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What spawned Russia's 'troll army'? Experts on the red web answer your questions What spawned Russia's 'troll army'? Experts on the red web answer your questions
(35 minutes later)
1.13pm BST13:13
What is the ‘troll army’ trying to achieve?
I only became aware of the infestation of 'Putin bots' on this newspaper early last year. At first the virulence and volume of toxic and incoherent comments was shocking, mostly on Russia themed articles a from commenters with 'western sounding names' who professed a decidedly un-western adoration for Putin and contempt for their 'own' western country. it is no longer shocking just annoying. Most are so toxic and transparent (their English is poor and their world view untethered from reality) that they degrade most neutrals' view of Russia, not improve it. So my question: Aside from trying to pollute debate and undermine the clarity and legitimacy of the stories being reported, what is their objective? What are they trying to achieve and who are they targeting?
There is a widespread feeling of grievance against the US, of anti-Americanism, and the main goal is to channel this feeling in favour of the Russian authorities. To present Putin as the only global alternative brave enough to challenge US supremacy. Discussion of US foreign policy mistakes, like the War in Iraq for example, is distorted in a way to benefit the Kremlin.
In short, the goal is to promote Putin’s personal image among Western audiences already critical of the US government and its allies.
Updated at 1.13pm BST
1.09pm BST13:09
In the context of history
How would you describe the differences between "opinion-building mechanisms" during the Cold War, the Crazy 90s and contemporary Russia?
In the Soviet Union, a totalitarian state, it was a one-way stream of propaganda, there was no debate in the society, no alternative view allowed in the media – apart from samizdat, which was limited to few hundred people.
The main newspaper was called Pravda (Truth). There was no doubt, only truth.
In the 1990s it was a clash of different opinions, between the opposition and the government, between different oligarchs, even between different security services. Now, we end up with all major media, first of all, TV, controlled by the state and involved in propaganda.
Updated at 1.13pm BST
1.02pm BST13:02
Maeve Shearlaw
The Q&A is about to start. Please continue to leave your questions in the comments and Andrei and Irina will do their best to answer as many as possible in the next hour. We will also be feeding in questions from Twitter @GuardianNewEast and email maeve.shearlaw@theguardian.com
12.37pm BST12:3712.37pm BST12:37
Trolls were the solution for a very particular problem: online critics of the KremlinTrolls were the solution for a very particular problem: online critics of the Kremlin
Trolls were the solution for a very particular problem the Kremlin faced in the mid-2000s: an internet dominated by critics.Trolls were the solution for a very particular problem the Kremlin faced in the mid-2000s: an internet dominated by critics.
By 2005, more and more Russian journalists were losing their jobs, squeezed from TV channels and the press as part of Putin’s offensive against independent media.By 2005, more and more Russian journalists were losing their jobs, squeezed from TV channels and the press as part of Putin’s offensive against independent media.
For many of these journalists, the internet was the only place to express their opinions, and many reporters turned to writing columns on blogging platforms such as LiveJournal.com.For many of these journalists, the internet was the only place to express their opinions, and many reporters turned to writing columns on blogging platforms such as LiveJournal.com.
A phenomenon was born: highly opinionated, sometimes brilliantly written journalism that was highly critical of the Kremlin, spurring the government to find new methods to drown them out.A phenomenon was born: highly opinionated, sometimes brilliantly written journalism that was highly critical of the Kremlin, spurring the government to find new methods to drown them out.
Trolling became the answer, and the pro-Kremlin youth movements proved their worth. Many trolls were recruited from among their ranks, some were paid, others inspired and encouraged by government propaganda.Trolling became the answer, and the pro-Kremlin youth movements proved their worth. Many trolls were recruited from among their ranks, some were paid, others inspired and encouraged by government propaganda.
Related: Hacked emails allege Russian youth group Nashi paying bloggersRelated: Hacked emails allege Russian youth group Nashi paying bloggers
Users can post anonymous posts on LiveJournal, an option exploited by the ‘trolls’, who often launched personal attacks on writers, provoking a fierce response.Users can post anonymous posts on LiveJournal, an option exploited by the ‘trolls’, who often launched personal attacks on writers, provoking a fierce response.
Then came the Moscow protests of 2011, and it was immediately clear that the trolls had largely failed in their objective: to silence the opposition and liberal opinion leaders.Then came the Moscow protests of 2011, and it was immediately clear that the trolls had largely failed in their objective: to silence the opposition and liberal opinion leaders.
