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| Trump praises Putin again as he and Clinton face foreign policy questions – as it happened | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 4.29am BST | |
| 04:29 | |
| I’m winding down this live coverage now, but you can find our wrap of who said what and why over here. | |
| Thanks for reading. The campaign live blog will be back with the US morning. | |
| And you can read Spencer Ackerman’s analysis here: | |
| Updated | |
| at 4.33am BST | |
| 4.21am BST | |
| 04:21 | |
| So, we know why Reince Priebus thinks Clinton proved herself “not fit to be commander-in-chief”. Here’s why he thinks the Republican candidate is: | |
| .@realDonaldTrump promised peace through strength & will make vigilance & toughness the cornerstone of his presidency #NBCNewsForum | |
| Updated | |
| at 4.21am BST | |
| 4.07am BST | 4.07am BST |
| 04:07 | 04:07 |
| Spencer Ackerman | Spencer Ackerman |
| At NBC News’ commander-in-chief forum, Trump ordered off his familiar campaign menu of word salads. He lied about opposing the Iraq war, criticized Obama’s 2011 withdrawal and repeated his advocacy of stealing Iraq’s oil – a measure he evidently believes would require a minimal force presence, despite the certainty that the well-armed locals might have a problem with their principal source of wealth being plundered by a foreign power. | At NBC News’ commander-in-chief forum, Trump ordered off his familiar campaign menu of word salads. He lied about opposing the Iraq war, criticized Obama’s 2011 withdrawal and repeated his advocacy of stealing Iraq’s oil – a measure he evidently believes would require a minimal force presence, despite the certainty that the well-armed locals might have a problem with their principal source of wealth being plundered by a foreign power. |
| Speaking before an audience of veterans, Trump unexpectedly attacked the current generation of generals and flag officers. While previously Trump had said he knew better than the generals about fighting Islamic State, this time he intimated that he’d get “different generals” – a habit more typical of caudillos than American presidents. | Speaking before an audience of veterans, Trump unexpectedly attacked the current generation of generals and flag officers. While previously Trump had said he knew better than the generals about fighting Islamic State, this time he intimated that he’d get “different generals” – a habit more typical of caudillos than American presidents. |
| He followed up by saying his ultimate plan to defeat Isis would be some parts of his still-unspecified plan, and some parts of his unspecified generals’ unspecified plan. He waved away his lack of specifics for a war in which 5,000 US troops are currently serving as not wishing to “broadcast” his plans to the enemy. | He followed up by saying his ultimate plan to defeat Isis would be some parts of his still-unspecified plan, and some parts of his unspecified generals’ unspecified plan. He waved away his lack of specifics for a war in which 5,000 US troops are currently serving as not wishing to “broadcast” his plans to the enemy. |
| He interrupted a veteran’s question about veterans’ suicide rates after she gave the correct number, 20 per day, so he could give an incorrect one, 22. Trump fumbled through a question about redressing sexual assault against female service members – something he once tweeted was the inevitable result of mixed service, a point he defended on Wednesday – by arguing the military needed to set up internal courts, as if the military does not already have its own well-established justice system. | He interrupted a veteran’s question about veterans’ suicide rates after she gave the correct number, 20 per day, so he could give an incorrect one, 22. Trump fumbled through a question about redressing sexual assault against female service members – something he once tweeted was the inevitable result of mixed service, a point he defended on Wednesday – by arguing the military needed to set up internal courts, as if the military does not already have its own well-established justice system. |
| Trump’s reversion to his typical ignorance and certitude obscured a poor showing from his opponent. Hillary Clinton spent her preceding half-hour grilling defending herself on her lax handling of classified information, a situation that a former Navy lieutenant in the audience correctly observed would spell doom for a low-ranking service member. | Trump’s reversion to his typical ignorance and certitude obscured a poor showing from his opponent. Hillary Clinton spent her preceding half-hour grilling defending herself on her lax handling of classified information, a situation that a former Navy lieutenant in the audience correctly observed would spell doom for a low-ranking service member. |
