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| Concerns over terror exclusion plans | |
| (about 1 hour later) | |
| Powers to stop some British fighters returning from Syria and Iraq was an "announcement waiting for a policy", the reviewer of terrorism laws says. | Powers to stop some British fighters returning from Syria and Iraq was an "announcement waiting for a policy", the reviewer of terrorism laws says. |
| David Anderson QC said his "central concern" about the proposals first unveiled by David Cameron in early September was: "Where are the courts?" | David Anderson QC said his "central concern" about the proposals first unveiled by David Cameron in early September was: "Where are the courts?" |
| The home secretary is publishing a new counter terrorism bill later. | The home secretary is publishing a new counter terrorism bill later. |
| It will include plans to stop some British citizens returning to the UK, and others from leaving the country. | It will include plans to stop some British citizens returning to the UK, and others from leaving the country. |
| Theresa May's new measures to tackle terrorism come days after she said the UK faces a "greater" terror threat than ever before. | Theresa May's new measures to tackle terrorism come days after she said the UK faces a "greater" terror threat than ever before. |
| The measures include requiring airlines to pass on details of their passengers and changes to the way TPIMs - Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures - work to monitor terror suspects who cannot be prosecuted. | The measures include requiring airlines to pass on details of their passengers and changes to the way TPIMs - Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures - work to monitor terror suspects who cannot be prosecuted. |
| But campaigners have condemned it, saying it threatens civil liberties. | But campaigners have condemned it, saying it threatens civil liberties. |
| 'Light regime' | 'Light regime' |
| Asked if he thought the original plan to exclude British citizens overseas was necessary, Mr Anderson - appointed by the government to be its independent reviewer of terrorism legislation - said: "I sense that this was an announcement waiting for a policy." | |
| But he told the Joint Committee on Human Rights that some of the proposals in the bill could be "a more sensible" way of dealing with some people suspected of being involved in terrorist activities. | |
| "One could look at it in terms of young, possibly vulnerable people caught up with the wrong crowd in Syria - didn't really know exactly what they were doing," he said. | "One could look at it in terms of young, possibly vulnerable people caught up with the wrong crowd in Syria - didn't really know exactly what they were doing," he said. |
| "Do you want to throw the book at them straight away in terms of arrest and charge? Or is there something to be said, even though you do suspect them of having fought, of keeping them under a very light regime where they might have to report daily to a police station? | "Do you want to throw the book at them straight away in terms of arrest and charge? Or is there something to be said, even though you do suspect them of having fought, of keeping them under a very light regime where they might have to report daily to a police station? |
| "They might have to notify their residence; they might have to go along to meetings with probation or with some similar which perhaps might be for some people be a more sensible way of dealing with them than putting them straight into the criminal justice process." | "They might have to notify their residence; they might have to go along to meetings with probation or with some similar which perhaps might be for some people be a more sensible way of dealing with them than putting them straight into the criminal justice process." |
| The new Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill includes: | The new Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill includes: |
| Conservative committee member Baroness Berridge asked how the suspect would be notified they were under a temporary exclusion order. "And what if they say: 'No, I've not been up to anything?' They can come back can't they?" | Conservative committee member Baroness Berridge asked how the suspect would be notified they were under a temporary exclusion order. "And what if they say: 'No, I've not been up to anything?' They can come back can't they?" |
| Mr Anderson said the use of exclusion orders would require the cooperation of carriers, such as airlines and of states where these people might find themselves. | Mr Anderson said the use of exclusion orders would require the cooperation of carriers, such as airlines and of states where these people might find themselves. |
| "But certainly presented with an order at the check-in desk, the person might say: 'I want to come home,' or decide not to come home," he said. | "But certainly presented with an order at the check-in desk, the person might say: 'I want to come home,' or decide not to come home," he said. |
| Counter-terrorism awareness | Counter-terrorism awareness |
| "The concern I have about this power and the central concern about it is: where are the courts in all of this? | "The concern I have about this power and the central concern about it is: where are the courts in all of this? |
| "If the home secretary wants to impose a TPIM she has to go to the court first and if the court says she's got it wrong, it will say so. | "If the home secretary wants to impose a TPIM she has to go to the court first and if the court says she's got it wrong, it will say so. |
| "One will want to look very carefully to see if this is a power that requires the intervention of the court at any stage, or whether it's simply envisaged as something the home secretary imposes. | "One will want to look very carefully to see if this is a power that requires the intervention of the court at any stage, or whether it's simply envisaged as something the home secretary imposes. |
| "If one is abroad when this order is served on you, then it's a little difficult to see in practical terms how a right to judicial review could be exercised." | "If one is abroad when this order is served on you, then it's a little difficult to see in practical terms how a right to judicial review could be exercised." |
| Mr Anderson spoke out as a week-long counter-terrorism awareness campaign enters its third day. | Mr Anderson spoke out as a week-long counter-terrorism awareness campaign enters its third day. |
