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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/jul/06/is-britain-letting-down-its-eu-nationals-live
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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
|---|---|
| Is Britain letting down its EU nationals? - live | Is Britain letting down its EU nationals? - live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 11.53am BST | |
| 11:53 | |
| One EU nationals dilemma: My career or my relationship | |
| Sarah Marsh | |
| Jay, 30 who moved to Oxford from Spain | |
| I came to the UK two years ago, holding a civil engineering degree, and since then I have been working, paying taxes, etc as any other Briton. I have never claimed a benefit. | |
| Also I met my partner here, but now I fear that soon I’ll have to choose between leaving for my career or staying for my relationship. | |
| I don’t feel welcome anymore. I have always been treated with kindness in Britain, but sometimes, when I speak to some Britons, I feel unwelcome. Politicians like Theresa May who say there are no guarantees EU nationals can stay here also make matters worse. It’s insulting. | |
| 11.43am BST | |
| 11:43 | |
| The Scottish government seems to be taking a different approach | |
| Related: Nicola Sturgeon acts to reassure EU nationals living in Scotland | |
| Updated | |
| at 11.46am BST | |
| 11.25am BST | |
| 11:25 | |
| EU nationals putting plans on hold after Brexit | |
| Sarah Marsh | |
| Many of those who have responded to the form so far have talked about putting plans on hold until there’s more certainty about what will happen. Here are some stories: | |
| I was planning on building a home here | |
| Josefina, 25, who moved from Sweden to LondonMy American husband is with me in Britain and we feel like our future is uncertain. I believe that most EU citizens will get to stay but I am worried about us recent arrivals: I arrived a week before the referendum. Will there be a cut-off date? How would an EU citizen/family member prove when they came here, after all a registration certificate is not necessary and takes a long time to get. | |
| I have given up already on one plan to expand my business | |
| Monika Koch, 50, SuffolkThe whole Brexit discussion has impacted me already: I am awfully nervous, permanently stressed and don’t sleep well anymore. | |
| I have given up already on one plan to expand my business locally. That part of business plan was at an advanced stage, and was supposed to be ready for the summer, but would have needed quite some investment right now. I don’t feel comfortable now investing in a longterm project in a place that doesn’t feel like home anymore. | |
| My youngest will start studying in autumn, is bilingual and is seriously considering moving back to Germany from her second year of studies. | |
| Updated | |
| at 11.46am BST | |
| 11.18am BST | 11.18am BST |
| 11:18 | 11:18 |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Some interesting responses so far to our anonymous form on this debate. Here are four reasons European citizens say they are worried: | |
| 1 Pensions | 1 Pensions |
| My biggest concern at the moment is around my pension and whether it will remain transferrable across the EU if I wanted to move out of the UK. | My biggest concern at the moment is around my pension and whether it will remain transferrable across the EU if I wanted to move out of the UK. |
| 2 Tax matters | 2 Tax matters |
| I am not sure I will be allowed to stay, or even if I will want to. Some changes may force me to move because I’d be better off (I’m especially worried about tax matters). I was going to buy a house, and now I think – what if the market crashes? What if I have to move back home too soon? My life is on pause. | I am not sure I will be allowed to stay, or even if I will want to. Some changes may force me to move because I’d be better off (I’m especially worried about tax matters). I was going to buy a house, and now I think – what if the market crashes? What if I have to move back home too soon? My life is on pause. |
| 3 Language tests | 3 Language tests |
| I am not too worried. I have lived here for seven years and am studying history at a degree level, which makes me confident in my ability to pass any language or Life in the UK tests. It is a different situation for my parents – they unfortunately work too much to be able to take a break, let alone take classes in English language, history and politics. They have tried it before, and it just wasn’t possible. It is a stressful time. | I am not too worried. I have lived here for seven years and am studying history at a degree level, which makes me confident in my ability to pass any language or Life in the UK tests. It is a different situation for my parents – they unfortunately work too much to be able to take a break, let alone take classes in English language, history and politics. They have tried it before, and it just wasn’t possible. It is a stressful time. |
