Pussy Riot in conversation with Luke Harding – as it happened

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/nov/17/pussy-riot-putin-prisons-guardian-live-updates

Version 0 of 1.

9.12pm GMT21:12

Финал

Наша трансляция подошла к концу. Врубили музыку и мы снова на панк-концерте. Звучит The Clash, зрители аплодируют, надежда, оптимизм, революция. Ждем звонка и выходим на улицы.

Спасибо, что оставались с нами. Мы же идем в паб пропустить по пинте с парнем на фотографии.

9.04pm GMT21:04

That's a wrap

That’s it then. It feels like we’re in a punk rock concert again. The Clash; a roaring crowd; hope; optimism; revolution even. We’re just waiting for that phone call to really kick loose.

Thanks for staying with us ... we’re going for a drink with the guy outside.

Updated at 11.13pm GMT

9.03pm GMT21:03

A few reactions from the audience, we think people enjoyed it:

Enthralling discussion tonight from @pussyrrriot #GuardianLive

Someone having "fun"with exiting music choice. White Riot by The Clash. #pussyriot #guardianlive

Borat, Banksy and Strangelove: the unexpected artistic doctrines driving the Pussy Riot revolution #GuardianLive

Here’s us in the same position 1.5 hours later:

Thank you ladies for your hard work on Twitter tonight #GuardianLive pic.twitter.com/3p496jKBp2

And someone buy this guy a drink:

As I left the theatre one last act of protest #guardianlive pic.twitter.com/sWE0PquuRd

Updated at 9.04pm GMT

8.51pm GMT20:51

More questions from the audience

What are your relations like with the original Pussy Riot members, we heard you fell out?

We have good relations. I know what you are referring to, but we can’t really say. It’s against the principles of the group to exclude anyone from the group.

(**We’re not sure that that really answers the question – a bit of a theme, perhaps?)

What should we as UK citizens do to help you achieve your aims?

Nadya: It depends on your taste. For example, I saw a nice action in Sweden where there was a whole stadium of people singing the Russian anthem, surrounded by LGBT flags, during the Winter Games in Sochi.

Piotr: It was a very beautiful action.

Suppose the time comes when you do get to give Luke a call and say, the revolution is tomorrow. What will you be doing next?

Masha: I don’t think we would jump into being official bodies, but we would want to be cultural activists who have influence. But the revolution usually takes people to very unexpected places, and you never know where you might find yourself.

Nadya: We may turn the KGB building in Moscow into Disneyland.

Why did you decide to use art as a means of protest? Can we expect more performances from you – in Russia or in the west?

Nadya: Holding up posters is boring.

Masha: We did do classical protests for several years. Then we wanted to find a new form.

Piotr is talking about Riot Grrl ... but we’ve lost him

How active is the social media in Russia? Is it restricted?

Nadya: It’s very active. But recently there’s a new law (read about it here) that makes you register as a news organisation if you have more than 3,000 readers.

Have you met Russell Brand?

No, should we? We should. We watch his programmes in Russia.

Luke: Do you like his programmes?

Nadya: We think he should come to Russia.

Luke: Doesn’t Russia have enough problems?

What is the importance of non-violence as a tactic against a violent state?

Nadya: We live in a violent and militaristic state, it’s war. So it’s hard to think about the discourse in which your question exists. Obviously non-violence is better than violence, but we live in a constant atmosphere of violence.

Masha: Even in violent conditions we should use non-violence. But we don’t have a mechanism in Russia. We wish it was possible to influence the government by non violent means, like during the Vietnam war, but in Russia no one takes any notice.

Updated at 8.53pm GMT

8.44pm GMT20:44

Троллинг в России

Теперь об очень важном. Почему комментарии к статье о вас оказались настолько ужасными?

Россия тратит много денег на подобные вещи. Петр объясняет, что правительство платит интернет-троллям за комментарии к статьям в Guardian. “У них есть фабрика троллей, производящая подобные вещи”.

