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Harman: Labour will not vote against welfare bill and limiting child tax credits Anger after Harriet Harman says Labour will not vote against welfare bill
(about 4 hours later)
Labour will not be voting against the government’s welfare bill and the limiting of child tax credits to two children, Harriet Harman has confirmed. Labour will not vote against the government’s welfare bill and should not oppose limiting child tax credits to two children, the party’s interim leader, Harriet Harman, has said, provoking a storm of criticism including from some its leadership candidates.
The interim Labour leader said the party could not tell the public they were wrong after two general election defeats in a row. She said Labour will oppose the cuts in tax credits for those in work and plans to redefine child poverty announced by the chancellor, George Osborne, in his summer budget last week. She said Labour should also not oppose certain conditions in the planned cap on household welfare benefits.
In what may come to be seen as a watershed interview on the BBC Sunday Politics show, Harman seemed intent on shaking the party out of what she fears is a reversion to its comfort zone after election defeat. “We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong at the election,” she said, adding: “We have got a to wake up … The party had realise that this is not a blip and work out why.” The party simply could not tell the public they were wrong after two general election defeats in a row, she said, adding it had been defeated because it had not been trusted on the economy or benefits.
Her interview came after reports that she had clashed this week with the Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham over welfare during a shadow cabinet meeting, telling him he had to recognise that Labour had lost the election. In what was clearly designed as a watershed interview on the BBC Sunday Politics show, Harman seemed intent on shaking the party out of what she fears is a reversion to its comfort zone after election defeat. “We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong at the election,” she said, adding: “We’ve got to wake up and recognise that this was not a blip, we’ve had a serious defeat and we must listen to why.”
Her remarks came as the shadow education secretary, Tristam Hunt, warned the party it was becoming an irrelevance at a frightening speed. “Political parties like nations rise and fall. We have got no god-given right to exist,” he said. Labour had to face some hard truths, and its leadership candidates bringing forward micro-policies for a 2020 manifesto was not good enough, he said.
Harman’s comments came after reports that she had clashed this week with the Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham over welfare during a shadow cabinet meeting.
Related: Cuts to tax credits in budget hit women twice as hard as men, says LabourRelated: Cuts to tax credits in budget hit women twice as hard as men, says Labour
Burnham disagreed with her analysis in a dispute that is likely to play into the increasingly fraught Labour leadership contest. In her BBC interview she repeatedly warned party members “not to vote for someone who you think you like and who makes you comfortable but think who will be able to reach out to the public and listen to the public and give them confidence. The point is not to have someone that we particularly like and feel comfortable with. The point is to have someone who can command the confidence of the country.”
Harman repeatedly warned party members “not to vote for someone think who you like and who makes you comfortable but think who will be able to reach out to the public and listen to the public and give them confidence. The point is not to have someone that we particlarly like and feel comfortable with. The point is to have someone who can command the confidence of the country. That is what they should have in their mind. There is no point doing choice in a disappointed rage.” Harman said there was no point the party making its choice in a disappointed rage.
Her remarks can be interpreted many ways but are hardly likely to be seen as endorsement of Jeremy Corbyn, the leftwinger who is doing better than many senior party figures expected in the Labour leadership campaign. Her remarks can be interpreted in various ways but are hardly likely to be seen as endorsement of Jeremy Corbyn, the leftwinger who is doing better than many senior party figures expected in the leadership campaign.
Corbyn said: “If it is proposed that Labour MPs are being asked to vote for the government’s plans to cut benefits to families, I am not willing to vote for policies that will push more children into poverty. Families are suffering enough. We shouldn’t play the government’s political games when the welfare of children is at stake.” Labour sources said the party would urge the government to make exemptions for people with disabilities and carers in setting the welfare cap and urge the Conservatives not to go ahead with cuts in the value of employment support allowance. The key vote on withdrawing after 2017 tax credits for families who have a third child will not take place until the autumn, by which time Harman will not be leader.
A Labour spokeswoman said the party would vote against the budget on Tuesday in opposition to the overall cuts to tax credits, but would abstain on the welfare bill and would look for some changes such as dropping the proposed reduction in the employment support allowance to the level of jobseeker’s allowance. In response to Harman’s remarks, Corbyn said: “If it is proposed that Labour MPs are being asked to vote for the government’s plans to cut benefits to families, I am not willing to vote for policies that will push more children into poverty. Families are suffering enough. We shouldn’t play the government’s political games when the welfare of children is at stake.”
