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EU referendum live: Khan accuses Boris Johnson of leading 'Project Hate' in BBC's Great Debate EU referendum live: Khan accuses Boris Johnson of leading 'Project Hate' in BBC's Great Debate
(35 minutes later)
10.54pm BST
22:54
Lord Sugar, the former Labour peer and newly-appointed government enterprise tsar, is getting criticised for posting this on Twitter.
I find it strange that Gisela Gschaider a 1974 immigrant from Germany is on the brexit panel telling us British what we should do .
10.48pm BST
22:48
This is from the Mail’s Matt Dathan.
Sadiq Khan's team confirm he hasn't eaten or drank for 19 hours (Ramadan). I would love to watch Boris debate under the same circumstances!
10.42pm BST
22:42
And this is from the Sun’s Steve Hawkes.
William Hill twice shortened the odds on Ruth Davidson succeeding David Cameron during the debate - 33/1 to 25/1, then onto 16/1
10.41pm BST
22:41
According to the Sun’s Tom Newton Dunn, the spin room got lively.
Pretty massive impromptu dust up ongoing now in #BBCDebate spin room between Michael Gove and Will Straw. pic.twitter.com/W9Uh3LIeYH
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10.30pm BST
22:30
And here is the Vote Leave chief executive Matthew Elliott on the debate.
The In campaign had nothing positive to contribute tonight - just like they’ve failed to make a positive contribution during the whole campaign. They’ve lost the economic argument, they don’t want to spend the £350m we send to Brussels every week on our priorities and can’t explain how we can ever control immigration from inside the EU. The couldn’t even be honest about how many laws in this country come from Brussels. The public will have a choice on Thursday, they can choose project fear and vote In or they can chose project hope and take back control of their money and their borders. A Vote to Leave on Thursday is a vote for democracy.
(So Vote Leave have not entirely give up on the £350m. See 10.10pm.)
10.24pm BST10.24pm BST
22:2422:24
Here is the Britain Stronger in Europe take on tonight’s debate. This is from the briefing they have sent to journalists.Here is the Britain Stronger in Europe take on tonight’s debate. This is from the briefing they have sent to journalists.
Tonight the Leave campaign blew their last chance to show they have a plan for Britain’s future:Tonight the Leave campaign blew their last chance to show they have a plan for Britain’s future:
· The Leave campaign have no plan for the future of our economy, because they couldn’t guarantee jobs, said it would take “ten years” to do a new trade deal with the EU, and couldn’t name a single country who would do a trade deal with the UK outside the EU· The Leave campaign have no plan for the future of our economy, because they couldn’t guarantee jobs, said it would take “ten years” to do a new trade deal with the EU, and couldn’t name a single country who would do a trade deal with the UK outside the EU
· The Leave campaign have no plan for the future of immigration, because they were unable to say they would reduce numbers· The Leave campaign have no plan for the future of immigration, because they were unable to say they would reduce numbers
· The Leave campaign have no plan for our national security, as Ruth Davidson demolished their case by outlining the experts who back Remain and Leave campaigners failed to name a country who backed their stance· The Leave campaign have no plan for our national security, as Ruth Davidson demolished their case by outlining the experts who back Remain and Leave campaigners failed to name a country who backed their stance
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10.10pm BST10.10pm BST
22:1022:10
BBC's EU Referendum 'Great Debate' - Snap verdictBBC's EU Referendum 'Great Debate' - Snap verdict
The only really reliable way to assess who has “won” a debate is to find a representative panel and poll them, but even then people are likely to side with the politicians they supported before it started, and so really you need to find a panel of neutrals. And if a panel of neutrals had watched that? Most likely, they would have ended up as confused as ever.The only really reliable way to assess who has “won” a debate is to find a representative panel and poll them, but even then people are likely to side with the politicians they supported before it started, and so really you need to find a panel of neutrals. And if a panel of neutrals had watched that? Most likely, they would have ended up as confused as ever.
What was striking, though, was how Leave has managed to get to the end of the campaign, with expert economic opinion almost unanimous in saying Brexit would harm the economy and no one having the first idea what post-Brexit trading relationships would look like, and this not being a fatal handicap in a debate of this kind. The format helped tonight, because the participants were not subjected to forensic questioning, but somehow Leave have manage to brush aside all the doubts with breezy optimism. It is not a feat that many people could pull off, but Boris Johnson manages it and for him tonight must rank as a success. Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom were fine too. I found the endless mother/grandmother references a bit much, but I suspect for many viewers they were mildly reassuring. What was striking, though, was how leave has managed to get to the end of the campaign, with expert economic opinion almost unanimous in saying Brexit would harm the economy and no one having the first idea what post-Brexit trading relationships would look like, and this not being a fatal handicap in a debate of this kind. The format helped tonight, because the participants were not subjected to forensic questioning, but somehow leave have managed to brush aside all the doubts with breezy optimism. It is not a feat that many people could pull off, but Boris Johnson manages it and for him tonight must rank as a success. Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom were fine too. I found the endless mother/grandmother references a bit much, but I suspect for many viewers they were mildly reassuring.