Then came Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 – a strategic win for the Kremlin in the eastern Ukraine crisis – and hundreds of trolls were mobilised to defend the government both at home and abroad .Then came Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 – a strategic win for the Kremlin in the eastern Ukraine crisis – and hundreds of trolls were mobilised to defend the government both at home and abroad .
Trolls began to appear in the comments sections of traditional news outlets and on social media in the UK and the US. French and Italian journalists told us that they were attacked too.Trolls began to appear in the comments sections of traditional news outlets and on social media in the UK and the US. French and Italian journalists told us that they were attacked too.
The objective now was to enforce a Russian-dominated narrative of the Ukraine conflict worldwide. This may have failed in the US and the UK, but in Ukraine and eastern Europe, it was a different story.The objective now was to enforce a Russian-dominated narrative of the Ukraine conflict worldwide. This may have failed in the US and the UK, but in Ukraine and eastern Europe, it was a different story.
Faked reports and photos from eastern Ukraine flooded the internet. Trolls were paid to claim the violence was caused by Ukrainian “fascists”, borrowing images from war films to illustrate their argument.Faked reports and photos from eastern Ukraine flooded the internet. Trolls were paid to claim the violence was caused by Ukrainian “fascists”, borrowing images from war films to illustrate their argument.
Although many of these claims were later proved false, they struck a nerve.Although many of these claims were later proved false, they struck a nerve.
The images appealed to the historical memory of the Soviet Union – where an estimated 30 million lives were lost in the second world war – and carried a highly emotional message to the internet audience in eastern Europe: the fascists were coming again.The images appealed to the historical memory of the Soviet Union – where an estimated 30 million lives were lost in the second world war – and carried a highly emotional message to the internet audience in eastern Europe: the fascists were coming again.
Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, The Red Web authorsAndrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, The Red Web authors
8.07am BST08:078.07am BST08:07
'That troll factories exist was not a surprise to most Moscow correspondents''That troll factories exist was not a surprise to most Moscow correspondents'
Shaun WalkerShaun Walker
The discovery that Russian “troll factories” exist was not a surprise to most Moscow correspondents. For some time we had noticed the long list of comments under almost everything we wrote, often in semi-coherent English claiming to be from people with traditional British names.The discovery that Russian “troll factories” exist was not a surprise to most Moscow correspondents. For some time we had noticed the long list of comments under almost everything we wrote, often in semi-coherent English claiming to be from people with traditional British names.
This is not to say that all the angry comments below the line are from paid trolls, far from it. Over the past two years, the Ukraine crisis and Russia more generally has become one of those polarised issues, such as Israel/Palestine.This is not to say that all the angry comments below the line are from paid trolls, far from it. Over the past two years, the Ukraine crisis and Russia more generally has become one of those polarised issues, such as Israel/Palestine.
One story can simultaneously be denounced as disgusting Russophobic slander ordered up by the CIA and pro-Putin filth written by a Kremlin shill. Both sides never tire of comparing the other to the Nazis. Angry “pro-Russian” feedback is significantly higher than the level of angry “pro-Ukrainian” feedback, but both can be equally baffling.One story can simultaneously be denounced as disgusting Russophobic slander ordered up by the CIA and pro-Putin filth written by a Kremlin shill. Both sides never tire of comparing the other to the Nazis. Angry “pro-Russian” feedback is significantly higher than the level of angry “pro-Ukrainian” feedback, but both can be equally baffling.
Related: Salutin' Putin: inside a Russian troll houseRelated: Salutin' Putin: inside a Russian troll house
Good journalism points out problems, abuses and painful moments, and this will always be controversial. But due to a lack of strong, independent media in Russia, the immediate assumption is that coverage of difficult issues in Russia in the Guardian, for example, is part of a nefarious geo-political conspiracy.Good journalism points out problems, abuses and painful moments, and this will always be controversial. But due to a lack of strong, independent media in Russia, the immediate assumption is that coverage of difficult issues in Russia in the Guardian, for example, is part of a nefarious geo-political conspiracy.
The worst part about trolling is it makes it hard to be open to genuine criticism. Journalists’ articles are by definition a selective compilation of relevant facts and opinions; and there’s almost always room for constructive feedback. But when every genuine engagement is buried between 100 semi-literate insults from paid trolls or partisan readers selectively processing information, the easiest thing to do is ignore it , which is a shame.The worst part about trolling is it makes it hard to be open to genuine criticism. Journalists’ articles are by definition a selective compilation of relevant facts and opinions; and there’s almost always room for constructive feedback. But when every genuine engagement is buried between 100 semi-literate insults from paid trolls or partisan readers selectively processing information, the easiest thing to do is ignore it , which is a shame.
