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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/sep/30/week-news-labour-defeat-tories-tube-chat-join-our-live-look-week
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| What makes a boss horrible? Join our live look at the week for this and more | What makes a boss horrible? Join our live look at the week for this and more |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 1.56pm BST | |
| 13:56 | |
| Where are all the women speakers? | |
| Frances Ryan | |
| As conference season got into its stride, I was caught (read: depressed) by the news that male speakers still outnumber women by two to one on political panels. Women in Public Affairs (WiPA) made the finding after examining the gender ratios at Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat conferences last year. | |
| Based on the coverage this week, you’d be forgiven for thinking Labour’s conference had been all male. Headlines featured man after man, while some analysis of the week managed to feature no women at all (a dead male monarch, however, did warrant a mention). | |
| Let’s take some comfort from Hillary Clinton who, on the other side of the Atlantic, gave us a masterclass in public speaking as a man’s voice tried to drown her out. (Best ignore the political pundits who thought they should focus on whether or not she was smiling.) | |
| Who told Hillary Clinton to keep smiling like she’s at her granddaughter’s birthday party? | |
| 1.53pm BST | |
| 13:53 | |
| You’re still talking politics below the line. | |
| The problem for me as a voter is that both parties appeal to me for different reasons, I've voted both ways all my life, generally more labour than tory. But at the moment, I'd vote Tory because I'm not agreeing with labour on a lot of issues & I feel harassed by the tory-bashing. I don't like voting because of a party leader but jeremy & those around him don't appeal to me either. | |
| I think this will be one of their problems come election time if things don't change - they paint anything tory as evil (despite tories winning more votes than labour) & they need tory votes to win anything. If they could just stop the tory-bashing & actually get on with policy, they might get a better message across the divide. They need to start saying how they are similar, not how they are different (although this will alienate momentum et al.) | |
| What I really fear though is all those right-leaning labour voters, who tend to be socially right-wing, voting UKIP. UKIP are already on-course to win more votes despite the referendum & any equivocation from the tories or labour (which has already happened to a greater extent) on leaving EU & they'll push more & more to UKIP. Lib dems are a non-starter as corbyn has sapped any hard-left votes that may have gone their way. That leaves UKIP as the 3rd largest party in the HoC (future HoL?!) & they'll likely vote tory on many issues in the house. Overall, I think the future is grim-dark for labour unless they change tactics soon. | |
| Labour can't beat the Tories, but the Tories could conspire to lose. Brexit is going to be a tortuous path for May as she tries to hold her party together. | |
| Tricky for Labour too to square the immigration fearing working class element of their support with the liberal metropolitans that make up the rest of their vote. It's hard to see how that circle can be squared. | |
| But it's May who has to run the gauntlet first, Labour can avoid committing to a position and wait and see how things go for her before announcing their own policies. | |
| 1.27pm BST | 1.27pm BST |
| 13:27 | 13:27 |
| Readers really hate their bosses | Readers really hate their bosses |
| Matthew Holmes | Matthew Holmes |
| I enjoyed reading the comments on this bitingly sarcastic article that describes the type of nightmare boss that seemed all too familiar to many of you. It came with a warning that some of you might recognise yourselves ... but it was your workplace leaders past and present that got the conversation going. | |
| ‘A local government micro-management manual’ | ‘A local government micro-management manual’ |
| This reads like a local government micro-management manual. Only thing missing is the promotion of stupids for their loyalty. | This reads like a local government micro-management manual. Only thing missing is the promotion of stupids for their loyalty. |
| ‘The worst boss is one who is a liar’ | ‘The worst boss is one who is a liar’ |
| I think the worst boss is one who is a liar. | I think the worst boss is one who is a liar. |
| That has been my full-on worst experience. He just lied and lied - you never knew whether something he said was true or completely devoid of any reality (not just exaggerated or slightly deviated but completely totally without any foundation of fact or basis). | That has been my full-on worst experience. He just lied and lied - you never knew whether something he said was true or completely devoid of any reality (not just exaggerated or slightly deviated but completely totally without any foundation of fact or basis). |
| He would lie about huge things and about small things. He would take credit (yes that makes sense - you can see the point in doing that at least) but then he would randomly just lie about something that he said either had been said or done, or hadn't been said or done --- where there was no point to it. He didn't get any advantage from so doing - except I suppose to wrong foot others. | He would lie about huge things and about small things. He would take credit (yes that makes sense - you can see the point in doing that at least) but then he would randomly just lie about something that he said either had been said or done, or hadn't been said or done --- where there was no point to it. He didn't get any advantage from so doing - except I suppose to wrong foot others. |