| She acknowledged her vote for the Iraq war was a “mistake” and gestured in the direction of the same for her advocacy of the 2011 Libya war, but waved it away by pointing out Trump’s support for the same disastrous interventions, a baffling decision for a candidate whose central pitch is that Trump is uniquely unqualified to be president. | She acknowledged her vote for the Iraq war was a “mistake” and gestured in the direction of the same for her advocacy of the 2011 Libya war, but waved it away by pointing out Trump’s support for the same disastrous interventions, a baffling decision for a candidate whose central pitch is that Trump is uniquely unqualified to be president. |
| To reassure a progressive veteran in the audience Clinton offered that she would treat the use of force as a “last resort”. | To reassure a progressive veteran in the audience Clinton offered that she would treat the use of force as a “last resort”. |
| “We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again,” Clinton said, as if there were not this minute thousands of them there. | “We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again,” Clinton said, as if there were not this minute thousands of them there. |
| 3.53am BST | 3.53am BST |
| 03:53 | 03:53 |
| Colin Powell's advice to Clinton on using personal email | Colin Powell's advice to Clinton on using personal email |
| Although it didn’t directly come up in the forum on Wednesday evening, this is intriguing reading: a 2009 email exchange between Hillary Clinton and former secretary of state Colin Powell in which she asks for – and he gives – advice on using her Blackberry in the state department. | Although it didn’t directly come up in the forum on Wednesday evening, this is intriguing reading: a 2009 email exchange between Hillary Clinton and former secretary of state Colin Powell in which she asks for – and he gives – advice on using her Blackberry in the state department. |
| The full exchange is here, released by Deomcratic Rep. Elijah Cummings via the House oversight committee, but here’s a snippet of Powell’s email: | The full exchange is here, released by Deomcratic Rep. Elijah Cummings via the House oversight committee, but here’s a snippet of Powell’s email: |
| I didn’t have a BlackBerry. What I did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line (sounds ancient.) So I could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department servers. I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders and some of the senior folks in the Department on their personal email accounts. I did the same thing on the road in hotels. | I didn’t have a BlackBerry. What I did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line (sounds ancient.) So I could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department servers. I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders and some of the senior folks in the Department on their personal email accounts. I did the same thing on the road in hotels. |
| Now, the real issue had to do with PDAs, as we called them a few years ago before BlackBerry became a noun. And the issue was DS would not allow them into the secure spaces, especially up your way. When I asked why not they gave me all kinds of nonsense about how they gave out signals and could be read by spies, etc. Same reason they tried to keep mobile phones out of the suite. I had numerous meetings with them. We even opened one up for them to try to explain to me why it was more dangerous than say, a remote control for one of the many tvs in the suite. Or something embedded in my shoe heel. They never satisfied me and NSA/CIA wouldn’t back off. So, we just went about our business and stopped asking. I had an ancient version of a PDA and used it. In general, the suite was so sealed that it is hard to get signals in or out wirelessly. | Now, the real issue had to do with PDAs, as we called them a few years ago before BlackBerry became a noun. And the issue was DS would not allow them into the secure spaces, especially up your way. When I asked why not they gave me all kinds of nonsense about how they gave out signals and could be read by spies, etc. Same reason they tried to keep mobile phones out of the suite. I had numerous meetings with them. We even opened one up for them to try to explain to me why it was more dangerous than say, a remote control for one of the many tvs in the suite. Or something embedded in my shoe heel. They never satisfied me and NSA/CIA wouldn’t back off. So, we just went about our business and stopped asking. I had an ancient version of a PDA and used it. In general, the suite was so sealed that it is hard to get signals in or out wirelessly. |
| However, there is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it it government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and subject to the law. Reading about the President’s BB rules this morning, it sounds like it won’t be as useful as it used to be. Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data. | However, there is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it it government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and subject to the law. Reading about the President’s BB rules this morning, it sounds like it won’t be as useful as it used to be. Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data. |