| 4 Breaking up of families | 4 Breaking up of families |
| I have an English husband (equally devastated), two dual-nationality children. I have rarely felt foreign in the UK, it became home as soon as I arrived in 2000. Now what? Residence permit, work permit, possible expulsion if they extend the £35,000 threshold to EU nationals. And if we moved to France, my husband would have massive hassle for being non-EU. | I have an English husband (equally devastated), two dual-nationality children. I have rarely felt foreign in the UK, it became home as soon as I arrived in 2000. Now what? Residence permit, work permit, possible expulsion if they extend the £35,000 threshold to EU nationals. And if we moved to France, my husband would have massive hassle for being non-EU. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 11.27am BST | |
| 11.01am BST | 11.01am BST |
| 11:01 | 11:01 |
| Children are also affected by this uncertainty, as highlighted in the article below: | |
| Related: Schoolchildren fearful about future since EU referendum, say heads | Related: Schoolchildren fearful about future since EU referendum, say heads |
| Very keen to hear how parents are coping with this, and how the government could help. With so much uncertainty, what can you tell your children? Just some food for thought – we can go into this in more depth when the discussion begins. | |
| Updated | |
| at 11.28am BST | |
| 10.49am BST | 10.49am BST |
| 10:49 | 10:49 |
| 'This isn't the England that I fell in love with': Europeans in the UK on Brexit | 'This isn't the England that I fell in love with': Europeans in the UK on Brexit |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| After Brexit, the Guardian published a call-out asking European immigrants for a response, and we received over 200 by lunchtime. Many expressed their devastation at the news, saying that they now feel their position in Britain is very uncertain. | After Brexit, the Guardian published a call-out asking European immigrants for a response, and we received over 200 by lunchtime. Many expressed their devastation at the news, saying that they now feel their position in Britain is very uncertain. |
| Monika Leissle, 42: My home is here, so what do I do now? | Monika Leissle, 42: My home is here, so what do I do now? |
| From Germany/France to Hillingdon | From Germany/France to Hillingdon |
| I am disappointed, devastated and unsure of how to move forward now. I came to England 20 years ago, feeling as though I didn’t fit in in Germany or France. Britain became my home, not the one I was born in, but the one I chose. I have never felt unwelcome. I cherished the values Britain used to stand for and was proud to live here. I have never claimed any benefits and have happily worked and contributed to the economy. However, since the EU referendum debate started, I have heard that migrants are squeezing English people out of their jobs. I have certainly never done that. I have just worked hard to get where I am. Now, for the first time in many years I do not feel as if I am welcome here, and it makes me very sad. It is not a matter of saying, “OK I will go back home” because my home is here, so what do I do now? | |
| I do not know. My partner and I worry what will happen if we lose our jobs. Will we need to apply for permits to work and stay here? What impact will it have on our NHS contributions? On our pensions? I was so happy to see that London voted mainly for remain. That is a beacon of light, and thank you Scotland as well. | I do not know. My partner and I worry what will happen if we lose our jobs. Will we need to apply for permits to work and stay here? What impact will it have on our NHS contributions? On our pensions? I was so happy to see that London voted mainly for remain. That is a beacon of light, and thank you Scotland as well. |
| Kristina Stromberg, 42: This is not the England that I fell in love with | Kristina Stromberg, 42: This is not the England that I fell in love with |
| From Sweden to London | From Sweden to London |
| I am deeply saddened about Brexit – I saw Britain as a strong country that would not quit. I believed it was a team player, a country with warm and open-minded people. This morning I was proved wrong. This decision will have a huge impact on me personally. I have lived here since 1993. My daughter, who is 13, has a British father – will we both have to apply for dual citizenship? This process is long, as we first have to apply for proof of residence. I will also have to sit the Life in the UK test, which is expensive. Not knowing what is going to happen kept me up the night before the referendum result. For the first time ever, I do not feel welcome in the UK. I experienced racism in the days leading up to the referendum, and I feel much more aware that I am a foreigner. I don’t feel comfortable talking in my native tongue in public anymore. It feels as if I am no longer wanted here, and that is horrible. I have lived here for over half my life, but this is not the England that I fell in love with. I believe that the referendum should never have been held. To let the general public make this decision, many of whom don’t even know what the EU stands for, was a fatal mistake. I will never see Britain in the same light again. | |