| Worst worst worst - terrible person. | Worst worst worst - terrible person. |
| He was also a control freak and would get really furiously angry if he thought someone wasn't fully in agreement with him. And you would have thought that all those traits would damage him and his career but it just didn't really seem to (I left obviously) but he seems to have continued on through life - lying and distorting and screaming at people (NO, he is not Donald Trump!) perfectly successfully in some ways. | He was also a control freak and would get really furiously angry if he thought someone wasn't fully in agreement with him. And you would have thought that all those traits would damage him and his career but it just didn't really seem to (I left obviously) but he seems to have continued on through life - lying and distorting and screaming at people (NO, he is not Donald Trump!) perfectly successfully in some ways. |
| Terrible, terrible, terrible person but could really suck up to someone when he wanted and put on this super-friendly facade. Ugh! Never again would I ever want to have to work in the same environment as someone like that. | Terrible, terrible, terrible person but could really suck up to someone when he wanted and put on this super-friendly facade. Ugh! Never again would I ever want to have to work in the same environment as someone like that. |
| ‘I am spending this evening applying for another job’ | ‘I am spending this evening applying for another job’ |
| "8. Treat people as if they’re idiots - Manage your employees with 10+ years’ experience with the same scrutiny you would apply to your interns:My boss called me out on Friday, in front of parents, staff, pupils - booming that two young pupils should not have been walking ahead of me to their classroom, but behind me - then ordered me to go back to the door with them and do it again. I am 46 years old. I am also spending this evening applying for another job. | "8. Treat people as if they’re idiots - Manage your employees with 10+ years’ experience with the same scrutiny you would apply to your interns:My boss called me out on Friday, in front of parents, staff, pupils - booming that two young pupils should not have been walking ahead of me to their classroom, but behind me - then ordered me to go back to the door with them and do it again. I am 46 years old. I am also spending this evening applying for another job. |
| Do click on the links and get involved – do you have a nightmare boss? Did you recognise yourself in there? | Do click on the links and get involved – do you have a nightmare boss? Did you recognise yourself in there? |
| Updated | |
| at 1.41pm BST | |
| 1.15pm BST | 1.15pm BST |
| 13:15 | 13:15 |
| Is this the answer? | Is this the answer? |
| To win, Labour need to attract Basildon man/woman. Corbyn ain't gonna do it, bruv. | To win, Labour need to attract Basildon man/woman. Corbyn ain't gonna do it, bruv. |
| 12.54pm BST | 12.54pm BST |
| 12:54 | 12:54 |
| Debate of the week: a look at whether Labour can win with Corbyn | Debate of the week: a look at whether Labour can win with Corbyn |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| We ran a discussion on Thursday about Labour’s chances of success under its current leader Jeremy Corbyn. We heard a variety of views on this (a few summarised below) and welcome more thoughts. | We ran a discussion on Thursday about Labour’s chances of success under its current leader Jeremy Corbyn. We heard a variety of views on this (a few summarised below) and welcome more thoughts. |
| The Guardian’s John Harris said: | The Guardian’s John Harris said: |
| The Labour party will not win the next general election, but that isn’t the right way of looking at the problem. Labour is in the midst of the same crisis as its sister social-democratic parties across Europe, with one twist: as evidenced by all those new members, it is also home to the kind of new, insurgent politics we’ve seen with Podemos in Spain, Syriza in Greece, the Bernie Sanders campaign in the US etc. Time spent this week at Momentum’s A World Transformed event in Liverpool reminded me that a great deal of Labour and the left’s future lies with some of the people involved (I’ve written a column about this, out later today), but a watershed moment is probably going to be a long time coming. | The Labour party will not win the next general election, but that isn’t the right way of looking at the problem. Labour is in the midst of the same crisis as its sister social-democratic parties across Europe, with one twist: as evidenced by all those new members, it is also home to the kind of new, insurgent politics we’ve seen with Podemos in Spain, Syriza in Greece, the Bernie Sanders campaign in the US etc. Time spent this week at Momentum’s A World Transformed event in Liverpool reminded me that a great deal of Labour and the left’s future lies with some of the people involved (I’ve written a column about this, out later today), but a watershed moment is probably going to be a long time coming. |
| Freelance journalist Abi Wilkinson said: | Freelance journalist Abi Wilkinson said: |
