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Commons battle over EU under way Commons battle over EU under way
(40 minutes later)
Foreign Secretary David Miliband has opened a rowdy debate on the EU's Lisbon reform treaty saying it is "good for Britain and good for Europe". Foreign Secretary David Miliband has opened a rowdy debate on the EU's Lisbon reform treaty, saying it is "good for Britain and good for Europe".
Starting what is expected to be 20 days of debate over the next month, he said it did not require a referendum.Starting what is expected to be 20 days of debate over the next month, he said it did not require a referendum.
But he was immediately attacked by Tory MPs and Labour backbenchers. Tory John Redwood said powers were being given away "needlessly and recklessly". But he was immediately attacked by Tory MPs and some Labour backbenchers. Tory John Redwood said powers were being given away "needlessly and recklessly".
The PM signed the Lisbon treaty in December but Parliament must ratify it. The PM signed the Lisbon Treaty in December but Parliament must ratify it.
Eighteen Labour and four nationalist MPs have signed an amendment calling for a referendum on the document - which the government has ruled out. It aims to replace the EU Constitution, which was ditched after being rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005, but on which Labour had promised a referendum.
But the Commons speaker has decided against calling that amendment. A vote on the whole bill is due at about 2200 GMT. We believe this treaty is good for Britain and good for Europe David MilibandForeign secretary class="" href="/1/hi/world/europe/6901353.stm">Q&A: Lisbon Treaty class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/7198580.stm">Analysis: Political battles
The Tories will vote against, but the Lib Dems will vote in favour - meaning there is little chance of a defeat. Eighteen Labour and four nationalist MPs have signed an amendment calling for a referendum on the document - the government says it is not needed as the treaty is not the same as the constitution.
'Battle' The Commons speaker has decided against calling that amendment. A vote on the whole bill is due at about 2200 GMT.
The government had promised a referendum on the constitution - which was thrown out by Dutch and French voters in 2005 - but argues that this is not necessary for the treaty, as it is different in character. Opening the debate, Mr Miliband said the Lisbon Treaty was "a fundamentally different treaty" for Britain.
Rebel Labour MP Ian Davidson called the Commons vote on the amendment "the start of the battle, rather than the end of the war". "The government is convinced that Britain's membership of and full engagement with the EU is good for Britain and good for Europe," he said.
The reform treaty is there for parliament to scrutinise and then to pass David MilibandForeign secretary class="" href="/1/hi/world/europe/6901353.stm">Q&A: Lisbon Treaty class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/7198580.stm">Analysis: Political battles "We believe this treaty is good for Britain and good for Europe."
He added: "We hope to get our message out to people in the country who will in turn tell their MPs that they do want a referendum so that by the time we come to the next vote in the committee stage, the pressure will very much have built up." 'Appalling' speech
But he came under immediate attack from former Welsh Secretary John Redwood, who demanded: "Why won't he give us a referendum when his party promised us one and when all the powers we were worried about transferring in the constitution are being given away needlessly and recklessly in this document?"
Mr Miliband said it was because "this is a Parliamentary democracy and this is an amending treaty."
Senior Labour MP Gwyneth Dunwoody warned Mr Miliband: "I think you may find yourself alone in that point of view."
Labour MPs Frank Field and Gisela Stuart were also among those who stood up to question whether the treaty was fundamentally different to the constitution.
There is no material difference between the provisions on foreign affairs in the Constitutional Treaty...and those in the Lisbon Treaty Foreign affairs committee What are the arguments?
Veteran Tory MP Patrick Cormack accused Mr Miliband of making an "appalling" speech and suggested the House be adjourned so Mr Miliband could "go and write a proper one".
Another Tory MP, Andrew Robathan, was told to retract comments that the foreign secretary's speech was "a rant of propaganda that would be worthy of Goebbels".
But Labour MP Rob Marris said demands for a referendum were really "a cover" for those who wish to withdraw from Europe.
Treaty signed
The Tories will vote against the bill, but the Lib Dems will vote in favour - meaning there is little chance of a defeat.
Ministers argue that no referendum is needed as the treaty merely amends the EU's existing constitution, rather than overwriting it - as the failed constitution would have done.Ministers argue that no referendum is needed as the treaty merely amends the EU's existing constitution, rather than overwriting it - as the failed constitution would have done.
Europe Minister Jim Murphy has dismissed claims that up to 100 Labour MPs are unhappy with the refusal to hold a public vote.Europe Minister Jim Murphy has dismissed claims that up to 100 Labour MPs are unhappy with the refusal to hold a public vote.
'MPs must decide' Mr Brown signed the treaty hours after the official ceremony in December
But shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the EU Reform Treaty - now widely known as the Lisbon Treaty - was widely seen as being "90% or 95% the same" as the failed EU constitution, on which all parties had promised a vote. Prime Minister Gordon Brown signed the treaty, as did other EU leaders, in December, but it has to be ratified by all EU parliaments before coming into force.
There is no material difference between the provisions on foreign affairs in the Constitutional Treaty...and those in the Lisbon Treaty Foreign affairs committee class="" href="/1/hi/world/europe/6928737.stm">What are the arguments? The Commons foreign affairs committee has criticised the way the government has represented the foreign policy aspects of the treaty.
"I see it as a very straightforward issue of trust in politics. And one of the ways of restoring trust in politics is to hold that referendum," said Mr Hague.
The Lib Dems do not want a referendum on the treaty - they argue the debate should be about Britain's membership of the EU instead.
Party leader Nick Clegg said: "The government has become terrified of making the case for Europe, whilst the Tories are using the debate over a treaty as an excuse to retreat into old-school euroscepticism."
Prime Minister Gordon Brown signed the treaty, as did other EU leaders, in December. But it has to be ratified by all EU parliaments before coming into force.
The Commons Foreign Affairs Committee has criticised the way the government has represented the foreign policy aspects of the treaty.
Its report, entitled Foreign Policy Aspects Of The Treaty Of Lisbon, claims there are only two small differences in the area of foreign policy between the treaty and the abandoned constitution.Its report, entitled Foreign Policy Aspects Of The Treaty Of Lisbon, claims there are only two small differences in the area of foreign policy between the treaty and the abandoned constitution.
These were the addition of two non legally binding declarations proposed by the UK and the change of the title Minister for Foreign Affairs to High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy. These were the addition of two non-legally binding declarations proposed by the UK and the change of the title minister for foreign affairs to high representative for foreign affairs and security policy.
"We conclude that there is no material difference between the provisions on foreign affairs in the Constitutional Treaty which the government made subject to approval in a referendum and those in the Lisbon Treaty on which a referendum is being denied," the report said. But it welcomed the creation of such new roles, which it said were "major innovations in the EU's foreign policy-making machinery" which could give the EU a "more coherent development and implementation of external policy".
'Innovations'
It also accused the government of seeking to downplay the significance of new institutions, such as the creation of a new EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security.
This was "unlikely to be beneficial to the UK's position in Europe", it said, and called on ministers to acknowledge their true significance in public.
The report welcomed the creation of such new roles, which it said were "major innovations in the EU's foreign policy-making machinery" which could give the EU a "more coherent development and implementation of external policy".
But Mike Gapes, the committee's chairman, said MPs felt Parliament needed to have more say in the treaty's development.
"Parliament has not been sufficiently involved in the negotiation and the drafting of these proposals last year," he told the BBC.
"We believe that over the next few weeks [in] the Parliamentary debate we have, we need to press for greater Parliamentary accountability over the implementation and the carrying out of this treaty in practice in the coming years, if it is adopted."
UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage said there was now "no reason for the government to duck out of their pledge" to hold a referendum.