| Przemek, 32: My world hasn’t collapsed due to the UK leaving the EU | Przemek, 32: My world hasn’t collapsed due to the UK leaving the EU |
| From Poland to London | From Poland to London |
| It may come as a surprise but I was backing leave. Personally, I believe that the UK is a great and strong country and although there will be some difficult conversations to have in the future with the European Union I stay optimistic. It is good to be in control of your own budget, law-making policies and borders. I don’t believe in a one-size-fits-all approach. I have also observed the lack of flexibility of the EU in striking the right deal for the British people. This may be an extremely emotional time for immigrants and some Brits who voted remain but I think we should stay calm. | It may come as a surprise but I was backing leave. Personally, I believe that the UK is a great and strong country and although there will be some difficult conversations to have in the future with the European Union I stay optimistic. It is good to be in control of your own budget, law-making policies and borders. I don’t believe in a one-size-fits-all approach. I have also observed the lack of flexibility of the EU in striking the right deal for the British people. This may be an extremely emotional time for immigrants and some Brits who voted remain but I think we should stay calm. |
| I am sure that I personally won’t be affected much by this decision. I will be able to work in the UK and travel to the EU freely. Not much will change for me personally. If you are a specialist in your field you will find employment anywhere. | I am sure that I personally won’t be affected much by this decision. I will be able to work in the UK and travel to the EU freely. Not much will change for me personally. If you are a specialist in your field you will find employment anywhere. |
| My world hasn’t collapsed due to the UK leaving the EU. My friends are still my friends, I have got my job and my flat. I have personally never wondered whether I am welcome or not in the UK. I came here, got a job and started paying taxes. That’s it. I am not overly attached to London or the UK and have never treated it as my home. That doesn’t mean that I don’t respect this country or feel part of it. Even now. | |
| Aleksi Saikkonen, 28: I hope that Scotland gains independence so I could live there | Aleksi Saikkonen, 28: I hope that Scotland gains independence so I could live there |
| From Finland to London | From Finland to London |
| I have lived in London for almost a year and came over to study as a postgraduate student and to work in the arts. I am very sad and surprised by the news. This will have a negative impact – I don’t understand how it benefits anyone. I have tried to understand the views of people who worry about the EU and immigration, but surely plunging the country into a new recession will do more harm to them and their benefits? | I have lived in London for almost a year and came over to study as a postgraduate student and to work in the arts. I am very sad and surprised by the news. This will have a negative impact – I don’t understand how it benefits anyone. I have tried to understand the views of people who worry about the EU and immigration, but surely plunging the country into a new recession will do more harm to them and their benefits? |
| I am also worried about employers’ views on hiring EU citizens now that everything is so uncertain. I can imagine that some businesses won’t want to hire someone to a permanent role if they can’t guarantee they will be living in the country five years from now. I came here to build a career and was doing pretty well in Finland. I don’t want to have to switch countries every two years. | I am also worried about employers’ views on hiring EU citizens now that everything is so uncertain. I can imagine that some businesses won’t want to hire someone to a permanent role if they can’t guarantee they will be living in the country five years from now. I came here to build a career and was doing pretty well in Finland. I don’t want to have to switch countries every two years. |
| I am worried about the impact this will have on the creative and arts sector. Many people are freelancers who have fixed-term jobs. If the UK decide only people earning more than £30,000 per annum can stay, then freelancers will struggle. | I am worried about the impact this will have on the creative and arts sector. Many people are freelancers who have fixed-term jobs. If the UK decide only people earning more than £30,000 per annum can stay, then freelancers will struggle. |