| I think there is hope. Corbyn’s conference speech was an attempt to reach out to his critics within Labour and many some to have responded in kind. There seems to be a growing awareness that different factions need to work together for the good of the party and the people it represents. | I think there is hope. Corbyn’s conference speech was an attempt to reach out to his critics within Labour and many some to have responded in kind. There seems to be a growing awareness that different factions need to work together for the good of the party and the people it represents. |
| One reader below the line even offered advice to Corbyn: | One reader below the line even offered advice to Corbyn: |
| Possible path to victory. 1. An electoral pact. The right win because they always vote together as one big monolith. Our turn. The scare of a small handful of Tories going over to UKIP was enough to panic Cameron into a Brexit referendum. I'm in a supposed Tory safe seat but the truth is that if you counted the Lib Dem and Labour vote together, we would comfortably win. That's repeated up and down the country. An electoral pact means not standing candidates against the most likely to win. It also means people can vote strategically yet maintain allegiance with the party of their conscience.2. Stand a Labour candidate in Northern Ireland to recover ground lost in Scotland3. Try and win over the 40% of non-voters.4. As far as immigration is concerned, it really isn't rocket science. Saying Labour will build 60k new council homes a year is great but it is also arbitrary. Labour should go a bit further and say "we will institute whatever policy is necessary and build however many homes are required to make sure that house and rent prices don't outstrip wages, and if we can't achieve that, we'll look to reduce immigration" | Possible path to victory. 1. An electoral pact. The right win because they always vote together as one big monolith. Our turn. The scare of a small handful of Tories going over to UKIP was enough to panic Cameron into a Brexit referendum. I'm in a supposed Tory safe seat but the truth is that if you counted the Lib Dem and Labour vote together, we would comfortably win. That's repeated up and down the country. An electoral pact means not standing candidates against the most likely to win. It also means people can vote strategically yet maintain allegiance with the party of their conscience.2. Stand a Labour candidate in Northern Ireland to recover ground lost in Scotland3. Try and win over the 40% of non-voters.4. As far as immigration is concerned, it really isn't rocket science. Saying Labour will build 60k new council homes a year is great but it is also arbitrary. Labour should go a bit further and say "we will institute whatever policy is necessary and build however many homes are required to make sure that house and rent prices don't outstrip wages, and if we can't achieve that, we'll look to reduce immigration" |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.55pm BST | at 12.55pm BST |
| 12.45pm BST | 12.45pm BST |
| 12:45 | 12:45 |
| Away from politics, you may have spotted the blue GuardianWitness link above. We’re inviting you to contribute to our latest photography assignment, which has so far resulted in this lovely gallery of readers’ images | Away from politics, you may have spotted the blue GuardianWitness link above. We’re inviting you to contribute to our latest photography assignment, which has so far resulted in this lovely gallery of readers’ images |
| 12.34pm BST | 12.34pm BST |
| 12:34 | 12:34 |
| Your views are starting to shape the conversation below the line. | Your views are starting to shape the conversation below the line. |
| Labour has to confront all the issues which lost it the 2010 and 2015 elections and are keeping people away from the party. A perceived economic incompetence, raising taxation, immigration, benefits abuse (no matter how small it may be it needs to be dealt with), and weak foreign/defence policies. | Labour has to confront all the issues which lost it the 2010 and 2015 elections and are keeping people away from the party. A perceived economic incompetence, raising taxation, immigration, benefits abuse (no matter how small it may be it needs to be dealt with), and weak foreign/defence policies. |
| These issues don't have to be dealt with by accepting all of the Tories arguments, but they have to be addressed. If you bury your head in the sand like Labour wish to do, they will lose again. | These issues don't have to be dealt with by accepting all of the Tories arguments, but they have to be addressed. If you bury your head in the sand like Labour wish to do, they will lose again. |
| how Labour can defeat the Tories | how Labour can defeat the Tories |
| By learning from the only Labour leader to defeat the Tories in the last 40 years? | By learning from the only Labour leader to defeat the Tories in the last 40 years? |
| Correct - a Socialist government is unelectable as there will never be a majority for that. | Correct - a Socialist government is unelectable as there will never be a majority for that. |
| Things will also change post Brexit and Westminister politics will matter a lot more since so many EU directives and laws will cease to apply. For example like renationalisation of railways, subsidising steel the industry (illegal under EU rules). | Things will also change post Brexit and Westminister politics will matter a lot more since so many EU directives and laws will cease to apply. For example like renationalisation of railways, subsidising steel the industry (illegal under EU rules). |