Remain were underpowered on the economy, and struggling on immigration, but if debates of this kind are judged by how people see them on the TV news - and for most people that is how they are judged - then they have probably done better than my early snap summaries imply. Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson are veterans of mayoral/Scottish debates, but have never been tested on a prime ministerial platform of this kind, and they both acquitted themselves well. Good speakers use lists to make rhetorical points, and Khan and Davidson came pre-prepared with powerful zingers. It was uncanny to hear Khan sound just like David Cameron at one point, but Cameron is generally an effective communicator and Khan is not precious about lifting a good line. Khan and Davidson also challenged Johnson robustly, although it was noticeable that neither of them tried accusing him of opportunism (perhaps a recognition that the Amber Rudd/Angela Eagle/Nicola Sturgeon attacks like this in the ITV debate failed). Frances O’Grady was less flamboyant, but no less impressive, and tonight she may have done more to improve the reputation of trade unionists than anyone has done for years.Remain were underpowered on the economy, and struggling on immigration, but if debates of this kind are judged by how people see them on the TV news - and for most people that is how they are judged - then they have probably done better than my early snap summaries imply. Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson are veterans of mayoral/Scottish debates, but have never been tested on a prime ministerial platform of this kind, and they both acquitted themselves well. Good speakers use lists to make rhetorical points, and Khan and Davidson came pre-prepared with powerful zingers. It was uncanny to hear Khan sound just like David Cameron at one point, but Cameron is generally an effective communicator and Khan is not precious about lifting a good line. Khan and Davidson also challenged Johnson robustly, although it was noticeable that neither of them tried accusing him of opportunism (perhaps a recognition that the Amber Rudd/Angela Eagle/Nicola Sturgeon attacks like this in the ITV debate failed). Frances O’Grady was less flamboyant, but no less impressive, and tonight she may have done more to improve the reputation of trade unionists than anyone has done for years.
One final point: did you notice that there was almost no mention of the £350m that Vote Leave claim we sent to the EU every week? That figure has been widely denounced as untrue, but for weeks Vote Leave defended it. Perhaps it has finally become discredited? Or perhaps it has been grounded because its task is done? One final point: did you notice that there was almost no mention of the £350m that Vote Leave claim we send to the EU every week? That figure has been widely denounced as untrue, but for weeks Vote Leave defended it. Perhaps it has finally become discredited? Or perhaps it has been grounded because its task is done?
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at 10.14pm BST at 10.26pm BST
9.45pm BST9.45pm BST
21:4521:45
Dimbleby ends by saying he hopes this has clarified some of the issues.Dimbleby ends by saying he hopes this has clarified some of the issues.
The debate is now effectively over. The last 15 minutes are devoted to what is being said from the spin room.The debate is now effectively over. The last 15 minutes are devoted to what is being said from the spin room.
(I can save you the bother of watching. Remain supporters think their side did best, and Leave say the same about their team.)(I can save you the bother of watching. Remain supporters think their side did best, and Leave say the same about their team.)
9.43pm BST9.43pm BST
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We are now on to the closing questions.We are now on to the closing questions.
Ruth Davidson says we cannot be confident that leave have all the answers that we need. And you need to be 100% confident to vote leave. The Britain she loves does not walk away from other countries. She, Sadiq and Frances all agree we are better off in. Vote remain, she says.Ruth Davidson says we cannot be confident that leave have all the answers that we need. And you need to be 100% confident to vote leave. The Britain she loves does not walk away from other countries. She, Sadiq and Frances all agree we are better off in. Vote remain, she says.
Boris Johnson says there is a very clear choice between those on the other side, who offer fear, and leave, who offer hope. The other side run the country down. We believe in Britain, he says. He says remain say we must bow down to Brussels. He says leave believe they can take control. If we stand up for democracy, we will be speaking up for hundreds of people around Europe who have no voice. If we vote leave, this Thursday can be our country’s independence day.Boris Johnson says there is a very clear choice between those on the other side, who offer fear, and leave, who offer hope. The other side run the country down. We believe in Britain, he says. He says remain say we must bow down to Brussels. He says leave believe they can take control. If we stand up for democracy, we will be speaking up for hundreds of people around Europe who have no voice. If we vote leave, this Thursday can be our country’s independence day.
