Joanna Blythman webchat – as it happened

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/live/2015/feb/21/food-joanna-blythman-webchat

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2.04pm GMT14:04

That's all folks…

Thanks for the chat everyone. Swallow This definitely gets people thinking. I'm signing off now …...

Thank you all for leaving your questions

2.02pm GMT14:02

MaggieNiDe says

Many products contain MSG naturally (eg Parmesan), many products are treated one way or another (such as blue cheese), yet none of these is deemed disgusting. I personally do not think product development, using for example modified starches or gelatine, is to be considered a cheat for the consumer. I think the modern consumer should be aware that products he purchases are processed one way or another, but that doesn’t mean that they are bad for them. Are you now omitting plenty of foods yourself?

I eat everything, but avoid processed foods and cook

1.59pm GMT13:59

JockDai says

For certain products is ‘frozen’ actually better? I am more wary of ‘fresh’ food having higher chemicals to keep it that way, and I was wondering whether it is better as a result? Or are they equally as bad? I try to eat ‘paleo’ but I struggle sometimes with the availability of non processed food and also the quality of fresh meats in the supermarkets. My local butcher is better, but I don’t always have the opportunity to get there.

I certainly prefer frozen to chilled for many products. Fewer additives, apart from anything else. I freeze fresh meat quite a lot, I'd rather have frozen than gas-flushed (modified air) 'fresh'.

1.57pm GMT13:57

missnomers says

I know there is heated debate about whether people should take vitamin and mineral supplements, but is there cause for concern about how the vitamins and minerals for supplements are created?

I haven't studied supplements, but my hunch would be that the more you can get vitamins/minerals etc from whole food, the better e.g. oily fish, not oil capsules if poss. I do take a vitamin D supplement though.

1.54pm GMT13:54

Paganview says

Someone I know used to work in a cheese factory, and they said ‘accelerators’ were used to make a mature cheddar in just a couple of weeks. Are companies legally entitled to call something mature if it’s made in this way?

I suspect these were enzymes. And no, because they are not deemed to be present in the finished food, they are classed as processing aids and don't need to be labelled. Raising acid level can also give a fake mature flavour

1.51pm GMT13:51

leachy81 says

Do you have any tips for those of us wanting to avoid all processed foods, but have a sweet tooth? Are there any brands you have found to be more ‘trustworthy’ than others with their ingredients and processes?

It's not up to me to promote certain brands I'm afraid. On the sweet point, I'd say just try to reduce the amount of sweet-tasting food you eat. If you make your own, you can even reduce the sugar in the recipe a bit. I have been trying to curb my sweet tooth purely by reducing the sugar level, and now things I thought I liked before taste much to sweet to me.

Updated at 1.55pm GMT

1.50pm GMT13:50

RichXS says

I’m seeing loads of supermarket meat that has a best before date closely followed by ‘use within one day of opening’. What’s going on here?

The pack has been filled with modified air to keep the meat looking red. Once opened, it will quickly discolour, but not in the time honoured way that a trad butcher would do it. Modified air stops meat drying naturally, so it weighs heavier, and you can charge more for it. Trad aged meat loses moisture, gains flavour/tenderness

Updated at 1.55pm GMT

1.49pm GMT13:49

BlueCityWolf says

What has always troubled me are the phrases “Now with extra XXX” and “New and improved recipe”. Is there a law requirement that states how much more of an ingredient there has to be before they can say this, or can they simply add 0.0001% and say it? And ‘new and improved’ according to whom? If it’s the maker, then that is surely subjective, yes?

This reminds me of a product mentioned in my book that can be used to reduce the amount of butter but still permit an 'all butter' label. And yes, there's so much meaningless marketing twaddle on labels passing for 'informing the consumer' e.g. 'natural', 'free-from', ticks list etc

Updated at 1.55pm GMT

1.48pm GMT13:48

Dalimoustache says

I have heard stories of workers in crisp factories coming home smelling of cheese and onion. Which was the smelliest place you visited?

A factory that made lasagne. The smell of the 'white' sauce reminded me of regurgitated baby milk. The abattoir was positively pleasant by comparison.

1.46pm GMT13:46

Catherine Campbell says

I have noticed that egg yolks are changing colour and becoming a deeper shade of yellow/orange. I suspect that colouring is put into the food of chickens to make the yolk look a deeper colour, hence ‘healthier’ and more like a home-reared egg. Could this be true?

Yes indeed. This has been going on for decades. Adding colourings to cereal-based poultry feed to make the yolks look brighter. Hens that feed on grassy pastures don't need it. The yolks of their eggs are lovely and yellow from their pasture diet.