8.43pm GMT20:43

Questions from the audience

Following Russian news media, it seems to us in the west that its beyond parody – for example the pictures of Putin represented like Hercules. Seems that Russian propaganda has gone beyond satire. Does it work with the Russian population?

Masha: I don’t think we should dramatise too much, we should just find ways to work.

What gives you hope?

Nadya: I don’t think about hope, because my name means hope. I don’t think about myself.

Masha: Every time we’re able to get someone out of prison, or if we get a reply to social networks - not from a troll - from someone who gets what we’re doing. It inspires us and gives us hope to go forward. So if we say Zona Prava is looking for volunteers, and the next day volunteers show up, that gives up hope.

What are your opinions on Khordokovsky, another outspoken Russian prisoner?

Masha: we think that he has a lot of political potential, and that if he runs for elections he will be one of the leaders. We think that he’s a good example of how you can act in Russia.

Luke: The thing that struck me about him, was that there was a real calmness about him. Something happened when he was in jail for 10 years. Do you think that?

Nadya: What he is supposed to do?

Masha: He doesn’t have to jump. We’re jumping, he’s not jumping.

Masha: We can divide our roles in modern Russia, they don’t have to be the same

Updated at 9.48am GMT

8.35pm GMT20:35

Если ситуация в России настолько плоха, почему популярен Путин?

После краткого упоминания Иисуса Христа, речь идет о бывшем советском диссиденте Владимире Буковском. По словам Нади, для них он является героем. Маша прочитала его автобиографию “Построить замок” в тюрьме.

Теперь о серьезном. Вопрос задает Люк. Если ситуация в России настолько плохая, почему Владимир Путин пользуются такой большой популярностью.

“Это фальшивая популярность”, - говорит Маша. Надя добавляет: “Гитлер тоже был популярен”.

“Мне было интересно, когда же речь зайдет об Адольфе”, - шутит Люк.

Проблема в том, что русским не хватает политического образования и у них нет времени думать о политике из-за низкого качества жизни. Они думают о выживании, говорит Маша (ее слова на английский переводит Петр Верзилов).

8.23pm GMT20:23

Тюремный быт

Надя рассказывает о навыках, приобретенных в тюрьме. Теперь она умеет открывать жестяные банки об асфальт и разогревать чай, используя горящую прокладку. “Если бы не тюрьма, я бы никогда не узнала, что брови можно выщипывать ниткой”.

Люк: “Вы так об этом рассказываете, как будто в тюрьме вам было весело. Однако, если прочитать ваши письма из тюрьмы, вы прошли через некую форму рабства”.

Надя: “Да, заключенные работают 16 часов в сутки. Если ты не слушаешься указаний или делаешь что-то не так, тебя наказывают. Не только тебя, но и окружающих тебя людей. Например, в качестве наказания они запрещают тебе ходить в туалет. Поступают они именно так”.

Маша: “Если ты защищаешь себя, они настраивают против тебя других заключенных. Тюремные власти говорят им, что источниками неприятностей являемся мы. Я провела шесть месяцев в одиночном заключении за то, что сразу после прибытия туда я посмела написать письмо. Тюремные работники говорили заключенным, что если те не будут оказывать на нас давление, они будут наказаны. У заключенных было отобрано право на звонок домой, и им сказали, что виновата была в этом я”.

Речь идет о судебном процессе, в результате которого Маша и Надя оказались за решеткой. Особого упоминания удостоилась одна собака. Более подробно о суде можно прочитать здесь.

8.23pm GMT20:23

Your questions

And now for a quick fire round of some of the questions from you, our loyal readers:

Where'd you girls get your hair done? BTW Looks really good ;-)

We have a friend, she does it for us. She doesn’t charge us.

Do you think your actions have a positive impact in Russia? Do you think how we perceive Russia is accurate? Is the European press fair in it's articles on Russia and Putin?And what was it like to meet Madonna? What did she say?

vincentje asked: what was it like to meet Madonna?

She gave us a kebab (**really?)