Shaun Walker, Moscow correspondent, the GuardianShaun Walker, Moscow correspondent, the Guardian
8.06am BST08:068.06am BST08:06
'It’s hard to know who to trust and what is real''It’s hard to know who to trust and what is real'
Marc BurrowsMarc Burrows
Russian propaganda posted in the comment section is a constant issue for our team: steering threads off topic, undermining genuine conversation and preventing regular readers from enjoying a focused and informed discussion.Russian propaganda posted in the comment section is a constant issue for our team: steering threads off topic, undermining genuine conversation and preventing regular readers from enjoying a focused and informed discussion.
We know it happens, but stamping down on it is difficult. Unlike other coordinated trolling and spam we see on the site, which is relatively easy to spot, the Russian contingent is fairly sophisticated.They mask IP addresses, use false locations and create accounts that seem legitimate. We know to look for specific tropes in language but these change regularly, making the false posts tricky to weed out.We know it happens, but stamping down on it is difficult. Unlike other coordinated trolling and spam we see on the site, which is relatively easy to spot, the Russian contingent is fairly sophisticated.They mask IP addresses, use false locations and create accounts that seem legitimate. We know to look for specific tropes in language but these change regularly, making the false posts tricky to weed out.
The most difficult challenge is that the “trolls” aren’t the only voices expressing these opinions. The propaganda of Russian state media is very effective and many commenters legitimately seem to post the same comments as the teams of paid online commenters..The most difficult challenge is that the “trolls” aren’t the only voices expressing these opinions. The propaganda of Russian state media is very effective and many commenters legitimately seem to post the same comments as the teams of paid online commenters..
The most frustrating consequence of this is the atmosphere of distrust it fosters below the line. The most toxic conversations become bad parodies of a 70s cold war thriller, where everyone is a double agent. It’s hard to know who to trust and what is real – which, of course, is the point.The most frustrating consequence of this is the atmosphere of distrust it fosters below the line. The most toxic conversations become bad parodies of a 70s cold war thriller, where everyone is a double agent. It’s hard to know who to trust and what is real – which, of course, is the point.
Marc Burrows, the Guardian’s senior community moderatorMarc Burrows, the Guardian’s senior community moderator
8.03am BST08:038.03am BST08:03
'Venture below the line at your peril''Venture below the line at your peril'
Luke HardingLuke Harding
Like everyone writing regularly about Russia, I have found myself on the receiving end of some heavy trolling. Perhaps this is understandable. I spent four years in Russia as the Guardian’s Moscow correspondentwhere I reported on themes the Kremlin considers taboo: Putin’s wealth, top-level government corruption and Alexander Litvinenko, amongst other things.Like everyone writing regularly about Russia, I have found myself on the receiving end of some heavy trolling. Perhaps this is understandable. I spent four years in Russia as the Guardian’s Moscow correspondentwhere I reported on themes the Kremlin considers taboo: Putin’s wealth, top-level government corruption and Alexander Litvinenko, amongst other things.
In February 2011 the FSB put me on a blacklist and I was thrown out of the country.In February 2011 the FSB put me on a blacklist and I was thrown out of the country.
Even so, I’ve been taken aback by the remorseless and ingenious methods of paid Russian trolls.Even so, I’ve been taken aback by the remorseless and ingenious methods of paid Russian trolls.
In 2011, I noticed that someone had set up a fake twitter account in my name. I’m @lukeharding1968. My Twitter clone was @Iukeharding1968 – with an upper case “i” at the beginning instead – had taken my Twitter photograph and bio, tweeting Kremlin press releases at a furious rate.In 2011, I noticed that someone had set up a fake twitter account in my name. I’m @lukeharding1968. My Twitter clone was @Iukeharding1968 – with an upper case “i” at the beginning instead – had taken my Twitter photograph and bio, tweeting Kremlin press releases at a furious rate.
I contacted Twitter in San Francisco and they killed my clone. Then, like an army of zombies rising from the dead, I gained 21 more – each with my face – ranging from @lukeharding1960 upwards.I contacted Twitter in San Francisco and they killed my clone. Then, like an army of zombies rising from the dead, I gained 21 more – each with my face – ranging from @lukeharding1960 upwards.
