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Republican debate: Trump benefit goes toe to toe with main event – live updates
Republican debate: Trump benefit goes toe to toe with main event – live updates
(35 minutes later)
12.23am GMT
12.58am GMT
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00:58
They’re back! The moderator says, ominously, “this is debate number one in what will be a long night here.” He sounds sort of tired already.
Jeb Lund
12.21am GMT
Some of the candidates in the kid’s table debate are clearly touchy about being ignored. Jeb Lund thinks they need to get over it.
00:21
The undercard debate should be renamed the H Ross Perot Memorial Can I Finish? Can I Finish? Can I Finish? Debate. I think at least one quarter of all comments addressed to the moderators and America so far have been about the candidates’ inability to deliver comments to America.
First commercial break. Who’s winning? Any Gilmore takers? Let us know in the comments!
Now, that’s actually a somewhat fair complaint from someone like Rick Santorum, who has been written off by the media as a failure at the expense of Donald Trump, who is inevitably entertaining. But it’s pretty rich coming from Jim Gilmore, who I’m willing to believe has hosted only one campaign event, which was seeing for how long he could eat the unlimited appetizers at TGI Fridays. (The potato skins.)
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Gilmore, who is running for president and is in this debate, says he would not close the US prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Then he rattles off resume highlights, for the few in the audience for whom he may not be a household name. Let’s check in with Google trends...
Mona Chalabi
Google hasn’t published info yet on how many people are searching “Jim Gilmore,” but it appears from the blue spike in the chart below that there was robust search interest when his participation tonight was announced.
On abortion, these Republican candidates are largely trying to speak to the estimated 44% of Americans who describe themselves as “pro-life” according to Gallup’s data.
Realtime data from the #GOPDebate https://t.co/jDhLsPt7zV pic.twitter.com/pg5ReuMqgH
For the past 15 years, though the percentages have wobbled, the overall picture remains the same: America is deeply divided on the issue.
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00:54
Huckabee is asked whether it’s foolish to be open to working with Russia in Syria, as the former governor has proposed.
Final commercial break in the undercard. Last chance: Who, if not Gilmore, is winning the undercard ?
“I don’t trust [Putin],” Huckabee says, but if they’re confronting the enemy in the Middle East, let them.
12.53am GMT
Huckabee compares Isis to cancer:
00:53
And with any kind of cancer, you don’t contain it, you eradicate.
Tom McCarthy
12.16am GMT
Santorum says Obama is the “most divisive president” in his lifetime. “He personally attacks people... and then he tears them down,” Santorum says.
00:16
Santorum says that when he was in Washington he passed “a whole laundry list of things... because I was able to be respectful in disagreements.”
Fiorina’s asked whether Obama is right to say that Isis does not pose an existential threat to the United States.
12.51am GMT
“News flash president Obama. New flash, Mrs Clinton,” she says. “Climate change is not our most pressing national security threat.”
00:51
Hearty applause.
Tom McCarthy
Then Fiorina goes hard on Benghazi. Ding ding, time.
Huckabee is asked about Democrats who identify as socialist. “Guess you could say they’re feeling the Bern!” says Hemmer, the moderator.
12.14am GMT
He is rightly and justly booed.
00:14
“I honestly don’t understand how anybody with an IQ above plant life would think we’d be better off if we let the government have all the property...” Huckabee says.
Santorum takes a question about stopping terror attacks around the world.
I’m not feelin’ the Bern, Bill.
He says the president needs to get real in confronting “Islamic” terrorism. Then he explains that Isis has “established a caliphate.” Then he explains that a caliph rules a caliphate like a king rules a kingdom.
12.51am GMT
The answer is we must take their land and make them illegitimate in the eyes of the Muslim world.
00:51
He calls for boots on the ground to do so.
Against all odds, presidential candidate Jim Gilmore is trending nationwide on Twitter.
12.14am GMT
12.49am GMT
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00:49
Ben Jacobs
Jeb Lund
While the undercard debate is underway, just a mile and a half away, much of the American media is piling into a room adjacent to a college classical music venue.
