.) Asked to read four lines of a poem by Friedrich Hölderlin, Herzog read for four minutes. Asked to tell the story of his wife and the plane, Herzog said: “There was turbulence, and I told Lena, ‘Don’t worry. It will come down one way or another.’ ”
Holdengräber hunched and removed his glasses. He let the auteur talk over him.Holdengräber hunched and removed his glasses. He let the auteur talk over him.
“Even if his throat were cut and his head were chopped off, speech balloons would still dangle from his mouth like gases emitted by internal decay,” wrote Kinski of Herzog in his autobiography, Kinski Uncut.“Even if his throat were cut and his head were chopped off, speech balloons would still dangle from his mouth like gases emitted by internal decay,” wrote Kinski of Herzog in his autobiography, Kinski Uncut.
Herzog claims to have ghostwritten it.Herzog claims to have ghostwritten it.
To his audience at the opera house, he described film-making as a “pilgrimage”. In person, as on screen or page, he is off the wall and over the top and beyond the pale. He is a pilgrim on his way to a place that is really an idea: too far.To his audience at the opera house, he described film-making as a “pilgrimage”. In person, as on screen or page, he is off the wall and over the top and beyond the pale. He is a pilgrim on his way to a place that is really an idea: too far.
“Ski-jumping,” Herzog said. “It was the fever dream of my adolescence.”“Ski-jumping,” Herzog said. “It was the fever dream of my adolescence.”
He played clips of airborne jumpers and commanded Brooklyn to scrutinise their faces. He played clips of airborne jumpers in slow motion and commanded Brooklyn to scrutinise their faces.
Their lips rippled in alpine winds.Their lips rippled in alpine winds.
Herzog said: “The ecstasy of solitude!”Herzog said: “The ecstasy of solitude!”
Hodlengräber reminded him of the dictum, attributed to Blaise Pascal, that opens Lessons of Darkness, Herzog’s 1992 documentary: “The collapse of the stellar universe will occur – like creation – in grandiose splendour.” Holdengräber reminded him of the dictum, attributed to Blaise Pascal, that opens Lessons of Darkness, Herzog’s 1992 documentary: “The collapse of the stellar universe will occur – like creation – in grandiose splendour.”
Herzog repeated it. He said, “Actually, Pascal didn’t write that. I wrote that.”Herzog repeated it. He said, “Actually, Pascal didn’t write that. I wrote that.”
Holdengräber said: “But it sounds so very like Pascal.”Holdengräber said: “But it sounds so very like Pascal.”
“Pascal should have written it,” Herzog said, of the 17th-century philosopher. “That’s why I signed his name.”“Pascal should have written it,” Herzog said, of the 17th-century philosopher. “That’s why I signed his name.”