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| Northern Territory juvenile detention royal commission: Use of force 'routine' at Don Dale – live | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 4.58am BST | 4.58am BST |
| 04:58 | 04:58 |
| Lunch break summary | Lunch break summary |
| On the first morning of the royal commission into the protection and detention of children in the Northern Territory we’ve heard the opening address from senior counsel, and most of the questioning of the first witness, Megan Mitchell. | On the first morning of the royal commission into the protection and detention of children in the Northern Territory we’ve heard the opening address from senior counsel, and most of the questioning of the first witness, Megan Mitchell. |
| Mitchell is the national children’s commissioner for the Australian Human Rights Commission. | Mitchell is the national children’s commissioner for the Australian Human Rights Commission. |
| There was a lot of detail covered, and much of it centred around international treaties and conventions and Australia’s obligations. | There was a lot of detail covered, and much of it centred around international treaties and conventions and Australia’s obligations. |
| Here’s a quick summary of where we’re at. | Here’s a quick summary of where we’re at. |
| I’ll resume coverage in half an hour. | I’ll resume coverage in half an hour. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.59am BST | at 4.59am BST |
| 4.40am BST | 4.40am BST |
| 04:40 | 04:40 |
| The commission has adjourned for lunch. I’ll have a summary of the morning’s developments shortly. | The commission has adjourned for lunch. I’ll have a summary of the morning’s developments shortly. |
| 4.36am BST | 4.36am BST |
| 04:36 | 04:36 |
| Evidence-based programs are “an investment in the good order of a centre if you get them right,” says Mitchell. | Evidence-based programs are “an investment in the good order of a centre if you get them right,” says Mitchell. |
| “Without doing these kind of things and having a calm, well-structured environment and programs, you end up with riots and disquiet and kids fighting each other.” | “Without doing these kind of things and having a calm, well-structured environment and programs, you end up with riots and disquiet and kids fighting each other.” |
| 4.28am BST | 4.28am BST |
| 04:28 | 04:28 |
| Peter O’Brien, representing Dylan Voller (heavily focused on by Four Corners) suggests while cross-examining Mitchell that children were being “either prohibited or in some way hindered, or even encouraged against making complaints because of staff threats of retribution” in juvenile detention. | Peter O’Brien, representing Dylan Voller (heavily focused on by Four Corners) suggests while cross-examining Mitchell that children were being “either prohibited or in some way hindered, or even encouraged against making complaints because of staff threats of retribution” in juvenile detention. |
| Mitchell says that was the feeling of some children she spoke to in May. | Mitchell says that was the feeling of some children she spoke to in May. |
| “They might have things denied to them or they might be put back in isolation, or kept longer there” she says. | “They might have things denied to them or they might be put back in isolation, or kept longer there” she says. |
| “These are the kind of things that they alluded to.” | “These are the kind of things that they alluded to.” |
| O’Brien wants names. | O’Brien wants names. |
| Mitchell says she’ll have to get advice on that. | Mitchell says she’ll have to get advice on that. |
| 4.17am BST | 4.17am BST |
| 04:17 | 04:17 |
| Phillip Boulton, SC, who is representing Naaja (which he struggled to name at the directions hearing but for the record is the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency) has asked Mitchell what the challenges are in the NT for children held in detention while on remand (estimated at more than 50% of detainees Mitchell thinks). | Phillip Boulton, SC, who is representing Naaja (which he struggled to name at the directions hearing but for the record is the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency) has asked Mitchell what the challenges are in the NT for children held in detention while on remand (estimated at more than 50% of detainees Mitchell thinks). |
| “They aren’t routinely separated from kids who aren’t on remand or who have been sentenced, which is actually another provision of [Opcat], so they don’t form those associations and they don’t form those identities” says Mitchell. | “They aren’t routinely separated from kids who aren’t on remand or who have been sentenced, which is actually another provision of [Opcat], so they don’t form those associations and they don’t form those identities” says Mitchell. |
| She says community based options are “exactly the kind of models that we need”. | She says community based options are “exactly the kind of models that we need”. |
| You need good accountability and safety structures, of course, she adds. Koori courts in other states are also worth looking at. | You need good accountability and safety structures, of course, she adds. Koori courts in other states are also worth looking at. |
| 4.09am BST | 4.09am BST |
| 04:09 | 04:09 |
