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MPs debate terror detention limit Brown defends terror limit plans
(about 2 hours later)
The government's controversial proposal to allow terror suspects to be detained for up to 42 days without charge is to be debated by MPs from about 1540 BST. Gordon Brown has said proposed changes to anti-terrorism laws will not mean a "blanket extension to 42 days" on the pre-charge limit for holding suspects.
The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is confident the government will get the plan through. The PM said the proposal before MPs was different to previous plans, and would require Parliament's approval.
But Labour backbenchers are predicting a significant rebellion - and Tory and Lib Dem MPs have said they will vote against the Bill in its later stages. He said it would balance the rights of the individual with security needs.
The current laws allow suspects to be detained for 28 days. It will be debated from 1540 BST. Some Labour backbenchers are set to rebel. Tory and Lib Dem MPs have said they will vote against it in later stages.
Ms Smith has said that the 42-day detention would only be used temporarily and in exceptional circumstances. 'Multiple plots'
The current laws allow terrorism suspects to be detained for up to 28 days before they have to be charged.
Mr Brown said all sides had agreed there was likely to be an occasion in the future where someone would have to be held beyond 28 days - for example in a situation where there are "multiple plots".
There is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days. That is a myth and that is wrong Gordon Brown
He said the proposal would mean no-one could be held beyond 28 days, without MPs' approval and without agreement from the Director of Public Prosecutions and a police chief. An independent reviewer will also go over the circumstances.
"There is no proposal for a blanket extension to 42 days. That is a myth and that is wrong," said Mr Brown.
"There can only be a detention beyond 28 days if the home secretary comes to Parliament... during that period of detention and asks Parliament to approve the action that has been taken to declare this particular incident one that requires going beyond 28 days.
"And even then there will be full safeguards for the individual so that nobody is treated arbitrarily."
Labour rebellion
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has said that the 42-day detention would only be used temporarily and in exceptional circumstances.
But some Labour backbenchers remain unconvinced by the arguments - and are expected to vote against the Counter-Terrorism Bill during the later stages of its passage through Parliament.But some Labour backbenchers remain unconvinced by the arguments - and are expected to vote against the Counter-Terrorism Bill during the later stages of its passage through Parliament.
There has been no evidence to show that we need more than 28 days David DavisShadow Home SecretaryThere has been no evidence to show that we need more than 28 days David DavisShadow Home Secretary
David Winnick, deputy chairman of the home affairs select committee, predicted a sizeable rebellion.David Winnick, deputy chairman of the home affairs select committee, predicted a sizeable rebellion.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "It doesn't give us any joy to try to get the government defeated - far from it - but they're absolutely wrong on this issue.He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "It doesn't give us any joy to try to get the government defeated - far from it - but they're absolutely wrong on this issue.
"If there was evidence, compelling evidence, that it was necessary for the security of our country against terrorism that it should go beyond 28 days, I for one would support it. He said there was no compelling evidence it was necessary to go beyond 28 days adding: "Bearing in mind it's the longest period of detention without charge anywhere in Europe, I would say to the government, quite clearly, drop it."
"But in the absence of such evidence, and bearing in mind it's the longest period of detention without charge anywhere in Europe, I would say to the government, quite clearly, drop it."
'Indefensible''Indefensible'
Shadow Home Secretary David Davis, for the Conservatives, said there were some aspects of the Bill he supported but he was confident of being able to defeat the government on the issue of 42 day detention. Shadow Home Secretary David Davis, said he supported some aspects of the Bill but was confident the government would be defeated on the issue of 42 day detention.
He told Today: "There is already a consensus in the House of Commons for 28 days and not a day longer.He told Today: "There is already a consensus in the House of Commons for 28 days and not a day longer.
"There has been no evidence to show that we need more than 28 days.""There has been no evidence to show that we need more than 28 days."
Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said he supported some parts of the Counter-Terrorism Bill, such as post-charge questioning and allowing use of intercept evidence in court in limited cases.Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said he supported some parts of the Counter-Terrorism Bill, such as post-charge questioning and allowing use of intercept evidence in court in limited cases.
But he said extending the detention of suspects without charge beyond 28 days was "indefensible", threatening not only civil liberties but "the trust that exists between minority communities and the security services".But he said extending the detention of suspects without charge beyond 28 days was "indefensible", threatening not only civil liberties but "the trust that exists between minority communities and the security services".
He added: "We will seek to amend the bill in committee before we agree to sacrifice the good to get rid of the ugly. I expect the key votes to be in committee and at report stage at some point in May."
Terror plotsTerror plots
Plans to extend terror detention to 90 days were defeated by MPs in November 2005 by 31 votes, with 49 Labour MPs rebelling against the government.Plans to extend terror detention to 90 days were defeated by MPs in November 2005 by 31 votes, with 49 Labour MPs rebelling against the government.
But senior police officers, including Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, have continued to call for an extension beyond 28 days.But senior police officers, including Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, have continued to call for an extension beyond 28 days.
In October, Sir Ian told the home affairs committee terror plots were growing in number and complexity and it was "sensible" to extend detention to between 50 and 90 days with judicial oversight. But Lord Dear - formerly Geoffrey Dear, the chief constable of West Midlands Police - told Today earlier: "We don't need an extension. The ex-attorney general has said so, many senior police officers I know and speak to privately say so.
But Lord Dear - formerly Geoffrey Dear, the chief constable of West Midlands Police - told Today earlier that he was sceptical of the argument for longer detention.
He said: "We don't need an extension. The ex-attorney general has said so, many senior police officers I know and speak to privately say so.
"We have not lost any cases at all by going past the 28 day barrier at the moment.""We have not lost any cases at all by going past the 28 day barrier at the moment."
Racial equalityRacial equality
A series of safeguards have been proposed by Ms Smith as ministers seek to win over enough Labour opponents to allow the proposals to go through.A series of safeguards have been proposed by Ms Smith as ministers seek to win over enough Labour opponents to allow the proposals to go through.
They include giving MPs a debate within 30 days about any case of a suspect being held beyond 28 days.They include giving MPs a debate within 30 days about any case of a suspect being held beyond 28 days.
The plans to extend the limit could also face an Equality and Human Rights Commission court challenge.The plans to extend the limit could also face an Equality and Human Rights Commission court challenge.
The commission says the Bill could contravene race equality legislation, as it is being established to deal with a particular religious and racial minority.The commission says the Bill could contravene race equality legislation, as it is being established to deal with a particular religious and racial minority.