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EU referendum debate: first major TV clash between the campaigns – live EU referendum debate: first major TV clash between the campaigns – live
(35 minutes later)
8.18pm BST 8.54pm BST
20:18 20:54
Second question. Michael Harvey, 26, a cleaner from Glasgow cites George Osborne as that leaving the EU would mean a drop in house prices. “Why is this a bad thing?” he asks. A student nurse, Dawn, wants to know what advantages there would be to the NHS about leaving.
Alan Johnson replies that he is always puzzled by the British obsession with house prices. All the reports he has mentioned are about the economy “tanking” and walking away from other trading opportunities. Diane James comes in with -- guess what? -- a point link to immigration: “I might seem like I’m repeating myself.”
Salmond is in next: “Neither Alan or I are responsible for the utterances of George Osborne. We want to make a positive case for the EU. “I would far rather see people like yourself go through the nurse training programme and come here,” James tells Dawn. She wants the UK to be able to go to other countries - Commonwealth ones - with which it has a good relationship with and whose skill base it can trust.
“It’s the idea and principle that will win votes.” 8.53pm BST
8.15pm BST 20:53
20:15 Liam Fox says he doesn’t understand what the SNP didn’t understand about their defeat in the Scottish poll. The issue is another case of “fear based” campaigning, according to the MP.
Derbyshire asks the audience what they make of the “apocalyptic” forecasts. “Yes or no, do you believe them?” she asks. 8.52pm BST
It was a loud “no” she says. Not the most scientific way of measuring opinion in the studio perhaps. 20:52
Alan Johnson isn’t happy: “It was a loud ‘no’” from over there.” Elina Leslie from Dundee asks: if Scotland voted one way and the rest of Britain voted the other way would it lead to another “unwanted” referendum on Scottish independence?
By definition it wouldn’t be unwanted, according to Salmond, who cites Nicola Sturgeon’s view last year that if Scotland was “dragged” out of Europe against its own will then that would provide a democratic mandate for a new poll.
When? Salmond says: “It would have to be within the two year period of the UK negotiating withdrawal from the EU.”
“If Scotland votes remain and the rest of the UK votes to leave then that in my mind would justify another referendum.”
8.48pm BST
20:48
It seems like Liam Fox is tweeting (or is someone in control of his iPhone) from inside the debate. He’s just retweeted this:
I think @LiamFoxMP is speaking very well. Control who comes to the UK is sensibility? No? #BBCDebate #Brexit
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at 8.16pm BST at 8.51pm BST
8.12pm BST 8.46pm BST
20:12 20:46
To the audience now (it’s fairly fast paced stuff) and a young man says that the EU is “stagnating growth”. One viewer is unimpressed with the audience’s attire:
Liam Fox says that economic forecasters nearly always get it wrong and picks up that young audience member’s point. One man is wearing nice trousers. The rest of the audience should be ashamed. #BBCDebate
“It’s not just a question of jobs. It’s the impact it’s having on the wider economy,” he adds, telling the audience that the European economy is now the lowest growing economy in the world apart from Antarctica. And another observation:
That's the second #BBCDebate audience member in five mins who's been on #BBCQT very recently.
8.46pm BST
20:46
Alan Johnson takes on the Leave argument that travel arrangements would not change for UK citizens in the event of a Brexit.
It could mean the return of watchtowers along the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, he says.
An audience member says he has been thinking about this too and asks what the Leave side have to say about Johnson’s point.
Fox says there have always been bilateral arrangements between the UK and the Republic of Ireland: “Why would that change?”
On this same issue, here’s some coverage recently from across the Irish border and how the referendum campaign is being received there:
Related: Beyond borders: the Irish villages dreading a Brexit vote
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8.10pm BST 8.42pm BST
20:10 20:42
Alan Johnson is up next, who says that being in the EU means more opportunities for young people. As debates go, this is a fairly boisterous one, perhaps even bad-tempered? The Guardian’s Heather Stewart picks up on this exchange between audience members earlier:
Alan Johnson: being in the EU means more opportunities for young people #euref #BBCDebate Young woman being barracked by other audience members. "This feels like I'm in House of Commons here and it's PM's questions!" #BBCDebate
Diane James comes in with some figures highlighting the high rate of unemployment in the EU.
Alex Samond says that he “doesn’t go with the scaremongering stuff,” adding: “The treasury says it’s going to be apocalypse. I don’t believe that.”
“I do believe that the Bank of England says however, which is that there will be less growth.”
He follows up with some of the cultural appeal to voters, drawing a link to a supposed larger European community and mentioning how “you can go to Barcelona and see some great football”.
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8.06pm BST 8.40pm BST
20:06 20:40
First question, from Muniab, an 18-year-old student who asks will the economy be strong enough if the UK leaves? Two more questions from the audience now – both linked to travel:
Liam Fox gets to bat first, and is pressed by Victoria Derbyshire who asks him if Muniab will get a job if Britain leaves the UK. There is a world out there outside of the EU, says Fox, who adds that he and his family used to have holidays in Europe before the union came along.