This election has been turned on its head by populists. Jeb Lund takes a look at which candidates are best at talking to the people.
Donald Trump is boycotting the main event in order to hold his own rally at the Sheslow Auditorium on the campus of Drake University. The event is supposed to be a benefit for veterans, though the Trump campaign has yet to make clear how the money is being raised and which veterans organizations are benefiting.
Santorum is a good populist. Apart from Trump’s defense of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, he and Huckabee are the strongest on this issue. He really genuinely wants to bring back a functional economy for high-school graduates in rust belt America, where you can buy a house and send your kids to college.
The event is a zoo, with long lines both for attendees as well as media, who are watching the event from a conference room lined with folding tables and a single flat screen television. Reporters get to mix with attendees in the crammed concert hall - capacity 783 - before the event, but will banished about 30 minutes before it starts.
It’s just that he’s still a Republican, so in spite of diagnosing the disease, all his cures are still poison. A flat tax, and tax repatriation are going to be great for rich guys, but the annual savings from both aren’t going to offset the fact that Santorum is talking about $20/hour jobs with benefits that you can fill in China for $2/hour and a handful of dust.
The American media gathers for Trump pic.twitter.com/eU1D37rWGM
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Huckabee is invited to contrast “New York values” with conservative values. He passes on the question, sort of, in favor of a diatribe about big money in politics.
Tom McCarthy
“I’m not going to get into an argument with all those New Yorkers because there’s a lot of them,” he jokes. First joke. Wins laughter in the hall.
There it is: the Gilmore Google spike.
Then Huckabee says he wishes New Yorkers had given to his campaign the way they have given to the “corporatist candidates.”
This just in: searches for @gov_gilmore are up 700% during the early #GOPdebate. pic.twitter.com/hH40gB6vsd
Then Huckabee reverses himself:
12.48am GMT
When I say I wish they had, I’m glad they didn’t.
00:48
Tom McCarthy
Santorum is asked why he did not attend this year’s March for Life, the anti-abortion rally. He says he’s been the last 20 years but it was snowing a bunch this year so he skipped.
“Twice in my life we were counseled to have an abortion,” says Santorum, whose youngest daughter, Bella, has a rare genetic disorder. He says he and his wife never once considered it.
Then Fiorina jumps in on Santorum’s side.
It is outrageous, frankly, that Fox News, and you, would question the pro-life credentials of Rick Santorum. That is outrageous.
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Here's who you could have won... The undercard debate #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/5cEJViXc2L
12.11am GMT
00:11
Now, the first question ever for former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore in a GOP presidential debate. He had not visited Iowa at all, as of one week ago.
“I have been in Iowa, but this is not the place where I am beginning my campaign. I am beginning my campaign in New Hampshire,” Gilmore says.
That’s a creative and unique pitch to Iowa voters: I have written you off, voters.
Then Gilmore points out he’s the only veteran in the race and says in his presidency “the veterans are going to be treated with respect.”
12.08am GMT
00:08
Tom McCarthy
Tom McCarthy
Fiorina is now up. “Is your party in crisis?” is the question.
Fiorina says that most Americans find Clinton’s and the Democratic party’s position on abortion “horrific.” She says as president she would fund women’s health.
Fiorina says that she started at the back of the field but now “hundreds and hundreds” of Iowans show up at her every event.
Updated
Fiorina registers at 1.6 points in polling averages in Iowa. She closes with a Santorum-style attack on the moderators.
at 12.54am GMT
The candidates have figured out that trashing the media works this primary season.
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Fiorina: 'If my husband did what Bill Clinton did, I would have left him long ago'
Tom McCarthy
Tom McCarthy
Good follow-up question: If you’re complaining so much about Trump, why are you going to his event after this? Do you plan to endorse him?
They’re back. Question for Fiorina. She had said, “Unlike the other woman candidate in this race, I actually love spending time with my husband.” Why didn’t she stick with an earlier vow not to level personal attacks?