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at 9.55pm BSTat 9.55pm BST
9.39pm BST9.39pm BST
21:3921:39
Britain's place in the world questions - Snap verdictBritain's place in the world questions - Snap verdict
Remain were more impressive. As a debate, this whole show has been chaotic, but the best performers have used it to unleash forceful, punchy soundbites at the appropriate moments and in this section we had clips from Khan (on 7/7, and how the London mayor has to cooperate with Europe) and from Davidson (on why she listens to security experts and on what made her join the TA) that easily deserve to be included in any round-up of the highlights of the debate.Remain were more impressive. As a debate, this whole show has been chaotic, but the best performers have used it to unleash forceful, punchy soundbites at the appropriate moments and in this section we had clips from Khan (on 7/7, and how the London mayor has to cooperate with Europe) and from Davidson (on why she listens to security experts and on what made her join the TA) that easily deserve to be included in any round-up of the highlights of the debate.
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at 9.50pm BSTat 9.50pm BST
9.34pm BST9.34pm BST
21:3421:34
Sadiq Khan challenges Leave to name a single ally that thinks we should leave the EU.Sadiq Khan challenges Leave to name a single ally that thinks we should leave the EU.
Gisela Stuart says EU allies are not paying their contribution to Nato.Gisela Stuart says EU allies are not paying their contribution to Nato.
Well stay and fight, Khan replies (or rather shouts). We’re not quitters, he says (echoing David Cameron.)Well stay and fight, Khan replies (or rather shouts). We’re not quitters, he says (echoing David Cameron.)
Ruth Davidson says she was sent to the Balkans as a reporter. She was never more proud of being British. It encouraged her to join up and serve. (She was in the Territorial Army.) While she has respect for Lord Guthrie, all the serving military chiefs say we are safer in the EU, she says.Ruth Davidson says she was sent to the Balkans as a reporter. She was never more proud of being British. It encouraged her to join up and serve. (She was in the Territorial Army.) While she has respect for Lord Guthrie, all the serving military chiefs say we are safer in the EU, she says.
Andrea Leadsom says let’s get back to the EU five presidents report.Andrea Leadsom says let’s get back to the EU five presidents report.
That’s not what the questioner asked, says Davidson.That’s not what the questioner asked, says Davidson.
Leadsom says the five presidents want an EU army.Leadsom says the five presidents want an EU army.
9.30pm BST9.30pm BST
21:3021:30
Frances O’Grady says many trade unionists have supported the peace process in Northern Ireland. The Irish prime minister has said there will have to be border controls if the UK leaves the EU.Frances O’Grady says many trade unionists have supported the peace process in Northern Ireland. The Irish prime minister has said there will have to be border controls if the UK leaves the EU.
Boris Johnson says the EU is going in the wrong direction. He remembers what happened when the EU tried to sort out what was happening in the Balkans. It was a disaster, he says. About a million people died. The situation was only improved when the US took charge.Boris Johnson says the EU is going in the wrong direction. He remembers what happened when the EU tried to sort out what was happening in the Balkans. It was a disaster, he says. About a million people died. The situation was only improved when the US took charge.
The European court of justice is saying that we cannot deport the people we want to, he says.The European court of justice is saying that we cannot deport the people we want to, he says.
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at 9.34pm BSTat 9.34pm BST
9.27pm BST9.27pm BST
21:2721:27
Question from a remain supporter: Is it a coincidence that the EU has combined with the longest period of peace in Europe?Question from a remain supporter: Is it a coincidence that the EU has combined with the longest period of peace in Europe?
Gisela Stuart says a former Interpol head says the EU is not making us safe.Gisela Stuart says a former Interpol head says the EU is not making us safe.
Ruth Davidson says it is not a coincidence. She says the other side do not like experts, but she thinks that when it comes to security, we should listen to experts. She lists some of them, and says she will listen to them, and vote for them every day, and twice on a Sunday.Ruth Davidson says it is not a coincidence. She says the other side do not like experts, but she thinks that when it comes to security, we should listen to experts. She lists some of them, and says she will listen to them, and vote for them every day, and twice on a Sunday.
Andrea Leadsom quotes experts saying EU security rests on Nato. Lord Guthrie said it was not the EU that kept Europe safe, but the leadership of the US.Andrea Leadsom quotes experts saying EU security rests on Nato. Lord Guthrie said it was not the EU that kept Europe safe, but the leadership of the US.