| 3.42am BST | 3.42am BST |
| 03:42 | 03:42 |
| For those now wondering when we can watch the two candidates go head to head – on the same stage, at the same time, presumably answering something like the same questions – here’s the schedule: | For those now wondering when we can watch the two candidates go head to head – on the same stage, at the same time, presumably answering something like the same questions – here’s the schedule: |
| There’s also a vice-presidential debate between Mike Pence and Tim Kaine: | There’s also a vice-presidential debate between Mike Pence and Tim Kaine: |
| 3.29am BST | 3.29am BST |
| 03:29 | 03:29 |
| Ben Jacobs and Sabrina Siddiqui were watching the forum for Guardian US tonight and send this roundup: | Ben Jacobs and Sabrina Siddiqui were watching the forum for Guardian US tonight and send this roundup: |
| Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton struck a pointed contrast on deploying ground troops to Iraq in the first televised forum of the two presidential nominees on Wednesday. | Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton struck a pointed contrast on deploying ground troops to Iraq in the first televised forum of the two presidential nominees on Wednesday. |
| During the town hall, held by NBC News and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Clinton pledged that the US was “not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we are not putting ground troops into Syria” – while Trump disagreed. | During the town hall, held by NBC News and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Clinton pledged that the US was “not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we are not putting ground troops into Syria” – while Trump disagreed. |
| The Republican nominee, who has long talked about the importance of “taking the oil” in the Middle East, said of Iraq: “We would leave a certain group behind and they would take the various sections where they have the oil.” | The Republican nominee, who has long talked about the importance of “taking the oil” in the Middle East, said of Iraq: “We would leave a certain group behind and they would take the various sections where they have the oil.” |
| The United States currently has roughly 5,000 troops deployed in Iraq, mostly as official non-combat advisers for the Iraqi military, along with special operations forces who conduct and assist in raids against Islamic State. Navy and Air Force pilots also participate daily in air attacks on the terrorist group. | The United States currently has roughly 5,000 troops deployed in Iraq, mostly as official non-combat advisers for the Iraqi military, along with special operations forces who conduct and assist in raids against Islamic State. Navy and Air Force pilots also participate daily in air attacks on the terrorist group. |
| Trump also furthered his so-called “bromance” with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, whom he repeatedly praised and cast as a better leader than Barack Obama. In particular, Trump cited Putin’s 82% approval rating as a sign of the Russian leader’s acumen. Russia blacklisted the Levada Center, the country’s leading independent pollster, two days ago as “a foreign agent”. | Trump also furthered his so-called “bromance” with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, whom he repeatedly praised and cast as a better leader than Barack Obama. In particular, Trump cited Putin’s 82% approval rating as a sign of the Russian leader’s acumen. Russia blacklisted the Levada Center, the country’s leading independent pollster, two days ago as “a foreign agent”. |
| Trump nonetheless went on to characterize his relationship with Putin as mutually beneficial. “If he says great things about me, I’m gonna say great things about him,” Trump said. “I think when he calls me brilliant, I’ll take the compliment. OK?” | Trump nonetheless went on to characterize his relationship with Putin as mutually beneficial. “If he says great things about me, I’m gonna say great things about him,” Trump said. “I think when he calls me brilliant, I’ll take the compliment. OK?” |
| Clinton, by contrast, sought to re-emphasize her foreign policy expertise while defending her legacy while serving as Obama’s secretary of state. | Clinton, by contrast, sought to re-emphasize her foreign policy expertise while defending her legacy while serving as Obama’s secretary of state. |
| “I took responsibility for my decision,” Clinton said of her vote for the Iraq War. “My opponent has refused to take responsibility for his support.” | “I took responsibility for my decision,” Clinton said of her vote for the Iraq War. “My opponent has refused to take responsibility for his support.” |
| Indeed, Trump falsely stated that he had been against the war all along – a claim that went unchallenged by NBC moderator Matt Lauer. Clinton also pointed out there was “no difference” between her position on Libya and that of Trump. | Indeed, Trump falsely stated that he had been against the war all along – a claim that went unchallenged by NBC moderator Matt Lauer. Clinton also pointed out there was “no difference” between her position on Libya and that of Trump. |