Santorum says he’s being invited to throw mud. “I’m not going to attack Donald Trump,” he says.
“It wasn’t a personal attack. I was pointing out the fact that Hillary Clinton will do anything to gain and hang on to power,” Fiorina says.
Does Santorum consider his prospective endorsement of Trump a kind of attack on Trump?
If my husband did what Bill Clinton did, I would have left him long ago.
12.05am GMT
Then she gets off some Clinton zingers. She says she belongs in the big house, not the White House.
00:05
She’s escaped prosecution more times than El Chapo... the woman should be prosecuted!
Santorum: media 'segregates' me
The sharp attack on Clinton wins big applause and cheers.
Santorum now: He’s asked whether Monday night in Iowa is his “last stand.”
Updated
Santorum scoffs. He complains that the debate now begun was not advertised. He is blaming the network for his failure to register in the polls. He’s a hot potato.
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“This is what the media has been doing in the past year, in trying to segregate and take Iowans out of the process.”
12.40am GMT
The entire talk in advance of this debate, he says, was about whether Donald Trump was going to show up. That’s not a substantive issue, he says.
00:40
12.03am GMT
Jim Gilmore’s “when I’m president of the United States” line is starting to look more and more unfeasible, according to ABC’s Ryan Struyk.
00:03
Gilmore has already missed ballot deadlines in: GA, AL, AR, ID, OK, OH, MI, UT, TX, AZ, ME, MO, IL, LA, KY, DC, NV, VT, MS, KS.
12.40am GMT
00:40
Commercial break! Who’s winning? Still Gilmore?
12.39am GMT
00:39
Tom McCarthy
Tom McCarthy
First question is for Huckabee. He’s asked why his message is not punching through “this time.” Huckabee won Iowa in 2008.
Santorum is asked how his flat tax would create jobs. He doesn’t say that it’s not the job of the tax code to create jobs. But he turns to regulation, saying he would cut “every single Obama regulation, including Obamacare.” He lists ozone regulations, mercury regulations and emissions.
He says his message is not getting out, implying a conspiracy against him. Then: “Let’s get rid of abortion once and for all.” Also he wants a fair tax.
“You want to help the environment?” Santorum says. “Bring jobs back to America.”
Applause.
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12.01am GMT
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00:01
12.38am GMT
Here we go! The undercard debate broadcast has begun. Live from downtown Des Moines. The candidates are onstage and are introduced. They are:
00:38
Moderators: Martha MacCallum, Bill Hemmer
Tom McCarthy
12.00am GMT
Huckabee takes a familiar question, about the anti-tax Club for Growth’s negative appraisal of his governorship. They say he raised taxes. He says he did not.
00:00
“Look at the overall record, and it’s fine,” he says. Maybe. But in any case, Huckabee raised taxes in Arkansas.
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12.36am GMT
00:36
Tom McCarthy
When Jim Gilmore’s president of the United States, gun control is not going to be an issue.
He says he’d veto gun control legislation as “fast as it takes Hillary Clinton to delete her emails.”
The crowd’s not too enthusiastic about Gilmore.
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12.35am GMT
00:35
Tom McCarthy
Gilmore gets his question. He’s asked whether he’d rip up the Iran nuclear deal.
“You know Martha, [the horse] may well be out of the barn,” Gilmore says, because Iran is embarked on a nuclear weapons program, in his view.
Then Gilmore blames the media for everything.
“The country has changed and there are powerful forces at this point that are really controlling our lives,” he says. The federal government is part of it. “But the biggest one is the organized, establishment media... This media is manipulating and shaping and framing this campaign.”
Gilmore says that when he’s president, he will stop the media manipulation of American life.
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12.32am GMT
00:32
Scott Bixby
Scott Bixby
As part of political media’s never-ending quest to answer the question, “Just who is voting for Donald Trump?”, CNN talked to more than 150 people around the country about why they’re throwing their support behind the billionaire Republican frontrunner.