Updated at 1.55pm GMT

1.45pm GMT13:45

eviltokoloshe says

“In store jam filling of raspberry puree, pectin, citric acid and calcium chloride.” The first three are standard jam ingredients, and calcium chloride is a replacement for sodium chloride (ie salt), which reduces the sodium content, and reduces potential blood pressure issues. What is your issue with this?

Call me old fashioned, but to me, jam has just 2 ingredients: fruit and sugar.

1.39pm GMT13:39

openroad says

Good to know someone can expose the food industry’s talent for not telling the consumer what is really in their products. It’s all too easy to believe what it says on the label. Having worked in the food industry, I know that the consumer is viewed with contempt.

Good to hear from you. I was shocked by the arrogant, patronising attitudes in the processed food industry to consumers/the public. Clean label strategy is largely about palming us off with a reassuring fairy tale. Poor show

1.36pm GMT13:36

rzatkinson says

The issues raised in your book cause me a lot of concern because I just want to eat food. I wondered what your advice is for people with limited budgets? I already cook from scratch, and use mainly vegetables, but how can I avoid hidden ingredients and processes in oil, meat etc ? I can’t afford health food shop ingredients.

I think my book will help you. You are already doing the best thing- buying whole, unprocessed food and cooking from scratch. Other than that, good to avoid any product with an ingredient/additive you wouldn't use at home. Beware of 'extracts' and 'concentrates'- often colourings and flavouring by another name

1.34pm GMT13:34

Baffler says

Why are Spanish ‘producers’ of saffron allowed to sell non Spanish saffron (mostly in fact Iranian saffron when it is not fake saffron) and package it as ‘produce of Spain’ without any reference to country of origin?

Also, it may interest you that I have a friend in the processed food industry in Italy who says she has to create recipes for processed foods which have a shelf life of 40 days. She says regulation in the UK is far healthier than in Italy.

Your thoughts?

1. Product of/produce of etc has always been an EU loophole. Saffron scams have been operating for decades.2. Thanks for the 40 day shelf life fact. It doesn't surprise me that food is that old. One chapter in my book deals with this. But what really gets me is that this old food is still sold as 'fresh' e.g. ready meal made with year-old frozen Brazilian chicken in 'fresh' food chiller cabinet

1.30pm GMT13:30

cauliflower says

You list things you found during your investigation. I’m pretty sure I knew about all of them in the 1970s, so perhaps I’m missing something. What do you think has changed in the last 40-50 years?

Your dad's experience is typical I think. Anyone I meet who works in a food processing factory never fancies eating what comes out of it. On your question, food processing has become much more hi-tech and sophisticated. Which means there's so much more to discover about it. Unfortunately, consumers/citizens are kept at the factory door. I hope you find the book illuminating.

1.28pm GMT13:28

randomeater has posted a lengthy question, which you can read in full here

You are going to be attacked mercilessly by the food industry, and their arguments are usually the same (I already see some comments using some). I think you probably are aware of most, but may I ask you to check my list and see whether any “classic argument” is missing?

Thanks for your thoughtful list :) I look forward to a productive dialogue with food industry. I hope it can be engaged and mature enough not to just shoot the messenger and ignore these important issues

1.20pm GMT13:20

Judith Ellen Cordie says

Firstly, thank you for going undercover on behalf of the human race. My question is, how much of what I have read is being used in the food manufacture of Australia?

The 'food ingredients' industry, which is closely aligned to the chemical industry, is very global. I'm not an expert on Australia, but I'd guess that much/most of the material in Swallow This is relevant to Australians who want to know more about how their food is produced.

1.18pm GMT13:18

Ghill De Rozario says

I would like to know what your views are on organic produce and GMOs. You seem to know the medical concerns regarding many additives. Do you also follow the science which states that GMOs are safe and that organic produce is not any better than non-organic produce? Or has your research uncovered new information on these issues?

The so-called 'scientific consensus' on GM foods doesn't exist. Recently 300 distinguished scientists signed a statement urging the precautionary principle and warning of risks. Why listen to some scientists, not others?

1.15pm GMT13:15

Dave55 says

Can you tell me what you think is wrong with adding enzymes to bread or fruit juice (and wine of course) to make it look and taste nicer, or in the case of juice, to increase yields and reduce waste? Why is this any different to adding yeast to bread to make it rise? And are you somehow under the impression that fruit juice doesn’t already contain dozens of enzymes naturally present? Does the word “enzyme” in fact scare you?

On your enzyme point: Many enzyme-modified ingredients are there to trick consumers e.g. to make fruit drinks look as if they have more juice than they do by making them look cloudy e.g. giving young cheese a "mature' flavour. Also bear in mind that enzymes have allergenic potential. Respiratory problems from handling enzymes is a documented occupational hazard of bakery workers.