Why do you think it is Russian women like you, Anna Politkovskaya, Lidia Yusopova who show the most bravery in defying their leaders?

Also, Chekov said: "Russians love their past, hate their present and fear their future." Do you agree?

We just get more attention - women are more popular in the west.

Nadya @pussyrrriot: 'The west report more on women activists because of 'sexy time'.' [Borat reference but fair point] #guardianlive

Is it at all confusing to have 'iconic' status in a land full of icons?

and: What did you think of 'Peter's Friends'?

I think the question is more interesting than anything we can say.

Updated at 8.29pm GMT

8.16pm GMT20:16

Troll factories

And now the really important stuff. Why are the comments below the line on the articles about you so bad?

Russia spends a lot of money on these things. Piotr explains that the government pay trolls to comment under Guardian articles in particular. “They actually have a troll factory where they manufacture these things.”

They actually have a troll factory where they manufacture these things

Updated at 8.28pm GMT

8.14pm GMT20:14

‘If Russia is so bad, why is Putin so popular’

After a brief discussion about Jesus, we’re talking about the former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky. Nadya says that he is one of their heroes. Masha read his autobiographical book, To Build a Castle, in jail. It was a very important work, she says.

Now we’re getting to the important stuff: “if Russia is so bad, why is Putin so popular”, asks Luke?

“It’s fake popularity”, says Masha.

"How is Putin popular?" Masha: "it's not real, it's a subversion of reality, no political education, political interest low" #guardianlive

“Hitler was popular too”, adds Nadya.

“I wondered how long it would be before we got to Adolf”, says Luke.

“The problem is that Russians don’t have much political education, and don’t have time to think about politics because the quality of life is so low that they are preoccupied with survival”, says Masha (via Piotr).

Apparently there’s a word that they’ve agreed not to use – we don’t know what it is.

Updated at 9.49am GMT

8.02pm GMT20:02

Prison life

Nadya explains some of the skills she acquired in prison. She knows how to open tin cans in the street with asphalt. She learned how to heat water for tea by using a burning tampon. “If I hadn’t gone to prison I’d never know how to use simple thread to do your eyebrows.

Luke: You make it sound like fun, but it seems to me that both of you experienced something like slavery, from what you wrote in your letters?

Nadya: Yes, people would work for 16 hours a day. If you tried to rebel or do something wrong, you would be punished. Not only you but the people around you. They would refuse to allow you to go to the toilet, for example, as a punishment. That’s how they work.

Masha: If you do something to protect yourself, they turn other prisoners against you. They tell them that we were causing trouble. I spend six months in solitary confinement because once I arrived in prison I dared to write an article about it. They told the women in my section that if they don’t pressure me, they will be punished. They took away their right to call their families, and told them it was because of me.

It's harder to hide candy in your bra than it is to sell heroine in prison - @pussyrrriot #GuardianLive

Prison reform seems to be a goal still not reached in Russia #guardianlive #humanrights

There’s a lot of talk about the trial that sent Masha and Nadya to jail - and the dog that played a significant part. You can read more about that here.

Updated at 11.14pm GMT

7.56pm GMT19:56

Теперь о серьзном. Люк говорит, что все мы были наполнены оптимизмом в 2012 году. Мы надеялись на перемены. Для молодых и талантливых это стало настоящей дилеммой: оставаться в стране и не “выступать” или уезжать за границу. Какие планы у вас?

Надя: “Мы основали неправительственную организацию “Медиазона” MediaZona. Для вас это может звучать как стоящее начинание, но в России это не так. Вас будут критиковать, вы станете мишенью. Мы посетили ряд НКО в вашей стране и у них все нормально. Я бы уснула через пару часов.”

Маша: “Мы не НКО. Нас не регистрируют”.

Петр: “Российские власти отказываются регистрировать нашу организацию. Говорят, что не понимают, что значит ее название”.