The Guardian’s Ben Jacobs, on the scene at Donald Trump’s anti-debate event in Des Moines, Iowa, is finding a recurring theme among young Trump supporters: They’re really, really mad.
Of those 150, the three bros featured in “Going to College, Voting for Trump” are undoubtedly the most (unintentionally) hilarious.
#fuckhillary is the name tag of this high schooler at Trump event pic.twitter.com/uE1r6nM1Ed
Turner Eakins, Brody Buck and Tate Moyer are a trio of 18-year-old first-time voters in Omaha, Nebraska, who told CNN that Trump’s confidence, dismissal of “quote-unquote political correctness” and general badassery have won their hearts and votes.
Attendee at Trump event thinks "Bernie is a commy" pic.twitter.com/FHDcmYtie5
With the gusto of three models in the pre-scene introduction of a Sean Cody video, Eakins, Buck and Moyer say that Trump, like themselves, is a man of action.
12.31am GMT
They’re also big on wearing incredibly tight shirts.
00:31
Moyer isn’t totally sure about Trump...
Tom McCarthy
...but as my father once said, “If you don’t want to go to Minneapolis, then don’t get on the train.”
Next question goes to Huckabee– and Gilmore does not like it.
The Nebraska caucuses are scheduled for March 5, 2016.
“Did you miss me?” Gilmore interrupts, accusingly. “Did you skip me?” He’s angry.
11.54pm GMT
The moderator promises to ask him more questions.... later.
23:54
Losing the frontman
What will it be like to watch the Republican presidential candidates take the stage without frontman Donald Trump? Will the act be as good? Will they deliver the same boost that fans have come to expect and love?
Or will the thrill not quite be the same? The pixie dust gone? The old hits tinged with loss?
There’s a long trail of uneven precedent to point to here. AC/DC continued to tour after the death of Bon Scott; Pink Floyd forged on without Roger Waters; Van Halen persevered after losing David Lee Roth. The list extends: Queen without Mercury, Fleetwood Mac without Christine McVie, Lynyrd Skynyrd without everyone...some succeeded, and some crashed and burned.
But the Republican field is not a band. (Yet.) They’re closer, perhaps, to a beloved situation comedy.
So perhaps it is more apt to contemplate (and here a big h/t @rayajalabi) Laverne and Shirley without Cindy Williams (Shirley); American Office without Steve Carrell; House without Lisa Edelstein; Downton without Dan Stevens; The OC without Marisa (RIP Mischa Barton); Two and a Half Men without Charlie Sheen; ER without Anthony Edwards (!); Law & Order SVU without Stabler, Buffy the Vampire Slayer without David Boreanaz (!!); or That 70s Show without Topher Grace.
Also to be carefully considered, however, is the flip side: that the comparison to be made here is not to the act that continues after losing its lead – but to the lead who soars after going solo.
Will Donald Trump emerge as Beyonce sans Destiny’s Child? Phil Collins without Genesis? Lauren Hill post-Fugees, Lou Reed post-Velvet Underground, Joan Jett post-Runaways, Iggy Pop post-Stooges, Robbie Williams post-Take That, Lionel Richie post-Commodores... or ... or ..
Will Donald Trump emerge as Justin Timberlake, post-*NSync? Seems right.
Needless to say, it would here be your civic duty to Let Us Know in the Comments.
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The Guardian’s Ben Jacobs has confirmed that Donald Trump will not be making a last-minute change to his schedule and will not be attending tonight’s Republican primary debate in Des Moines - sorry, Jeb Bush.
Mona Chalabi
Trump campaign just confirmed to me that he WILL NOT participate in Fox News debate tonight
Taxing instructions
11.25pm GMT
Fiorina’s ambition for a three-page tax code might sound completely impossible but this wasn’t always the case - she’s right that the tax code has got increasingly complicated.
23:25
In 1940, income tax return instructions were just two pages long. By 2013, they had soared to 207 pages, as this great graphic from the Washington Post shows.