| Sonia Brown-Hill SC, solicitor general and representing the NT government for the commission, is seeking to cross-examine Mitchell about her statements regarding Don Dale’s educational system, because they “might convey that the educational program... is substandard and inappropriate. It certainly is not - ” | Sonia Brown-Hill SC, solicitor general and representing the NT government for the commission, is seeking to cross-examine Mitchell about her statements regarding Don Dale’s educational system, because they “might convey that the educational program... is substandard and inappropriate. It certainly is not - ” |
| Commissioner White cuts her off. | Commissioner White cuts her off. |
| “Perhaps if you’re going to give evidence you might need to get into the witness box, solicitor.” | “Perhaps if you’re going to give evidence you might need to get into the witness box, solicitor.” |
| Brown-Hill goes ahead. She challenges Mitchell’s previous statements, which Brown-Hill interprets as saying that she believed there was no educational system and no air-conditioning at Don Dale. | Brown-Hill goes ahead. She challenges Mitchell’s previous statements, which Brown-Hill interprets as saying that she believed there was no educational system and no air-conditioning at Don Dale. |
| Mitchell says she was talking about the high security area, and that it was “hot and stifling. Maybe it hadn’t been switched on, she says, but she didn’t see any air-conditioning units. | Mitchell says she was talking about the high security area, and that it was “hot and stifling. Maybe it hadn’t been switched on, she says, but she didn’t see any air-conditioning units. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.10am BST | at 4.10am BST |
| 4.01am BST | 4.01am BST |
| 04:01 | 04:01 |
| Detention as a welfare response | Detention as a welfare response |
| Mitchell has urged against using juvenile detention as a “welfare response.” | Mitchell has urged against using juvenile detention as a “welfare response.” |
| “If you did an in depth analysis into the backgrounds [of kids in juvenile detention], there would be a significant proportion who have had a substantiated care and protection report about them and also been in the care system,” she says. | “If you did an in depth analysis into the backgrounds [of kids in juvenile detention], there would be a significant proportion who have had a substantiated care and protection report about them and also been in the care system,” she says. |
| Others end up in residential units when a community-based home can’t be found, and if they act up the police are called and they end up in detention. | Others end up in residential units when a community-based home can’t be found, and if they act up the police are called and they end up in detention. |
| Detention is the wrong response, she says. | Detention is the wrong response, she says. |
| “That doesn’t mean there are no consequences for your actions. You can still be supervised in the community, you can still have conditions placed on you. But being in a jail is not good for kids. At the end of the day it mostly entrenches criminal identities and associations and, for mine, that’s not a good investment in kids.” | “That doesn’t mean there are no consequences for your actions. You can still be supervised in the community, you can still have conditions placed on you. But being in a jail is not good for kids. At the end of the day it mostly entrenches criminal identities and associations and, for mine, that’s not a good investment in kids.” |
| 3.51am BST | 3.51am BST |
| 03:51 | 03:51 |
| Mitchell is criticising the NT’s recent introduction of an amendment to the Youth Justice Act. Under the previous government, the use of restraints against juveniles in detention was widened, including spithoods and restraint chairs, and the definition left open to interpretation. | Mitchell is criticising the NT’s recent introduction of an amendment to the Youth Justice Act. Under the previous government, the use of restraints against juveniles in detention was widened, including spithoods and restraint chairs, and the definition left open to interpretation. |
| Following Four Corners, the chief minister, Adam Giles, backflipped on the use of restraint chairs and pulled them from use in juvenile centres (but not adult ones). | Following Four Corners, the chief minister, Adam Giles, backflipped on the use of restraint chairs and pulled them from use in juvenile centres (but not adult ones). |
| The removal of restraint descriptions from the act gave more discretion to the commissioner of the day and was “problematic” in terms of compliance with appropriate standards, says Mitchell. | The removal of restraint descriptions from the act gave more discretion to the commissioner of the day and was “problematic” in terms of compliance with appropriate standards, says Mitchell. |
| 3.45am BST | 3.45am BST |
| 03:45 | 03:45 |
| There are issues with public accountability for correctional facilities, Mitchell is describing. | There are issues with public accountability for correctional facilities, Mitchell is describing. |
| Mitchell says the NT government and corrections have tended to rely on the Children’s Commissioner and Ombudsman as the main independent oversight bodies. | Mitchell says the NT government and corrections have tended to rely on the Children’s Commissioner and Ombudsman as the main independent oversight bodies. |
| However she said while the two bodies had a functional level of independence, they did not have legislated unfettered access, to institutions or their records, which reduces transparency and limits oversight, particularly in regards to critical incidents and the use of force. | However she said while the two bodies had a functional level of independence, they did not have legislated unfettered access, to institutions or their records, which reduces transparency and limits oversight, particularly in regards to critical incidents and the use of force. |