7.51pm GMT19:51

‘We’re not people who like a nice life. We like difficult’

Seriously though, says Luke, we were all optimistic in 2012, with all the protests, we thought things were going to change. For young, talented people, it’s a real dilemma. Do you stay there and keep your head down, or do you leave for the west. What are you going to do?

Masha: “We’re not people who like a nice life. We like difficult. We’re working with ngos and the media to show people that you can.”

Nadya: “We have started an ngo called MediaZona. For you that may sound worthy, but in Russia, it’s different. You will be attacked, you will become a target. We’ve been to see some ngos here, and it’s very comfortable. I would fall asleep after two hours.”

Masha: “We are not actually an ngo. They won’t register us as an ngo.”

Piotr: “The Russian authorities have refused to register the ngo, they say they don’t know what the name means.”

Updated at 11.14pm GMT

7.46pm GMT19:46

Люк спрашивает, когда наступит революция в России.

“Хороший вопрос”, - отвечает Маша.

Надя: “Не хотелось бы предупреждать Путина об этом”.

Люк: “Значит, революция будет в следующий вторник”.

Маша: “Мы тебе позвоним”.

7.46pm GMT19:46

Viva la revolution?

Viva la revolution?

Luke: “When will the Russian revolution be?”

Masha: “It’s a good question”

Nadya: “I don’t think we should warn Putin when it will be.”

Luke: “It’s next Tuesday then, is it?”

Masha: “We’ll call you.”

Updated at 11.17pm GMT

7.42pm GMT19:42

Люк интересуется, в какой степени в конфликте в Украине виновато российское правительство. Или же следует винить в нем Запад?

Маша отвечает, что Путин не может просто так оставить успех протестов на Майдане, в результате которого было свергнуто украинское правительство, потому что они показали: народная революция может иметь положительный результат. До этого Украина являлась ярким примером неудавшихся революций.

7.40pm GMT19:40

Ukraine

On Ukraine:

Luke asks to what extent the conflict in Ukraine is the fault of the Russian government - or the west. Masha says that Putin couldn’t allow the success of the Maidan protests, that overthrew the government, to remain unchallenged - because it showed people that revolutions could be successful. Until then Ukraine had been the prime example of how revolutions weren’t successful.

Updated at 11.20pm GMT

7.34pm GMT19:34

Маша объясняет, что проблем с церковью как таковой у них нет, несмотря на несанкционированный панк-молебен в храме Христа Спасителя в Москве. Проблема в определенном храме.

Люк: “Устраивая акцию в церкви, какой результат вы ожидали? Не аплодисменты же”.

Маша: “Мы были готовы допеть песню до конца. К сожалению, этого не произошло”.

7.29pm GMT19:29

Masha is explaining that Pussy Riot doesn’t have problems with church per se, despite the famous gate-crashing incident in Moscow’s Christ the Saviour cathedral. It’s that church in particular.

Luke: When you did the concert, how did you think it was going to end, it was never going to end with them applauding?

Masha: We were prepared to finish the song. Unfortunately we didn’t get there. We weren’t getting ready for applause, we just wanted to finish and get out of there

7.27pm GMT19:27

Нам интересно узнать, что вы думаете о Pussy Riot и их деятельности. Что вас восхищает в них? Что не нравится? Есть ли другие активисты в России, о которых стоит рассказать? Ждем ваши комментарии. Мы разместии некоторые по ходу нашей трансляции.

7.27pm GMT19:27

As we follow proceeding we also want to hear your views on Pussy Riot and their brand of activism. What do you admire about them? Maybe you have reservations? Are there others in the region that deserve recognition and if so who? Add your thoughts in the thread and will feed some into the live blog.

7.26pm GMT19:26

Про юмор:

Люк интересуется: “Насколько важен юмор в России сегодня? Путин не смеется над собой”. “Без юмора в России жить невозможно”, - отвечает Маша.

Надя: “В России шутят, что все на Западе занимаются только сексом”. Петр

Петр Верзилов: “Российский государственный юмор полон гомосексуального подтекста”.