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at 9.33pm BSTat 9.33pm BST
9.24pm BST9.24pm BST
21:2421:24
Khan says he chooses to work with Europe on a number of issues, and he has to keep London safe. On 7/7 the city was attacked. He says one of the bombers fled abroad, but the European arrest warrant allowed him to be returned.Khan says he chooses to work with Europe on a number of issues, and he has to keep London safe. On 7/7 the city was attacked. He says one of the bombers fled abroad, but the European arrest warrant allowed him to be returned.
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at 9.31pm BSTat 9.31pm BST
9.23pm BST9.23pm BST
21:2321:23
Question five: United States of EuropeQuestion five: United States of Europe
We are now onto the section about Britain’s place in the world.We are now onto the section about Britain’s place in the world.
Question from a leave supporter: Forty years ago we voted for the Common Market. If we vote to remain, how do we know we won’t end up in a United states of Europe.Question from a leave supporter: Forty years ago we voted for the Common Market. If we vote to remain, how do we know we won’t end up in a United states of Europe.
Boris Johnson says the European court of justice is the supreme legal authority in this country. It even affects divorce laws.Boris Johnson says the European court of justice is the supreme legal authority in this country. It even affects divorce laws.
Q: Will a United States of Europe happen?Q: Will a United States of Europe happen?
Johnson says John Major said a single currency had all the force of a rain dance, but it happened.Johnson says John Major said a single currency had all the force of a rain dance, but it happened.
Ruth Davidson says Leadsom said 60% of our laws are made in Europe. That is not true, she says.Ruth Davidson says Leadsom said 60% of our laws are made in Europe. That is not true, she says.
She says the other side have constantly lied about Europe. It is not good enough, she says. You deserve the truth.She says the other side have constantly lied about Europe. It is not good enough, she says. You deserve the truth.
Gisela Stuart says that if the prime minister will not veto Turkey joining the EU, what will he veto?Gisela Stuart says that if the prime minister will not veto Turkey joining the EU, what will he veto?
She says the EU is holding back a number of measures until after the referendum, like a Europe-wide tax number.She says the EU is holding back a number of measures until after the referendum, like a Europe-wide tax number.
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at 9.30pm BSTat 9.30pm BST
9.14pm BST9.14pm BST
21:1421:14
Immigration questions: snap verdictImmigration questions: snap verdict
This is a complex question and it deserves a proper debate, and we are not having it tonight, said Ruth Davidson. Too right.This is a complex question and it deserves a proper debate, and we are not having it tonight, said Ruth Davidson. Too right.
What we did get was a sort of shoutfest, and leave probably had the best of it. Boris Johnson, who is projecting authority tonight and doing well, made a mark when he invited Frances O’Grady to “come over” and later said the remain panel agreed with him about the need for further controls. Leave generally win on immigration because remain are reluctant to defend uncontrolled immigration, but cannot credibly explain how they will control it. That said, remain tried two defensive ploys. Attacking leave over extremism did not seem to hit home effectively, although leave never answered the question about the BNP donation properly, but their charge that leave’s stance is a con because they will not commit to cutting immigration did carry force.What we did get was a sort of shoutfest, and leave probably had the best of it. Boris Johnson, who is projecting authority tonight and doing well, made a mark when he invited Frances O’Grady to “come over” and later said the remain panel agreed with him about the need for further controls. Leave generally win on immigration because remain are reluctant to defend uncontrolled immigration, but cannot credibly explain how they will control it. That said, remain tried two defensive ploys. Attacking leave over extremism did not seem to hit home effectively, although leave never answered the question about the BNP donation properly, but their charge that leave’s stance is a con because they will not commit to cutting immigration did carry force.
The debate has got livelier, with Khan’s “Project Hate” line likely to make the headlines, although it is still less personalised than the ITV one.The debate has got livelier, with Khan’s “Project Hate” line likely to make the headlines, although it is still less personalised than the ITV one.
But it has not got more illuminating. The exchanges bear so little relation to the questions that one wonders why Dimbleby bothers to ask them.But it has not got more illuminating. The exchanges bear so little relation to the questions that one wonders why Dimbleby bothers to ask them.
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9.05pm BST9.05pm BST
21:0521:05
Leadsom says the only way we will ever get immigration under control is by voting leave.Leadsom says the only way we will ever get immigration under control is by voting leave.
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at 9.08pm BSTat 9.08pm BST