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Scottish parliament debates call for second independence referendum - Politics live Scottish parliament debates call for second independence referendum - Politics live
(35 minutes later)
3.07pm GMT
15:07
Rennie says the case for the union is not just an economic one. He says the UK has been a force for compassion, with one of the biggest aid budgets in the world.
He says no Scottish nationalist will ever tell him he should be ashamed of that.
And that’s it.
The frontbench speeches are over. I will post a summary shortly.
3.03pm GMT
15:03
Rennie says Alex Salmond denied saying that the last referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity. But there was a clip on YouTube of him saying that. And Salmond denied denying that he had said that, even though that was on YouTube too.
He quotes from Alice in Wonderland. Alice asked: “How long is forever?” The white rabbit said it could just be one second. Rennie suggests the SNP’s stance is like this.
2.58pm GMT
14:58
Willie Rennie, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, is speaking now.
Here is his amendment.
As an amendment to motion S5M-04710 in the name of Nicola Sturgeon (Scotland’s Choice), leave out from “and therefore mandates” to end and insert “believes that a second referendum on Scottish independence would only compound the uncertainty of Brexit and its risk to the economy, environment and security; notes that all measures of public opinion show that there is no appetite for such a vote; further believes that there is no mandate for another Scottish independence referendum on the basis of the UK leaving the EU when there are no cast-iron guarantees that full membership of the EU will be sought or granted, and supports the development of a positive future for Scotland inside a federal UK.”
He accuses Harvie of saying manifesto commitments do not count.
That prompts angry jeering.
This is what the Scottish Greens’ manifesto for the Scottish parliament elections said in 2016.
Citizens should be able to play a direct role in the legislative process: on presenting a petition signed by an appropriate number of voters, citizens should be able to trigger a vote on important issues of devolved responsibility. As we proposed on the one year anniversary of the independence referendum, this is the Scottish Greens’ preferred way of deciding to hold a second referendum on independence. If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculations of party political advantage.
Updated
at 3.07pm GMT
2.54pm GMT
14:54
Harvie says leaving the EU is “an act of political wreckage”.
He says other EU countries will get a vote on the Brexit deal.
But under the UK government’s plans, the people of Scotland would be voiceless. They would be the only voiceless country in Europe, he says. He says that is not acceptable.
2.52pm GMT
14:52
Harvie says many leave campaigners said there was no threat to the UK’s place in the single market.
Even Ruth Davidson said after the referendum that she wanted the UK to stay in the single market. He says her abandonment of that position has been “disgraceful”.
He says young voters and foreigner were deliberately excluded from the EU referendum last year. But they should be allowed to vote on the future of the country they live in.
He says the treatment of EU nationals in the UK has been particularly shabby.
He says the Tory and Labour amendments both read like wishful thinking.
2.45pm GMT
14:45
Patrick Harvie, the Green party’s co-convenor in Scotland, is speaking now.
Here is is amendment.
As an amendment to motion S5M-04710 in the name of Nicola Sturgeon (Scotland’s Choice), insert at end “; believes that this gives people in Scotland a choice at a time when there is both the most information and most opportunity to act; further believes that 16 and 17-year-olds and EU citizens, who were excluded from the EU referendum, should be entitled to vote, and considers that this referendum is necessary given the Prime Minister’s decision to negotiate a hard exit from the EU, including leaving the single market, which conflicts with assurances given by the UK Government and prominent Leave campaigners, and which takes no account of the overwhelming Remain vote in Scotland.”
He acknowledges that people have mixed feelings about a second referendum.
He says 2014 was an expression of the will of the people. But so was 2016, he says.
2.43pm GMT
14:43
Dugdale says leaving the UK would make things worse for the poorest people in Scotland.
In six years in this chamber she has never heard an argument to the contrary, she says.
An SNP MSP, Kevin Stewart, says the Tories are making the poor poorer. Would Dugdale be happy to see the Tories in power for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
Dugdale says independence would lead to turbo-charged austerity.
2.40pm GMT
14:40
Dugdale says Sturgeon says the referendum was not divisive. But Dugdale says from her conversations with people she knows it was. Every family and workplace was divided. And last Monday, when Sturgeon announced her call for a referendum, felt just as divisive as the final day of the last campaign.
She says she believes in the union, as a living, breathing union of countries in the UK.
2.37pm GMT
14:37
Dugdale says the SNP used to say the will of the Scottish people should be respected. But it was expressed in 2014. More than 2m Scots voted to remain in the UK. That is the will of the Scottish people and that is what should be respected, she says.
2.35pm GMT
14:35
Kezia Dugdale's speech
Kezia Dugdale, the Scottish Labour leader, is speaking now.
Here is her amendment.