| “The biggest failing is that they don’t have access to that public information.” | “The biggest failing is that they don’t have access to that public information.” |
| 3.39am BST | 3.39am BST |
| 03:39 | 03:39 |
| Use of force in Don Dale 'a matter of normal conduct' | Use of force in Don Dale 'a matter of normal conduct' |
| In her capacity for the AHRC, Mitchell has been examining youth detention and oversight, and Australia’s capacity to ratify and implement the optional protocol to the convention against torture (Opcat). | In her capacity for the AHRC, Mitchell has been examining youth detention and oversight, and Australia’s capacity to ratify and implement the optional protocol to the convention against torture (Opcat). |
| She wrote to all governments, including the NT commissioner for corrections, explaining that she was examining how the interests of young people in detention could be monitored under the Opcat. | She wrote to all governments, including the NT commissioner for corrections, explaining that she was examining how the interests of young people in detention could be monitored under the Opcat. |
| Mitchell visited Don Dale, spoke to staff and detainees, and asked detainees to complete a survey. | Mitchell visited Don Dale, spoke to staff and detainees, and asked detainees to complete a survey. |
| “Were you able to identify potential breaches of relative instruments that you’ve identified?,” asks Callaghan. | “Were you able to identify potential breaches of relative instruments that you’ve identified?,” asks Callaghan. |
| “It was clear that isolation was frequently and routinely used and for very long periods of time,” she says, elaborating that it was 23 hours a day for several weeks that some people were held in high security isolation. | “It was clear that isolation was frequently and routinely used and for very long periods of time,” she says, elaborating that it was 23 hours a day for several weeks that some people were held in high security isolation. |
| “It was also clear that the use of force was routinely used as a matter of normal conduct of the business of the organisation, not just... when there was an incident or to overcome an incident.” | “It was also clear that the use of force was routinely used as a matter of normal conduct of the business of the organisation, not just... when there was an incident or to overcome an incident.” |
| “The facility itself is old and ageing and things are broken and toilets are rusty, and as I said before there’s no air-conditioning. It’s very hot. There’s minimal air flow and there are periods of extensive isolation and use of force. And I think all these things are breaches of human rights. | “The facility itself is old and ageing and things are broken and toilets are rusty, and as I said before there’s no air-conditioning. It’s very hot. There’s minimal air flow and there are periods of extensive isolation and use of force. And I think all these things are breaches of human rights. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.01am BST | at 4.01am BST |
| 3.16am BST | 3.16am BST |
| 03:16 | 03:16 |
| Mitchell visited Don Dale around March this year. | Mitchell visited Don Dale around March this year. |
| A lot of the kids were unhappy with the educational provision there, says Mitchell, and they made the comment that they understood that even if they achieved various scores or got through various programs that it would not necessarily contribute to their qualifications. | A lot of the kids were unhappy with the educational provision there, says Mitchell, and they made the comment that they understood that even if they achieved various scores or got through various programs that it would not necessarily contribute to their qualifications. |
| She says the superintendent at the time was “doing what he could” to redevelop an area for recreational and other programs, and putting fans in because none of the areas were air-conditioned. | She says the superintendent at the time was “doing what he could” to redevelop an area for recreational and other programs, and putting fans in because none of the areas were air-conditioned. |
| “It’s a very difficult facility regardless.” | “It’s a very difficult facility regardless.” |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.21am BST | at 3.21am BST |
| 3.02am BST | 3.02am BST |
| 03:02 | 03:02 |
| On education: | On education: |
| Mitchell visited eight juvenile detention centres in the last year and said there were good examples of education programs, particularly those with one-on-one tailored programs for detainees who had fallen well behind. | Mitchell visited eight juvenile detention centres in the last year and said there were good examples of education programs, particularly those with one-on-one tailored programs for detainees who had fallen well behind. |
| “Some of the better ones have really good connections with the mainstream school in the community where that child is from.” | “Some of the better ones have really good connections with the mainstream school in the community where that child is from.” |