| “He’s on record extensively supporting intervention in Libya,” she said. | “He’s on record extensively supporting intervention in Libya,” she said. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.33am BST | at 3.33am BST |
| 3.08am BST | 3.08am BST |
| 03:08 | 03:08 |
| Claire Phipps here picking up the post-forum baton from Scott Bixby. | Claire Phipps here picking up the post-forum baton from Scott Bixby. |
| There is some bafflement about Trump’s response to a questioner who said his daughter had been deterred from joining the armed forces after seeing the statistics on sexual assault. | There is some bafflement about Trump’s response to a questioner who said his daughter had been deterred from joining the armed forces after seeing the statistics on sexual assault. |
| At first, Trump did seem aware that the US military does have its own court system: | At first, Trump did seem aware that the US military does have its own court system: |
| It’s a massive problem. The numbers are staggering, hard to believe, even. But we’re going to have to run it very tight. I at the same time want to keep the court system within the military. I don’t think it should be outside of the military. | It’s a massive problem. The numbers are staggering, hard to believe, even. But we’re going to have to run it very tight. I at the same time want to keep the court system within the military. I don’t think it should be outside of the military. |
| But immediately afterwards, he didn’t seem so sure: | But immediately afterwards, he didn’t seem so sure: |
| We have to do something about that problem. And the best thing we can do is set up a court system within the military. Right now, the court system practically doesn’t exist. It takes too long. | We have to do something about that problem. And the best thing we can do is set up a court system within the military. Right now, the court system practically doesn’t exist. It takes too long. |
| And on this tweet from 2013, in which Trump appeared to say that sexual assault was an inevitable result of men and women being in the same place: | And on this tweet from 2013, in which Trump appeared to say that sexual assault was an inevitable result of men and women being in the same place: |
| 26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together? | 26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together? |
| Trump had this to say: | Trump had this to say: |
| Well, it is … it is … it is a correct tweet. | Well, it is … it is … it is a correct tweet. |
| 2.58am BST | 2.58am BST |
| 02:58 | 02:58 |
| Megyn Kelly, on Reince Priebus’ “smile” exhortation to Hillary Clinton: | Megyn Kelly, on Reince Priebus’ “smile” exhortation to Hillary Clinton: |
| Has someone ever said to you, ‘smile!’ Isn’t it irritating? Makes you want to do the opposite. | Has someone ever said to you, ‘smile!’ Isn’t it irritating? Makes you want to do the opposite. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.02am BST | at 3.02am BST |
| 2.56am BST | 2.56am BST |
| 02:56 | 02:56 |
| Rachael Frederick, the veteran who seemed frustrated by Donald Trump’s false correction of her question about suicide among veterans, told Rachel Maddow tonight that it “seemed to me like he wanted to blame it on access and mental health care” instead of on post-traumatic stress in US military communities. | Rachael Frederick, the veteran who seemed frustrated by Donald Trump’s false correction of her question about suicide among veterans, told Rachel Maddow tonight that it “seemed to me like he wanted to blame it on access and mental health care” instead of on post-traumatic stress in US military communities. |
| “We’re going to stigmatize the veterans who are suffering with mental health diseases?” she asked incredulously, pointing out that Trump’s answer included describing veterans in “tremendous, tremendous pain” who commit suicide. | “We’re going to stigmatize the veterans who are suffering with mental health diseases?” she asked incredulously, pointing out that Trump’s answer included describing veterans in “tremendous, tremendous pain” who commit suicide. |
| “I know many vets,” Frederick said, “who live with chronic pain every day, so I don’t think that’s the ’cause of veteran suicide.” | “I know many vets,” Frederick said, “who live with chronic pain every day, so I don’t think that’s the ’cause of veteran suicide.” |
| 2.44am BST | 2.44am BST |
| 02:44 | 02:44 |
| Hillary Clinton has responded to Reince Priebus’ request that she smile more when discussing topics like veteran suicide and the Libyan civil war: | Hillary Clinton has responded to Reince Priebus’ request that she smile more when discussing topics like veteran suicide and the Libyan civil war: |
| Actually, that’s just what taking the office of President seriously looks like. https://t.co/Pyn92mesom | Actually, that’s just what taking the office of President seriously looks like. https://t.co/Pyn92mesom |