| The only way Labour can win is to oppose the Tories from the left and the right. Make a case for lower taxes, less red tape and get business and hard working people on your side. | The only way Labour can win is to oppose the Tories from the left and the right. Make a case for lower taxes, less red tape and get business and hard working people on your side. |
| This thread is a part of the problem - the whole focus is negative and on beating the Tories, when the message needs to be positive and how Labour can win. | This thread is a part of the problem - the whole focus is negative and on beating the Tories, when the message needs to be positive and how Labour can win. |
| Blair didn't win by telling everyone how shit things were because to most people things aren't that bad. | Blair didn't win by telling everyone how shit things were because to most people things aren't that bad. |
| So called progressive alliances are also a non starter. | So called progressive alliances are also a non starter. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.36pm BST | at 12.36pm BST |
| 12.25pm BST | 12.25pm BST |
| 12:25 | 12:25 |
| How can Labour defeat the Tories? A view from conference | How can Labour defeat the Tories? A view from conference |
| Hilary Wainwright | Hilary Wainwright |
| Hilary Wainwright wrote a piece this week from Labour conference headlined The new politics isn’t just protest – it’s about change from the ground up. Here she shares some more thoughts. | Hilary Wainwright wrote a piece this week from Labour conference headlined The new politics isn’t just protest – it’s about change from the ground up. Here she shares some more thoughts. |
| From participants to journalists, most people found that in Liverpool this week political life was at Momentum’s The World Transformed rather than the official Labour conference. I’d go further: the apparatus running the conference attempted to stifle the new life that Momentum’s diverse energy is infusing into the party. | From participants to journalists, most people found that in Liverpool this week political life was at Momentum’s The World Transformed rather than the official Labour conference. I’d go further: the apparatus running the conference attempted to stifle the new life that Momentum’s diverse energy is infusing into the party. |
| Party unity has always been an imperative prior to elections. The left has generally abided by this norm. The parliamentary right, it seems, has no such sense of obligation. It is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of electoral defeat. | Party unity has always been an imperative prior to elections. The left has generally abided by this norm. The parliamentary right, it seems, has no such sense of obligation. It is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of electoral defeat. |
| MPs who want to avoid the kamikaze logic of their colleagues should show that the left doesn’t have a monopoly on unity. It’s the only chance of defeating the Tories. | MPs who want to avoid the kamikaze logic of their colleagues should show that the left doesn’t have a monopoly on unity. It’s the only chance of defeating the Tories. |
| What do you think? Tell us in the comments. | What do you think? Tell us in the comments. |
| 12.14pm BST | 12.14pm BST |
| 12:14 | 12:14 |
| The week's most read: from the man who brought you Brexit to tube chat | The week's most read: from the man who brought you Brexit to tube chat |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Among our most-read this week was a letter from a man who hasn’t had sex with his wife for six years after she ignored his advice on weight loss. | Among our most-read this week was a letter from a man who hasn’t had sex with his wife for six years after she ignored his advice on weight loss. |
| Elsewhere, Stuart Heritage’s opinion article on owning his first home (and having buyer’s remorse) was popular with our readers. | Elsewhere, Stuart Heritage’s opinion article on owning his first home (and having buyer’s remorse) was popular with our readers. |
| There were also a lot of hits for the story about Sadiq Khan’s plans to launch an inquiry into into foreign property ownership. He told the Guardian he would carry out “the most thorough research on this matter ever undertaken” amid widespread concern over rising housing costs and gentrification. | There were also a lot of hits for the story about Sadiq Khan’s plans to launch an inquiry into into foreign property ownership. He told the Guardian he would carry out “the most thorough research on this matter ever undertaken” amid widespread concern over rising housing costs and gentrification. |
| Finally, everyone was keen to read about the man who brought us Brexit and tube chat badges, although not being completely well-received, have – ironically – got people talking. | Finally, everyone was keen to read about the man who brought us Brexit and tube chat badges, although not being completely well-received, have – ironically – got people talking. |
| 12.09pm BST | 12.09pm BST |
| 12:09 | 12:09 |
| Welcome to this week's social | Welcome to this week's social |
| Matthew Holmes | Matthew Holmes |
| Hello and welcome once again to Guardian Social, a place you’ve been coming back to for the last few weeks to discuss the week’s news and views while we hover about posting links, posing and responding to questions while generally keeping things moving. | |
| We’re open to suggestions and always willing to take the conversations in ways you want them to go, so get involved below the line and we’ll see you down there! | We’re open to suggestions and always willing to take the conversations in ways you want them to go, so get involved below the line and we’ll see you down there! |
| Updated | |
| at 1.34pm BST |