As an amendment to motion S5M-04710 in the name of Nicola Sturgeon (Scotland’s Choice), leave out from “and therefore mandates” to end and insert “; believes that a strong Scottish Parliament within a federal UK would meet these needs; recognises that the overwhelming will of the Scottish people is that there should be no second divisive independence referendum; believes that far from giving Scots a choice, a second independence referendum would only increase uncertainty and cause greater division as the UK faces a hard Tory Brexit, and asserts that there should be no second independence referendum.”
She says she wishes they were having a debate about education.
But they are debating independence because that is all that matters to the SNP.
2.33pm GMT2.33pm GMT
14:3314:33
Davidson says five times in the last six months the SNP government has ignored the wishes of the Scottish parliament.Davidson says five times in the last six months the SNP government has ignored the wishes of the Scottish parliament.
So why should the UK government recognise votes in the Scottish parliament when the Scottish government does not do so?So why should the UK government recognise votes in the Scottish parliament when the Scottish government does not do so?
2.32pm GMT2.32pm GMT
14:3214:32
Davidson says the SNP said the will of the people should drive a second referendum.Davidson says the SNP said the will of the people should drive a second referendum.
But there is none, she says.But there is none, she says.
She allows an intervention from Patrick Harvie, the Green co-convenor, saying he is going against his own manifesto.She allows an intervention from Patrick Harvie, the Green co-convenor, saying he is going against his own manifesto.
Harvie says the Tory manifesto said the UK would stay in the single market.Harvie says the Tory manifesto said the UK would stay in the single market.
Davidson says the government wants to keep access to the single market.Davidson says the government wants to keep access to the single market.
2.29pm GMT2.29pm GMT
14:2914:29
Davidson says the SNP motion amounts to a “bulldozer” approach.Davidson says the SNP motion amounts to a “bulldozer” approach.
That is not what happened in 2014, she says. She says the terms of that referendum were agreed in talks with Westminster.That is not what happened in 2014, she says. She says the terms of that referendum were agreed in talks with Westminster.
She says the SNP described the approach taken in 2014 as “the gold standard approach”. This is not the gold standard approach, she says.She says the SNP described the approach taken in 2014 as “the gold standard approach”. This is not the gold standard approach, she says.
She accuses the SNP of rushing to any microphone “with the angry face on” and making the same old complaints.She accuses the SNP of rushing to any microphone “with the angry face on” and making the same old complaints.
It won’t work, she says.It won’t work, she says.
She says most people in Scotland are sick and tired of these old games.She says most people in Scotland are sick and tired of these old games.
She says Brexit will pose challenges. Why start an independence campaign now when we don’t know how it will play out?She says Brexit will pose challenges. Why start an independence campaign now when we don’t know how it will play out?
And the SNP cannot answer basic questions, such as what the currency will be.And the SNP cannot answer basic questions, such as what the currency will be.
The first minister wants a date, but she cannot give us a plan.The first minister wants a date, but she cannot give us a plan.
2.25pm GMT
14:25
Ruth Davidson's speech
Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, is speaking now.
Here is Davidson’s amendment.
As an amendment to motion S5M-04710 in the name of Nicola Sturgeon (Scotland’s Choice), leave out from “acknowledges” to end and insert “declines the Scottish Government’s proposal for a referendum on independence before April 2019; believes that it would be unfair to ask this question while the process of leaving the EU is still ongoing and while the Scottish Government has failed to set out its own position on independence; considers that no referendum should take place while there is no public or political consent for one, and urges the Scottish Government to focus its efforts on working with the UK Government to secure the best possible new relationship with the EU.”
She says the SNP is prioritising independence, not education.
She quotes Nicola Sturgeon saying on various occasions in the past she was opposed to a second referendum.
Sturgeon says she should consider what was in the SNP’s referendum.
Davidson says she is coming to that.
She quotes Sturgeon saying there would be no referendum if support for independence did not increase.
The latest polling shows it has not increased, she says.
2.22pm GMT
14:22
Sturgeon says there is a fundamental decision to be taken. It can only be made by the people, she says.
And that’s it. Her speech is over.
Updated
at 2.24pm GMT
2.20pm GMT
14:20
Sturgeon says the SNP will set out its plans for independence, so people can make an informed choice.
She says that is in contrast to Brexit, where people were not told what it would involve, and where nine months later people still do not know what it will be like.
2.19pm GMT
14:19
Sturgeon challenges UK government to set out its alternative timetable for a second referendum
Sturgeon says the Scottish parliament should take the decision over the timing of the referendum.
She says the latest time for a referendum should be around the time the UK leaves, in the spring of 2019.
If the UK government disagrees, it should set out an alternative timescale, she says. She says she is prepared to discuss an alternative.
Sturgeon challenges UK government to set out its alternative timetable for a second referendum.
2.15pm GMT
14:15
Sturgeon says she understands why many Scots don’t want another referendum.