Related: Game of trolls: the hip digi-kids helping Putin's fight for online supremacyRelated: Game of trolls: the hip digi-kids helping Putin's fight for online supremacy
Then there is “below the line”, a place you only venture at your peril. Last year, while reporting on the conflict in eastern Ukraine, my dispatches attracted over 2,000 reader comments a day.Then there is “below the line”, a place you only venture at your peril. Last year, while reporting on the conflict in eastern Ukraine, my dispatches attracted over 2,000 reader comments a day.
Of these, I would estimate 1,200 were vehemently pro-Putin and about 400 were personal abuse. The same pattern each time: I was a pathological Russophobe, a CIA spy or an MI6 operative. Sometimes all three.Of these, I would estimate 1,200 were vehemently pro-Putin and about 400 were personal abuse. The same pattern each time: I was a pathological Russophobe, a CIA spy or an MI6 operative. Sometimes all three.
I believe in different viewpoints, rational debate, evidence-led argument. What I find depressing about trolling is there is no point in engaging with your critics, since trolls are not real their opinions are fake.I believe in different viewpoints, rational debate, evidence-led argument. What I find depressing about trolling is there is no point in engaging with your critics, since trolls are not real their opinions are fake.
These opinions may be sincerely held, or the product of a daily briefing sheet either way, they originate with a state not an individual.These opinions may be sincerely held, or the product of a daily briefing sheet either way, they originate with a state not an individual.
Luke Harding, foreign correspondent, the GuardianLuke Harding, foreign correspondent, the Guardian
Updated at 11.25am BSTUpdated at 11.25am BST
4.39pm BST16:394.39pm BST16:39
The rise of Russia's 'troll army'The rise of Russia's 'troll army'
Maeve ShearlawMaeve Shearlaw
Reports on the workings of Russian ‘troll factories’ – formerly only on the radar of journalists critical of the regime – have become commonplace in recent months.Reports on the workings of Russian ‘troll factories’ – formerly only on the radar of journalists critical of the regime – have become commonplace in recent months.
Evidence has emerged suggesting companies deploy workforces to post pro-government comments over the internet. Western media outlets have reported a huge increase in the volume and viciousness of comments under articles about Russia, and activist Lyudmila Savchuk – once on the payroll of the The Agency for Internet Studies – recently took her former employer to court in an attempt to “prove that trolls exist”.Evidence has emerged suggesting companies deploy workforces to post pro-government comments over the internet. Western media outlets have reported a huge increase in the volume and viciousness of comments under articles about Russia, and activist Lyudmila Savchuk – once on the payroll of the The Agency for Internet Studies – recently took her former employer to court in an attempt to “prove that trolls exist”.
Testimonies from the Guardian’s Moscow correspondent, a former Moscow correspondent and the head of our moderation team paint a picture of what it’s like to be on the receiving end of abuse, which they all agree has intensified since the conflict in eastern Ukraine began.Testimonies from the Guardian’s Moscow correspondent, a former Moscow correspondent and the head of our moderation team paint a picture of what it’s like to be on the receiving end of abuse, which they all agree has intensified since the conflict in eastern Ukraine began.
Related: The Red Web by Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan review – Russia’s attack on internet freedomsRelated: The Red Web by Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan review – Russia’s attack on internet freedoms
Their experiences will put in to context for us by Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, two Russian journalists who have followed their government’s behaviour in the online space since the early days of digital media.Their experiences will put in to context for us by Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, two Russian journalists who have followed their government’s behaviour in the online space since the early days of digital media.
The pair have recently released the Red Web, a book that examines everything from Edward Snowden – who they say inadvertently helped Putin’s crackdown on internet freedoms – to the details about the spying tools the government use.The pair have recently released the Red Web, a book that examines everything from Edward Snowden – who they say inadvertently helped Putin’s crackdown on internet freedoms – to the details about the spying tools the government use.
Any questions?Any questions?
Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan will join us for a live Q&A today, Tuesday 8 September, between 1-2pm London (3pm-4pm Moscow) to answer your questions about trolls and the Russian internet.Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan will join us for a live Q&A today, Tuesday 8 September, between 1-2pm London (3pm-4pm Moscow) to answer your questions about trolls and the Russian internet.
Use the comment section below to post your questions, tweet them at @GuardianNewEast or email maeve.shearlaw@theguardian.comUse the comment section below to post your questions, tweet them at @GuardianNewEast or email maeve.shearlaw@theguardian.com
Updated at 4.41pm BSTUpdated at 4.41pm BST