7.22pm GMT19:22

There’s lot of banter going on. We’ll try to capture it for you:

Luke asks how important humour is in today’s Russia … Putin doesn’t laugh at himself.”

Without humour its impossible to live in Russia, says Masha.

In Russia the joke goes: everyone is the west is having sex, says Nadya.

The Russian state humour is indoctrinated with homosexuality, say Piotr.

(not sure whether that translated well)

Updated at 7.53pm GMT

7.21pm GMT19:21

Первый “эксклюзив”: Надя и Маша обожают Бората. Почему?Маша: “Мы - это герой. Хотим мы этого или нет”.

7.19pm GMT19:19

Надя, Маша и Люк вышли на сцену под продолжительные аплодисменты.

7.19pm GMT19:19

“Tomorrow we’re going to speak at parliament and it will be almost like the Ali G movie,”, says Piotr (Nadya’s husband and translator).

They are also big fans of Banksy: “we like the mouses and hamsters”, says Nadya

7.16pm GMT19:16

We’ve got our first scoop: Nadya and Masha are big fans of Borat. Why?

“We watched the movie and we realised - we are that character, we are Borat, whether we want it or not,” says Masha.

7.13pm GMT19:13

Very enthusiastic welcome as Nadya, Masha and Luke take to the stage.

Updated at 7.14pm GMT

7.12pm GMT19:12

Пока мы ждем наших героинь, почитайте статью @ASLuhn о том, как Владимир Путин обвинил Запад в том, что он провоцирует Россию на новую Холодную войну

7.10pm GMT19:10

While we’re waiting, here’s @ASLuhn on how Putin has accused the west of provoking Russia into a new cold war.

Updated at 7.11pm GMT

7.03pm GMT19:03

Hard at work - but still no Pussy Riot

Guardian bloggers getting ready to live blog #pussyriot #guardianlive and the place is half full already. pic.twitter.com/2I0fawz1Bo

Updated at 7.05pm GMT

6.52pm GMT18:52

Поделитесь вашими селфи в стиле панк: #guardianlive

Во время экскурсии по Лондону с Люком Хардингом Маша и Надя сделали многочисленные селфи. Думаете, что можете снять автопортрет лучше?

Если вы находитесь среди зрителей в зале или читаете нашу трансляцию, присылайте нам ваши селфи а-ля Pussy Riot в стиле панк.

Вывешивайте их в Инстаграмме или в Твиттере (@GuardianNewEast #GuardianLive) и размещайте ссылку в разделе “Комментарии”. Лучшие из них будут упомянуты во время онлайн-трансляции.

6.51pm GMT18:51

Share your punk selfies: #guardianlive

It was selfies a go-go when Luke Harding spent an afternoon with Masha and Nadya in London. Think you can do any better?

If you are at the event tonight or following the live blog, why not send us your own punk selfies à la Pussy Riot.

Share them by posting an Instagram or Twitter (@GuardianNewEast #GuardianLive) link in the comments below. We’ll include the best in the live blog.

6.43pm GMT18:43

To kick it off here’s short history of Pussy Riot

Для начала краткая история Pussy Riot

The collective came together in Moscow in 2011 as a radical feminist punk band with an anti-establishment agenda, protecting their anonymity in brightly coloured knitted balaclavas. Here’s a short history of what happened next:

February 2012: Pussy Riot gains global notoriety for their anti-Putin “punk prayer” performance in Moscow’s Christ the Saviour cathedral. The lyrics of the anthem included: “Virgin Mary, Mother of God, banish Putin, banish Putin”

March 2012: Six members of the collective are arrested and charged in connection with hate crimes and violations of public order

August 2012: Three members – Masha Alyokhina, 24, Nadya Tolokonnikova, 22, and Yekaterina Samutsevich 29 – are found guilty of hooliganism and sentenced to two-years in prison

October 2012: Yekaterina Samutsevich is released after an appeal court overturns her sentence. Her lawyers successfully argued that she had not participated fully in February’s “punk prayer” performance