| I am also worried about EU citizens in UK universities who planned to forge a career here. It’s unfair that they have paid for education in this country but now they will be expected to leave. I have always felt welcome in London and still do. I do not feel welcome elsewhere in England, however. I sincerely hope that Scotland gains independence as I could very easily see myself living there. | I am also worried about EU citizens in UK universities who planned to forge a career here. It’s unfair that they have paid for education in this country but now they will be expected to leave. I have always felt welcome in London and still do. I do not feel welcome elsewhere in England, however. I sincerely hope that Scotland gains independence as I could very easily see myself living there. |
| Ewelina Lason, 36: I feel as if I have been painted in the worst light | Ewelina Lason, 36: I feel as if I have been painted in the worst light |
| From Poland to Worcester | From Poland to Worcester |
| I work for a council in the UK, and also promote bands. I think I will lose my right to work, perhaps get deported following the referendum. Maybe I will never own a house, or have a decent paid job. Maybe I will be an outcast and drifter all my life now – who knows? I don’t really want to move again after so many years abroad. It was hard to make it in Poland, then in Malta (where I moved next) – there were all sorts of issues, such as me not being able to buy a house. I was hoping to simply work and contribute to another country. Now I can’t see my future at all. I feel scared, as if I have been taken hostage and painted in the worst light. I fear for the safety of myself and Europe. What will happen now to the music industry? Will British artists need visas? Will the arts sector diminish? Also I feel as if all EU migrants have been left without a voice. I feel like marching in London to show that I am a human and not a monster. | I work for a council in the UK, and also promote bands. I think I will lose my right to work, perhaps get deported following the referendum. Maybe I will never own a house, or have a decent paid job. Maybe I will be an outcast and drifter all my life now – who knows? I don’t really want to move again after so many years abroad. It was hard to make it in Poland, then in Malta (where I moved next) – there were all sorts of issues, such as me not being able to buy a house. I was hoping to simply work and contribute to another country. Now I can’t see my future at all. I feel scared, as if I have been taken hostage and painted in the worst light. I fear for the safety of myself and Europe. What will happen now to the music industry? Will British artists need visas? Will the arts sector diminish? Also I feel as if all EU migrants have been left without a voice. I feel like marching in London to show that I am a human and not a monster. |
| Meri Pentikainen, 30: Britain has left a small table to join a much bigger table | Meri Pentikainen, 30: Britain has left a small table to join a much bigger table |
| From Finland to London | From Finland to London |
| I’m happy about it. You have left a small table to join a much bigger table, to put it in terms that have been bandied about so much. I’m frustrated that remain voters made it a question of unity with Europe, when it’s a question of union with a political organisation. People have cooperated with other nations since forever, moved abroad, travelled and married people from other countries. The EU is a relatively new invention and not being a member won’t stop you from engaging with Europe. | I’m happy about it. You have left a small table to join a much bigger table, to put it in terms that have been bandied about so much. I’m frustrated that remain voters made it a question of unity with Europe, when it’s a question of union with a political organisation. People have cooperated with other nations since forever, moved abroad, travelled and married people from other countries. The EU is a relatively new invention and not being a member won’t stop you from engaging with Europe. |
| I expect the impact on me will be minimal. I may have to deal with some red tape, but as far as my job and ability to stay goes, I don’t believe they will be affected. | I expect the impact on me will be minimal. I may have to deal with some red tape, but as far as my job and ability to stay goes, I don’t believe they will be affected. |