| “Many of these young people really enjoy going to the school. For some, it’s the first time they have been at school for a steady period for quite a while so it is a chance for them to catch up a bit and get back on track.” | “Many of these young people really enjoy going to the school. For some, it’s the first time they have been at school for a steady period for quite a while so it is a chance for them to catch up a bit and get back on track.” |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.16am BST | at 3.16am BST |
| 2.56am BST | 2.56am BST |
| 02:56 | 02:56 |
| Mitchell is being quizzed on Australia’s action on various international laws and treaties which are relevant to the detention of children. | Mitchell is being quizzed on Australia’s action on various international laws and treaties which are relevant to the detention of children. |
| She’s made particular mention of the UN convention against torture, and the optional protocol which Australia is currently considering and which would provide oversight mechanisms in places of detention. | She’s made particular mention of the UN convention against torture, and the optional protocol which Australia is currently considering and which would provide oversight mechanisms in places of detention. |
| There is a lot of legal groundwork being done here. | There is a lot of legal groundwork being done here. |
| They move to the convention on the rights of the child and the elements which relate to detention of children. | They move to the convention on the rights of the child and the elements which relate to detention of children. |
| Mitchell notes children “by their nature are developmentally vulnerable”, “have relatively less power as individuals in the world”, and that “institutions are inherently risky places”. | Mitchell notes children “by their nature are developmentally vulnerable”, “have relatively less power as individuals in the world”, and that “institutions are inherently risky places”. |
| “Where children are involved and the relative imbalance of power between adults who are carers and children is heightened, there is much greater risk of abuse and exploitation, and silencing.” | “Where children are involved and the relative imbalance of power between adults who are carers and children is heightened, there is much greater risk of abuse and exploitation, and silencing.” |
| She says being away from family and advocates adds an additional vulnerability. | She says being away from family and advocates adds an additional vulnerability. |
| “Human rights are not rocket science,” says Mitchell. “Everyone deserves the right to be OK and to do well in life.” | “Human rights are not rocket science,” says Mitchell. “Everyone deserves the right to be OK and to do well in life.” |
| “There is a large body of work and, yes, much of it is interrelated but there are also some very specific things around children’s needs which that we need to be cognisant of, particularly when a government is setting out what services and supports and laws it’s going to make in relation to children.” | “There is a large body of work and, yes, much of it is interrelated but there are also some very specific things around children’s needs which that we need to be cognisant of, particularly when a government is setting out what services and supports and laws it’s going to make in relation to children.” |
| Asked what standards are needed, Mitchell says: | Asked what standards are needed, Mitchell says: |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.16am BST | at 3.16am BST |
| 2.35am BST | 2.35am BST |
| 02:35 | 02:35 |
| Megan Mitchell, the national children’s commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC), has taken the stand. | Megan Mitchell, the national children’s commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC), has taken the stand. |
| At an international level, breaches of human rights are an embarrassment to a country, and can impact diplomatic and moral authority, she says. | At an international level, breaches of human rights are an embarrassment to a country, and can impact diplomatic and moral authority, she says. |
| Domestically, international treaties need to be written into law after they’ve been been ratified in Australia, a different approach to some other places where the treaties become law as soon as they’re ratified. | Domestically, international treaties need to be written into law after they’ve been been ratified in Australia, a different approach to some other places where the treaties become law as soon as they’re ratified. |
| “Many human rights in our system are not backed up by legal protections,” she says. | “Many human rights in our system are not backed up by legal protections,” she says. |
| “The most common way that Australia does not comply with international human rights standards is that we do not provide legal protection in our system for human rights.” | “The most common way that Australia does not comply with international human rights standards is that we do not provide legal protection in our system for human rights.” |
| After questioning from counsel, Mitchell says the AHRC identifies noncompliance with human rights obligations, and makes recommendations to government but it’s up to the government of the day to act. The AHRC has no power to ensure compliance. | After questioning from counsel, Mitchell says the AHRC identifies noncompliance with human rights obligations, and makes recommendations to government but it’s up to the government of the day to act. The AHRC has no power to ensure compliance. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.10am BST | at 3.10am BST |