“If you are good enough to get a job you will get a job,” says Fox, who says that control of stimulating the economy will only come if the UK leaves the EU. “The idea that because we are not in the EU that you are not going to be able to have a holiday in Majorca is just...” he says, before Derbyshire says that no one is suggesting that.
Did it answer the question? “Sort of,” says Muniab (apologies if I misspelled your name).
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at 8.10pm BST at 8.45pm BST
8.03pm BST 8.37pm BST
20:03 20:37
We’re hearing first from a few members of the audience. It includes 55 ‘undecideds’ as well as two blocks who have made up their minds. Back to immigration again, courtesy of Diane James, who says that qualified doctors in Commonwealth countries are being denied entry to the UK.
The second of them – the microphone didn’t pick up her name – says: “Why not have someone from the Commonwealth who speaks our language?” she says.
“This referendum is really important but not a lot of young people my age are talking about it.” To cheers from Remain supporters in the audience, Salmond comes in with: “If I wanted a qualified doctor then a qualified Lithuanian, Danish, French one would do just now.”
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at 8.12pm BST at 8.49pm BST
8.01pm BST 8.34pm BST
20:01 20:34
So there goes, the referendum campaign’s ‘Yoof’ debate as it were – despite the fact ... er ... that the youngest member of the panel is 54 and the eldest 66. Not everyone is enjoying the debate at home...
I regret watching this already #bbcdebate
This would be better if they had a completely different panel and a completely different audience #BBCDebate
8.34pm BST
20:34
Have the two sides been scaremongering?
Yes, says a woman in the audience who supports Brexit but dislikes the messages from her own ‘side’: “Some of the noise that we have heard about immigration and how awful it is if we stay.”
“I do want to leave and I think it would be better if we leave.”
However, she wants to ask the Remain side if David Cameron really believes “it will be world war three if we leave then why are we even risking a referendum?”
An audience member from the Remain side says that a massive majority of people are not going to turn out because of the poor quality of the debate.
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at 8.03pm BST at 8.37pm BST
7.57pm BST 8.31pm BST
19:57 20:31
Tonight’s debate is the first of eight major televised debates between now and the end of June. The others are: Salmond says that there are four weeks to go in the campaign and the Remain side really needs to engage people with positivity: “Leave the scaremongering behind and argue a positive case.”
David Cameron Live. Sky News, June 2, 8pm But project fear won, says Derbyshire. “It works. You lost.”
After an interview by Faisal Islam, the prime minister will face a question and answer session from an audience, moderated by Kay Burley. Cue a short segue into the Scottish referendum’s twists and turns.
Michael Gove Live. ITV, June 9, 9pm
The same format as the previous night’s show will centre on the justice secretary, who will make the Leave case.Cameron and Farage Live: The EU referendum. ITV, June 7, 9pm
Hosted by Julie Etchingham, Ukip leader Nigel Farage will take 3o minutes of questions from a studio audience, followed by the prime minister.The ITV Referendum Debate. ITV, June 9, 8pm
Etchingham will host a programme featuring two teams of political figures from either side of the debate.
Question Time EU Referendum Special with Michael Gove. BBC One, June 15, 6.45pm
David Dimbleby will chair 40 minutes of questions to the justice secretary from an audience at a venue in Nottingham.
Question Time EU Referendum Special with David Cameron. BBC One, June 19, 6.45pm
The same format as the programme with will feature the prime minister four days later in Milton Keynes.
EU Referendum: The Great Debate. BBC One, June 21, 8pm
Dimbleby, Emiy Maitlis and Mishal Husain will host a debate which is expected to feature major figures from either side.
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at 8.04pm BST at 8.38pm BST
7.49pm BST 8.27pm BST
19:49 20:27
Good evening and welcome to live coverage of the first major televised debate of the referendum campaign. It’s livening up a bit now. “Hang on ... I know you have no interest in the facts,” says Alan Johnson, in a comment that appears to have been directed at Liam Fox.
Aimed at voters aged 19-to-29, it’s going out at 8pm (UK time) on BBC 1 and will be hosted by Victoria Derbyshire. Fox wants to move things back to the issue of immigration: “When you have an uncontrolled figure then unavoidably put pressure on services. It’s for us in our own country to decide that number.”
On the Remain side:
On the Leave side:
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at 8.05pm BST at 8.34pm BST
8.25pm BST
20:25
Emily Wood, a music producer from Poole has the third question. She says her disabled mum needs a bungalow but that immigrants are “bumped up the list”. Is she right to want to leave?
Salmond: “I wouldn’t make that connection. If we have a housing crisis we should build more housing.”
He ventures the scenario of Boris Johnson dislocating his jaw from overuse (laughs from audience). The Tory MP wouldn’t turn away help from doctors who had migrated here, he says.
Emily Wood isn’t happy, saying that she didn’t claim that migrants were not happy: “You have not got enough houses now ... so where are you going to put them?
It then kicks off a little bit between Wood and Asma, another audience member who gets a “waheey” from Salmond when she says that she is from Aberdeen.
“When it comes to housing, it is because of the EU that we have certain regulations that allow us to have spacious rooms,” says Asma, who also cites the contribution of her own parents who she says immigrated into the UK.
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at 8.29pm BST