| The UK's terror threat level remains "severe" after it was upped from "substantial" earlier this year in response to conflicts in Iraq and Syria. | The UK's terror threat level remains "severe" after it was upped from "substantial" earlier this year in response to conflicts in Iraq and Syria. |
| Speaking ahead of the bill's publication, Mrs May said: "We are in the middle of a generational struggle against a deadly terrorist ideology. These powers are essential to keep up with the very serious and rapidly changing threats we face. | Speaking ahead of the bill's publication, Mrs May said: "We are in the middle of a generational struggle against a deadly terrorist ideology. These powers are essential to keep up with the very serious and rapidly changing threats we face. |
| "In an open and free society, we can never entirely eliminate the threat from terrorism. | "In an open and free society, we can never entirely eliminate the threat from terrorism. |
| "But we must do everything possible in line with our shared values to reduce the risks posed by our enemies. | "But we must do everything possible in line with our shared values to reduce the risks posed by our enemies. |
| "This bill includes a considered, targeted set of proposals that will help to keep us safe at a time of very significant danger by ensuring we have the powers we need to defend ourselves." | "This bill includes a considered, targeted set of proposals that will help to keep us safe at a time of very significant danger by ensuring we have the powers we need to defend ourselves." |
| 'Draconian' | 'Draconian' |
| But Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, said: "Yet again, politicians resort to high talk and rushed legislation in an attempt to look tough in the face of terrorism. Another chilling recipe for injustice and resentment by closing down the open society you seek to promote." | But Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, said: "Yet again, politicians resort to high talk and rushed legislation in an attempt to look tough in the face of terrorism. Another chilling recipe for injustice and resentment by closing down the open society you seek to promote." |
| Amnesty International called the powers "draconian", adding none of the measures seemed "properly thought through". | Amnesty International called the powers "draconian", adding none of the measures seemed "properly thought through". |
| But Mrs May has warned that even the new powers will not fully address the threat, reiterating the need for a Communications Data Bill to bring in more wide-ranging web monitoring powers. | But Mrs May has warned that even the new powers will not fully address the threat, reiterating the need for a Communications Data Bill to bring in more wide-ranging web monitoring powers. |
| That bill - labelled a snooper's charter by critics - was scrapped following Lib Dem opposition. | That bill - labelled a snooper's charter by critics - was scrapped following Lib Dem opposition. |
| On Tuesday a report into the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby concluded the security agencies could not have prevented his death. | On Tuesday a report into the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby concluded the security agencies could not have prevented his death. |
| There were errors in the security operation but they were not "significant enough to have made a difference", the Intelligence and Security Committee report said. | There were errors in the security operation but they were not "significant enough to have made a difference", the Intelligence and Security Committee report said. |
| Fusilier Rigby was killed on 22 May last year, near Woolwich Barracks in London, at the hands of Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale. | Fusilier Rigby was killed on 22 May last year, near Woolwich Barracks in London, at the hands of Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale. |
| David Cameron said internet companies had a "social responsibility" to act on terrorist material posted online after the report detailed how Adebowale spoke on Facebook about wanting to murder a soldier. | David Cameron said internet companies had a "social responsibility" to act on terrorist material posted online after the report detailed how Adebowale spoke on Facebook about wanting to murder a soldier. |
| The social networking site said it did not allow terrorist content and takes steps to prevent it. | The social networking site said it did not allow terrorist content and takes steps to prevent it. |
| The report also said the government's Prevent programme, designed to divert individuals from radicalisation, had not been given sufficient priority. | The report also said the government's Prevent programme, designed to divert individuals from radicalisation, had not been given sufficient priority. |
| But Richard Barrett, former Director of Global Counter Terrorism Operations for MI6, said he believed it was "almost impossible legally and technically" to require firms like Facebook to pass on information about terrorist suspects. | But Richard Barrett, former Director of Global Counter Terrorism Operations for MI6, said he believed it was "almost impossible legally and technically" to require firms like Facebook to pass on information about terrorist suspects. |
| Mr Barrett, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that Facebook has around five billion postings a day. He said there would have to be "a proper legal basis" before companies could be expected to pass on details of possible terrorist postings. | Mr Barrett, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that Facebook has around five billion postings a day. He said there would have to be "a proper legal basis" before companies could be expected to pass on details of possible terrorist postings. |
| And Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy, the national policing lead for the programme, said: "The police cannot be in every mosque, college or other community venue monitoring what is discussed and the doctrines which are promoted. Nor would we want Britain to be such a society. | And Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy, the national policing lead for the programme, said: "The police cannot be in every mosque, college or other community venue monitoring what is discussed and the doctrines which are promoted. Nor would we want Britain to be such a society. |
| "We need parents, schools, partners, friends and colleagues to be aware of the signs that someone is being influenced by extremist messages and have the confidence to report any concerns to the police." | "We need parents, schools, partners, friends and colleagues to be aware of the signs that someone is being influenced by extremist messages and have the confidence to report any concerns to the police." |