September 2013: Nadya goes on hunger strike in protest over “slave-like” prison conditions and claims she has received death threats from prison guards

December 2013: Masha an Nadya are freed from prison as part of an amnesty which saw the release of thousands of inmates. Masha dismisses the action as a PR stunt and Nadya shouts “Russia without Putin” on her release and vows to campaign on Russian penal reform

February 2014: An anonymous open letter from the founding members claims that Nadya and Masha “are no longer part of Pussy Riot”. They say they have become “carried away” with campaigning for Russian prisons, neglecting the group’s original ideals which include feminism and resisting the cult of personality

February 2014: Fresh out of jail Masha and Nadya visit Sochi during the Winter Olympics. A surreal few days in which sees them whipped by Cossacks – being used as informal security, arrested several times and harassed by a chicken.

September 2014: Nadya and Masha launch MediaZona: an independent news agency with a focus on Russian justice and the penal system, in addition to their ongoing work on prison reform

November 2014: The pair embark on their first trip the the UK, first stop the Guardian.

Updated at 6.43pm GMT

6.40pm GMT18:40

Добрый вечер! Начинаем нашу прямую онлайн-трансляцию.

Гости собрались у дверей лондонского Greenwood Theatre под дождем. На сегодняшний вечер было продано 440 билетов. Мы ожидаем, что скоро в зале не останется ни одного свободного места. Из динамиков звучит панк.

6.36pm GMT18:36

People have been waiting in the rain outside London’s Greenwood Theatre. We’re expecting a full house – 440 tickets have been sold for tonight’s event. In the meantime we’re listening to a punk soundtrack. Sex Pistols now.

1.04pm GMT13:04

Добро пожаловать на Guardian live с Pussy Riot и Люком Хардингом.

Сегодня вечером журналист газеты Guardian Люк Хардинг, Надежда Толоконникова и Мария Алехина обсудят права женщин, политическую свободу и российскую систему правосудия. Не исключено, что на встрече зайдет разговор и о Владимире Путине.

Надежда и Мария особо не нуждаются в представлении. После проведения протестных акций в Москве и других городах России в 2012 году они практически в одночасье стали всемирно знаменитыми. С тех пор девушки успели провести время за решеткой, объявить голодовку, выйти на свободу и основать собственное новостное агентство, по пути приобретая как друзей так и врагов.

Команда New East будет вести блог-трансляцию с мероприятия в режиме реального времени на английском и – впервые в истории Guardian – на русском языке.

Если у вас есть вопрос к Наде или Маше, добавьте его в раздел “Комментарии” ниже. Пять лучших из них мы зададим нашим героиням. Что вы думаете о панк-группе и их акциях протеста? Оставляйте ваши сообщения в разделе “Комментарии” или пишите в Твиттер по адресу @GuardianNewEast.

К сожалению, в настоящее время мы не можем предоставить возможность размещать комментарии к “живому” блогу на русском языке, однако высказаться можно в Твиттере по адресу @GuardianNewEast, используя хэштег #GuardianLive.

До встречи через несколько часов. Ваши Мав, Джудит и Светлана

1.04pm GMT13:04

Welcome to Guardian live with Pussy Riot and Luke Harding

Tonight the Guardian’s Luke Harding will meet Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina of Pussy Riot to discuss women’s rights, political freedom and the Russian justice system. President Vladimir Putin may also crop up.

The duo, who need little introduction, shot to global fame in 2012 after a series of outlandish protests in and around Moscow. Since then they’ve spent time in prison, embarked on a hunger strike, been released and established their own news agency – gathering admirers and critics along the way.

The Guardian New East team will be blogging the proceedings in English and Russian – a Guardian first.

If you have a question for Nadya or Masha post it in the comments below and we’ll select the best five to put to them live tonight. We’d also like to hear what you think of the band and their brand of activism, either in the comment thread or on Twitter @GuardianNewEast using the hashtag #GuardianLive.

See you in a few hours – Maeve, Judith and Svetlana