| I’ve been most unsettled by how emotionally people have taken to this issue. Under normal circumstances nobody gives two whits about the EU, but in the past few months it has become something that people tie their identities to. For example, one of my friends said that if there are leave voters in his Facebook friends they shouldn’t talk to him any more, because they have destroyed everything he believes in. That’s verbatim. I don’t know what to make of that. | I’ve been most unsettled by how emotionally people have taken to this issue. Under normal circumstances nobody gives two whits about the EU, but in the past few months it has become something that people tie their identities to. For example, one of my friends said that if there are leave voters in his Facebook friends they shouldn’t talk to him any more, because they have destroyed everything he believes in. That’s verbatim. I don’t know what to make of that. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 11.31am BST | |
| 10.37am BST | 10.37am BST |
| 10:37 | 10:37 |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| For those who want to add to the debate anonymously, please share views via this form. Would be great to get some comments in ahead of the discussion at noon. | For those who want to add to the debate anonymously, please share views via this form. Would be great to get some comments in ahead of the discussion at noon. |
| 10.33am BST | 10.33am BST |
| 10:33 | 10:33 |
| Welcome to the debate | Welcome to the debate |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| EU citizens living in Britain are feeling increasingly uncertain about their future after Brexit. | EU citizens living in Britain are feeling increasingly uncertain about their future after Brexit. |
| So, just to recap (in the highly unlikely event that you missed it), question marks over citizenship come after a European Union referendum in which the UK voted to leave the bloc. | So, just to recap (in the highly unlikely event that you missed it), question marks over citizenship come after a European Union referendum in which the UK voted to leave the bloc. |
| After the result – and during his resignation speech – David Cameron said the status of EU nationals in the UK would not change while negotiations over Britain’s future relationship with the EU were live. | After the result – and during his resignation speech – David Cameron said the status of EU nationals in the UK would not change while negotiations over Britain’s future relationship with the EU were live. |
| However, since then home secretary Theresa May – who has just won the first round of votes in the Conservative party leadership contest – said she could not guarantee the position of EU citizens living in the UK until Brexit negotiations were finalised. | |
| Related: Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens living in UK can stay | Related: Government refuses to guarantee EU citizens living in UK can stay |
| The foreign secretary Philip Hammond echoed this saying that although it was unlikely EU nationals would be asked to leave, there can be no full guarantees. Speaking to the BBC, he said: “You can’t say anything until we have had the negotiation because clearly this has to be a bilateral agreement.” | The foreign secretary Philip Hammond echoed this saying that although it was unlikely EU nationals would be asked to leave, there can be no full guarantees. Speaking to the BBC, he said: “You can’t say anything until we have had the negotiation because clearly this has to be a bilateral agreement.” |
| This stance has been criticised by MPs who say people “are not bargaining chips”. Tory MP and Brexit backer, Anne Main, said: “Nobody on the official Leave campaign raised the prospect of sending people away and deporting people.” | This stance has been criticised by MPs who say people “are not bargaining chips”. Tory MP and Brexit backer, Anne Main, said: “Nobody on the official Leave campaign raised the prospect of sending people away and deporting people.” |
| She added: “This has been raised by the home secretary and it is a catastrophic error of judgment for someone who wishes to lead this country to even suggest those people who are here legally, working with families and settled, should be even part of the negotiations.” | She added: “This has been raised by the home secretary and it is a catastrophic error of judgment for someone who wishes to lead this country to even suggest those people who are here legally, working with families and settled, should be even part of the negotiations.” |
| Conservative leadership contender Andrea Leadsom also said that the future of EU nationals living in the UK should be guaranteed. | Conservative leadership contender Andrea Leadsom also said that the future of EU nationals living in the UK should be guaranteed. |
| How do you feel about this? Are European nationals here being let down? What about Brits abroad? Should there be more guarantees? Join us from 12pm to 2pm today to discuss. | How do you feel about this? Are European nationals here being let down? What about Brits abroad? Should there be more guarantees? Join us from 12pm to 2pm today to discuss. |
| Updated | |
| at 11.32am BST |