But the alternative is to drift through the next two years, hoping for the best, but fearing for the worst.
Scotland would have to accept a hard Brexit, she says.
And Scotland would not then have the option to reject that.
2.13pm GMT
14:13
Sturgeon says the UK government rejected her compromise plan for the single market.
And it has also refused to commit to giving repatriated powers from Brussels to Scotland, she says.
She says the Tories could be in power in Westminster until 2030.
So Scotland should decide what future it wants, she says.
2.10pm GMT
14:10
Nicola Sturgeon's speech
Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, is opening the debate.
She says that she offered the UK government a compromise plan that would keep Scotland in the single market after Brexit. The UK government refused that, she says.
She says the SNP’s manifesto said a second referendum would be justified if there was a material change in circumstances. Brexit qualifies, she says.
She says she did not immediately call for a second referendum after the Brexit vote on 23 June.
Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, says she heard Sturgeon on the radio that morning saying she had asked civil servants to draw up legislation.
Sturgeon says she said at the time she would seek a compromise first.
2.05pm GMT
14:05
MSPs debate call for second independence referendum
The Scottish parliament is now debating Nicola Sturgeon’s call for a second independence referendum.
Here is the motion.
That the parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish government to take forward discussions with the UK government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time, and with a question and franchise, determined by the Scottish parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019.
Updated
at 2.23pm GMT
1.39pm GMT
13:39
Urgent question on Global Laundromat revelations - Verdict
And here is a verdict on the UQ from my colleagues Luke Harding and Nick Hopkins.
Labour politicians were clearly unimpressed by assurances from Simon Kirby that the government has got a grip on money laundering. It hasn’t. Today’s Guardian Laundromat story shows how profound the problem is: $740m flowed through UK banks and nobody noticed.
Kirby said that the National Crime Agency (NCA) was investigating. But when we went to see the NCA last week it admitted Moscow was refusing to cooperate. Without active help from Russian authorities it’s difficult to see how detectives can arrest money launderers or stop similar schemes in future.
For the moment, then, it’s easy for anyone to set up a UK limited company and use it for criminal purposes. This point was made by the SNP’s Roger Mullin who noted – correctly – that limited partnerships were at the heart of the Laundromat scandal. One of the companies we found, Seabon Limited, claimed its assets were £1. In fact, it was involved in transactions worth $9bn.
The most intriguing question came from Labour’s Ben Bradshaw, who wanted to know if any of the Laundromat billions had gone to fund the Trump campaign or Leave.EU. We don’t know the answer. But there are clear signs that some of the money has gone to support pro-Kremlin thinktanks and parties across Europe.
Updated
at 2.21pm GMT
1.37pm GMT
13:37
Urgent question on Global Laundromat revelations - Summary
Recently it was revealed that Simon Kirby, the City minister, had been stripped of his responsibility for Brexit-related matters. A City source told the Sun that Kirby was someone with “no knowledge, no experience and no apparent interest in the City”. Kirby did not do much to restore his reputation with his response to today’s UQ. He floundered badly, prompting unusually harsh criticism from the oppositon.
Here are the key points.
Labour accused the government of “complacency and inaction” over money-laundering. John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, told MPs after hearing Kirby’s opening statement:
I don’t believe the minister recognises the immense gravity of the situation we are facing and that statement reflected, I believe, a complacency on behalf of the government itself ... Money-laundering through London and elsewhere threatens the financial stability of our economy ... It obvious from today’s revelations that the current arrangements are not working. There is widespread, organised and sophisticated criminal activity ... Urgent action is needed by the government to protect the standing of our finance sector and indeed protect our economy. Complacency and inaction is not good enough.
Later other Labour MPs criticised Kirby very strongly. John Mann said he gave the impression of being over-promoted. (See 12.53pm.) Angela Eagle said he was “appallingly complacent”. (See 1.04pm.) Rushanara Ali also said his performance was “appalling”. (See 1.08pm.)
McDonnell called for an inquiry into what measures might be needed to strengthen money-laundering laws.
Kirby said the latest Guardian allegations would be investigated.
The Financial Conduct Authority and the National Crime Agency take any such allegations seriously and will investigate closely whether recent information from the Guardian newspaper regarding money laundering from Russia, or indeed any other media source, would allow the progression of an investigation.
He claimed the government was doing “more than any other” to tackle money-laundering.
This government already does more than any other to tackle the global threat of money-laundering. Since 2010 we have already seized £1.bn in illegal funds and put hundreds of millions more beyond the reach of criminals. We have set up the Panama Papers taskforce, we have hosted the global anti-corruption summit last year and now we are preparing the most significant changes to our anti money-laundering and terrorist finances regime in over a decade ... We are determined to make the UK the most difficult place in the world for international crime networks to channel their finances and we won’t relent in our efforts to do that.
Updated
at 1.45pm GMT