12.30am GMT
00:30
Tom McCarthy
Tom McCarthy
While we wait for the undercard debate, scheduled to begin in about half an hour, you can get caught up on the day in politics news by scrolling through Alan Yuhas’ live blog:
Santorum is asked about the woman at a Bernie Sanders rally who broke down this week talking about the duress of living on the minimum age. What would he tell her?
Related: Huckabee and Santorum join Trump's debate alternative – as it happened
Santorum says he’d say that America needs jobs. He promises a renaissance in American manufacturing. “Most folks don’t talk about what they’re going to do to create jobs for people.”
And here are other selections from our politics coverage today:
Updated
Related: Unorthodox Trump smashes Fox News influence over rightwing media
Related: Marco Rubio: from 'Republican savior' to prophet of gloom … and back again
00:28
Related: I worked on Wall Street. I am skeptical Hillary Clinton will rein it in | Chris Arnade
Tom McCarthy
11.13pm GMT
Fiorina is talking about a three-page tax code. She is wearing a prominent golden cross around her neck. She says that instituting the code would challenge the status quo. “Take out your smart phones. If you agree with me that the three-page tax code has to pass... press 1 for yes, citizens, press 2 for no.”
23:13
We tried it. It does not work. We’re not saying how we voted. We’re not sure what we were voting on.
12.27am GMT
00:27
Scott Bixby
Scott Bixby
Once again, after political analysts and media experts declared for months that there was no possible way that Donald Trump was going to do the thing that he was threatening to do, Donald Trump did the thing that he was threatening to do. You’d think we’d have learned by now.
Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee says that “you can’t win” unless you meet the people of Iowa - but if the most popular Google search questions about Huckabee are any indication, you can’t win unless people are totally sure that you’re still running for president.
Here’s what you need to know about Donald Trump’s debate counter-programming:
Google, which is co-sponsoring tonight’s debate with Fox News, is hosting a fantastic trends page on the debate, the candidates and the Republican party ahead of the Iowa caucuses - well worth the look.
What is it?
The candidate is billing the event as the “Donald J. Trump Special Event to Benefit Veterans Organizations,” with proceeds from tonight’s event apparently being directed towards the the Donald J. Trump Foundation’s work on veterans services. (Given that tickets to the event, held at the 775-seat Sheslow Auditorium at Drake University, are being given away for free, it’s unclear where the proceeds will come from.)
The Donald J. Trump Foundation traditionally gives only a tiny fraction of its total donations to veterans organizations. Between 2009 and 2013, it gave $57,000 of $5.5m to veterans groups; the rest went to 291 other organizations. (Trump himself has made no charitable contributions to his own foundation since 2008, as of last August.)
How to watch:
Corey Lewandoski, Trump’s campaign manager, has invited the press to cover the fundraiser as closely as they wish. “It’s open the media and obviously as all of Mr. Trump’s speeches are if the networks choose to come and cover that we obviously would welcome that opportunity,” Lewandowski told Breitbart News. “If they want to live feed or live stream that, they’re welcome to do that as they do many of his speeches.”
The two non-Fox News cable news networks have both intimated that they plan to cover Trump’s event - at least in part - although neither network will pre-empt regularly scheduled programming. If you want wall-to-wall coverage, however, C-SPAN will be streaming the rally live at 9pm Eastern, with a “pre-program” at 8pm Eastern.
Donald Trump Campaign Rally in Des Moines, IA – LIVE at 9pm ET on C-SPAN https://t.co/f5BE5lmLKz #iacaucus pic.twitter.com/SdqPRLBEcv
Who will be there?
The Donald himself, obviously, but the Republican frontrunner will be joined by two other presidential candidates. Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and former senator Rick Santorum - winners of the 2008 and 2012 Iowa caucuses, respectively - will attend the event after participating in tonight’s undercard debate on Fox News. Representatives for both campaigns told the New York Times’ Maggie Haberman that they’re attending purely to support US veterans, the putative beneficiaries of Trump’s event. Huckabee clarified that his attendance is “not an endorsement of Trump’s candidacy,” telling CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that he’s “still running for president.” (Our analysis: If you have to say it...)