Updated at 1.55pm GMT

1.13pm GMT13:13

ID3112310 has posted a lengthy question, which you can read in full here.superfringe replied:

It amazes me how people are so quick to dismiss those with years of training, experience and expertise on the grounds of vested interests, yet lap up the comments of someone who as far as I can tell has no food or science qualifications and allegedly no vested interests.. oh wait she is selling a book.

Are you really suggesting that NO-ONE other than a scientist has the right to discuss how processed food is made? Do you really think that civil society can leave our food supply to food technologists/engineers operating behind closed doors? The day food processors open their factories and formulae to interested citizens, and stop hiding behind the creed of commercial secrecy, I’ll take a back seat. Until then, I’m investigating the processed food industry in the public interest.

1.08pm GMT13:08

pnola says

Thanks for the fascinating article, which seems to have attracted more than its fair share of hostile comment from people obviously connected with the additives industry.My question is this: I moved to the States from the UK, and I find that bread and milk last twice as long here. Is this because they contain more preservatives, or have they been irradiated?

My impression (only impression) is that food in US is even more processed/altered/modified and has more additives/controversial ingredients than in EU. For example, GM ingredients don't have to be labelled in US. In EU they do.I am often really shocked by the controversial ingredients/additives in products imported from US to EU. Hard to avoid high fructose corn syrup, for instance.

Updated at 1.56pm GMT

1.06pm GMT13:06

Meta101 says

Hi Joanna

Do you think there is a problem in the food/health/lifestyle media of exaggerating the results of studies? Taking something that has shown a correlation and then attributing cause and effect?

You say: “’Diet’ sweeteners that increase, not decrease, your weight”

And you say: “Several large-scale studies have found a correlation between artificial sweetener consumption and weight gain.”

It’s important to distinguish between one-off studies that might throw up ‘rogue’ findings, and more rigorous studies, in particular gold standard reviews. In the case of diet sweeteners, there’s now a body of evidence suggesting that they don’t help weight loss, and may cause other problems e.g. T2 Diabetes. I always look for a raft of science literature before leaping to any conclusion. Studies I refer to appear in End Notes in Swallow This

1.05pm GMT13:05

SenseAboutScience says

We’d like to ask about the word ‘natural’ on food packaging. Does it have any legal/regualtory definition?

This is a question for philosophers :) Natural is a very debased term. Food processors/supermarkets use it as a heuristic “Good for me and my family”. I use it to refer to whole, unprocessed food, as opposed to processed convenience food.

1.03pm GMT13:03

theremaybehopeyet says

Hi Joanna.

Is food more than simply a collection of chemicals and substances consumed by a person?

Should eating be considered a holistic experience where the best ingredients that can be obtained are used to create food rich in both nutrients and a love of family and friends that consume not just a substance, but something much greater and in doing so the benefit to the body is not simply physical but psychological and emotional?

If not then why is food not reduced to a simple pill that provides all these unnatural nutrients since this would allow the “food industry” to feed the world, which they proclaim as one of their major reasons why these chemical concoctions are necessary?

I agree with you. The main reason I wrote this book was because I think that in nutritional and taste terms, processed food is a sorry apology for real food. Sharing home cooked food with people we love/like is one of lives greatest pleasures. Factory food industry tries to tell we don’t have the time to cook. That gives it carte blanche to sell us low-grade, compromised, nutritionally impoverished products in the name of saving us time/money.

1.02pm GMT13:02

Hi everyone, I'm here

1.00pm GMT13:00

And we’re now live: Joanna Blythman will be answering your questions until 2pm. Leave yours in the comments field below…

8.00am GMT08:00

Join Joanna Blythman for a live webchat: 1pm on 26 February

You might find it all too easy to resist eating obviously processed foods – turkey drummers, ready meals, fruit “drink” or pappy mass-made white bread. Perhaps you check labels for E numbers and strange-sounding ingredients. And yet you will still find it hard to avoid the 6,000 food additives, such as flavourings, glazing agents, improvers, bleaching agents, or the hi-tech ingredients, such as permeates, polyols and cyclodextrins, that are routinely employed behind the scenes of contemporary food manufacture.

For my book, Swallow This, I gained unprecedented access to the world of modern food processing, an industry that takes advantage of the creed of commercial confidentiality to keep us in the dark about what we’re really eating. Even to me, a food journalist with more than 25 years of investigations under my belt, it was a real eye-opener. You can read an extract here.

What I discovered includes:

Do you have any questions for me? I will be online from 1pm (GMT) on Thursday 26 February to answer them. Please leave them in the comments box below.