The Burnham camp said: “Andy opposes cuts to child tax credits. These are paid to people who are doing the right thing and working hard to make ends meet. These tax credit changes are regressive, they are wrong, they hit families in work and Andy opposes them.”
Yvette Cooper’s team said: “Yvette has made clear from the start that she does not believe the best way to reduce the deficit is to hit working families, reduce work incentives and push more children into poverty. She has said that the Tory plans for cutting tax credits and abandoning the child poverty target do both and Labour should strongly oppose them.”
An aide to Harman said the interim leader was ready to take some heat over the issue, including possibly at a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday night but that she felt she had a responsibility to send some messages to the public.An aide to Harman said the interim leader was ready to take some heat over the issue, including possibly at a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday night but that she felt she had a responsibility to send some messages to the public.
“How the party reacts in the early days of opposition can be very formative to how people the party as it discovered in 2010. None thinks she is on the right of the party but she is reflecting very deeply on what she has heard right across the country about why the party has lost twice.
“She has been on the front bench for 20 years she will no longer be leader on 13 September.”
Tristam Hunt, the shadow education secretary, also tried to shake the party up. He warned on Sunday that the party had no god given right to exist and that it was facing such a dramatic situation that everything should be on the table, including the possibility of an English Labour party.
Harman said it was not necessary for the party to worry about whether the Conservatives were parking their tanks on Labour’s lawns, but instead worry about whether the public thought it was listening to what they thought.
She said the public did not vote for the Tories because they particularly loved the party but because they did not trust Labour on the economy and on benefits.
“We have to listen and respond to that, and that is why we are going to be voting against the welfare bill we are not going to be voting against the household welfare cap and we are going to be understanding the point about three or more children,” she added.
She said she had heard working families “say so often we have got one child, we would really like another but we cannot just afford it because the child care is too expensive”.
Related: Budget 2015: 25 key points at a glanceRelated: Budget 2015: 25 key points at a glance
She argued these families were working hard and they think it was unfair that others could have the bigger families they would love to have if they were in a position to do that. “How the party reacts in the early days of opposition can be very formative to how people the party is viewed as it discovered in 2010. None thinks she is on the right of the party but she is reflecting very deeply on what she has heard right across the country about why the party has lost twice,” said the aide.
“We have to listen to that. We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong we are going to carry on saying what we said before the election. Harman said the public did not vote for the Tories because they particularly loved the party but because they did not trust Labour on the economy and on benefits. “We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong we are going to carry on saying what we said before the election.
“The temptation is always to oppose everything. That does not make sense. We have got to wake up and recognise this is not a blip, and we have got to listen to why. No one is going to listen to us if they think we are not to listening to them.”“The temptation is always to oppose everything. That does not make sense. We have got to wake up and recognise this is not a blip, and we have got to listen to why. No one is going to listen to us if they think we are not to listening to them.”
Harman defended her right to take these decisions on how to vote on welfare and the budget, arguing: “I am the leader of the opposition and there will be votes on Budget and the welfare bill. I am setting out the Labour party position.”
She added it was wrong to think that people had voted differently for different reasons against Labour, saying her analysis was that they were saying the same thing albeit in different accents all over the UK. “That they thought Labour was a risk and they were not prepared to take that risk,” she said. “One of the saddest things to me is that some of [our supporters] thought, ‘Phew it was a bit of a relief that Labour did not get elected.’”She added it was wrong to think that people had voted differently for different reasons against Labour, saying her analysis was that they were saying the same thing albeit in different accents all over the UK. “That they thought Labour was a risk and they were not prepared to take that risk,” she said. “One of the saddest things to me is that some of [our supporters] thought, ‘Phew it was a bit of a relief that Labour did not get elected.’”
Insisting Labour must oppose government policy where it is right to do so, Harman said changes to tax credits had left 3 million working families £1,000 worse off and where the government rhetoric does not match the reality Labour will say that. She said she was on the side of the people going to work saying they were the wealth creators.