Why is this happening, again?
Why isn’t it happening?
Basically, Trump is still sore about Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly’s introductory line of questioning at the Republican presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio, in August, wherein the anchor grilled Trump on his history of offensive statements about women. The two have been engaged in a highly public feud ever since, with Trump insinuating that Kelly was menstruating during the debate and Kelly’s attempts to take the high road thwarted by Fox News boss Roger Ailes’ snarky press release dismissing Trump’s threats to ditch the debate.
Trump, after conducting an informal Twitter poll, decided not to attend the debate unless Kelly was replaced as moderator, which Fox News has refused to do.
And now we’re here.
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Hello! And welcome to our live-wire coverage of the seventh Republican debate in the 2016 race to the White House. Tonight we’re in Des Moines, Iowa, where voters will set the wheel of history in motion when they gather to caucus in just four days.
Mona Chalabi
Donald Trump, the free-floating GOP frontrunner, has ostentatiously ditched tonight’s debate as a demonstration of his disgust with host network Fox News and one of its moderators, Megyn Kelly.
It didn’t take long for Guantanamo Bay to come up in the conversation. But Republicans have a conspicuously selective history about the detention facility’s record of success.
The Donald has scheduled a simultaneous event in Des Moines, billed as a benefit for military veterans – which means it’s Republican fight night on the plains of Iowa and in the streets of Des Moines. His fellow candidates Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum have promised to join him – but only after they have competed in the consolation-prize undercard debate for Fox.
Prior to January 2009, Republican president George W Bush oversaw the transfer of 532 detainees out of the prison, 110 of whom are confirmed to have re-engaged in terrorism and a further 68 are suspected of having done so.
So tonight, for our readers, it’s two blogs for the price of one. While I (Tom McCarthy) bring you play-by-play of the debate, my colleague Scott Bixby will bring you coverage of the Trump event. It’ll be like channel surfing, without all the taxing effort of diddling the remote control.
According to the Director of National Intelligence, who compiled these numbers, the record since Barack Obama took office is quite different: of the 115 detainees that have been transferred from the detention facility since January 2009, only six are confirmed to have re-engaged in terrorism and one is suspected to have.
Here’s Scott:
The chart below shows how, overall, those numbers look very different. One in five re-engaged in terrorism under Bush compared to one in 20 under Obama.
It’s going to be a huge (yooge!) night in Des Moines, where only three miles from Fox News’ prime-time Republican presidential debate, Trump will be hosting a concurrent “special event”. Like a journalistic Katniss Everdeen, I have volunteered as tribute to bring you analysis and insight into the real estate tycoon’s every utterance, eye roll and insult from a rally every bit as unmissable as the Hunger Games.
12.26am GMT
… interlacing with which I, Tom, will ensure that you miss not a moment as the rest of the Republican field attempts to fill Trump’s shoes.
00:26
Boring details
Tom McCarthy
When: The undercard debate begins at 7pm ET, and the main event starts at 9pm ET.
Question for Huckabee, with a nice Biblical gloss:
Where: The Iowa Events Center in Des Moines, Iowa. Fox News will broadcast the event and stream it live on their website here.
Is this presidency simply too small a David to slay the Goliath of government?
Who: The main event features:
Huh? Huckabee smiles and says no, and then mercifully speeds into an anecdote about a man who lost his manufacturing job.
Moderators: Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly, Chris Wallace
“You can’t win unless you go out and talk to farmers and housewives and unemployed truck drivers,” and any president hoping to fill the role must make connections with everyday voters, he says.
The undercard features:
Moderators: Martha MacCallum, Bill Hemmer
Why: Indeed.
Please jump into the comments section and let us know who you expect to emerge on top when all the smoke has cleared. Thanks for joining us!
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12.23am GMT
00:23
They’re back! The moderator says, ominously, “this is debate number one in what will be a long night here.” He sounds sort of tired already.
