This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2017/oct/19/labors-support-for-coalition-energy-policy-under-microscope-politics-live
The article has changed 21 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 12 | Version 13 |
|---|---|
| Government and Labor trade blows over energy in question time – politics live | Government and Labor trade blows over energy in question time – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 6.04am BST | |
| 06:04 | |
| Also from Mike’s travels today, the leaders meeting Know your Bones advocates Kerri-Anne Kennerley and Cathy Freeman. Presented with zero cynicism because you have all made your points known on that very clear. (insert smiley/wink face here) | |
| 5.56am BST | |
| 05:56 | |
| Tony Abbott has popped his head up, commenting on this story: | |
| Re AFR story. This isn't over. There are five million Australians yet to vote and the NO campaign is appealing to every one of them! | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.59am BST | |
| 5.43am BST | |
| 05:43 | |
| AAP have an update on the Singapore FTA: | |
| Australian universities, lawyers and financial firms will be among the biggest winners from an updated free-trade agreement with Singapore. | |
| Enabling legislation has cleared parliament. | |
| Under the changes, Australian lawyers and financial service providers will enjoy improved access to the Singapore market. | |
| Singapore will also recognise extra law, medicine and allied health qualifications from Australian universities. | |
| There will be new opportunities for Australian businesses to bid for high-value government procurement contracts in Singapore, including road transport, construction and engineering. | |
| There will also be changes to visa lengths of stay for Australian expats in Singapore. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.54am BST | |
| 5.41am BST | |
| 05:41 | |
| Computer has been rebooted, so hopefully that has fixed some of those bugs that were delaying me. Again, apologies. | |
| Let me bring you some of the great Mike Bower’s work to make up for it. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.47am BST | |
| 5.22am BST | 5.22am BST |
| 05:22 | 05:22 |
| Meanwhile in the House... | Meanwhile in the House... |
| PM Malcolm Turnbull and Foreign Minister JBish in #qt @AmyRemeikis @GuardianAus #politicslive pic.twitter.com/ACzeE2xIvl | PM Malcolm Turnbull and Foreign Minister JBish in #qt @AmyRemeikis @GuardianAus #politicslive pic.twitter.com/ACzeE2xIvl |
| 5.21am BST | 5.21am BST |
| 05:21 | 05:21 |
| Is this one of the last times we’ll see this dynamic duo in the chamber? | Is this one of the last times we’ll see this dynamic duo in the chamber? |
| One Nation during #qt today in the senate @GuardianAus @AmyRemeikis #politicslive pic.twitter.com/58EzEOaeGR | One Nation during #qt today in the senate @GuardianAus @AmyRemeikis #politicslive pic.twitter.com/58EzEOaeGR |
| 5.20am BST | 5.20am BST |
| 05:20 | 05:20 |
| NBN is brought up again by Michelle Rowland and Paul Fletcher gives the same answer we have heard all week: that the government has rolled it out to oodles more people than Labor managed and it is on track to be completed by 2020. My computer is about to go out a window (tech problems), so I apologise for not being able to give you the entire answer. | |
| We finish with a dixer to Peter Dutton, who tells everyone just how much safer he’s making Australia and just how much danger it faces from a Labor government – and we are done. | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.34am BST | |
| 5.16am BST | 5.16am BST |
| 05:16 | 05:16 |
| After a bit of kerfuffle over whether or not this question from Anthony Albanese to Malcolm Turnbull is in order: | After a bit of kerfuffle over whether or not this question from Anthony Albanese to Malcolm Turnbull is in order: |
| Albanese: “My question is to the prime minister and I refer to reports today of a frank discussion with the prime minister in which the current deputy prime minister, and I quote, ‘laid bare his fury after he was bombarded with complaints’. Who decided this should happen? The prime minister? The finance minister? All of the above? Why was the deputy cut out? | |
| Turnbull answers: “The honourable member is very well aware, having dealt with other members of parliament, including cross-benchers, over the years during his time as a minister of infrastructure and everyone during the golden era of telecommunications when he was the communications minister, Mr Speaker – as he well knows, grants of all kinds are approved in the usual way by the responsible ministers.” | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.33am BST | |
| 5.13am BST | 5.13am BST |
| 05:13 | 05:13 |
| Greg Hunt answers a dixer with what is becoming the standard line of needing to keep the lights on in hospitals and its back to the main game of Butler vs Turnbull, but the prime minister taps in Josh Frydenberg to take this one. | |
| Butler: | |
| My question is again to the prime minister. The prime minister and the energy minister have apparently assured their party room they would not put a price on carbon or allow carbon trading, but their latest energy policy seems to put a price on carbon and involve carbon trading. Given it looks like a goat, walks like a goat and bleats like a goat, will the prime minister now accept the reality of his own policy or will he continue to pay homage to the volcano gods on his back bench? | |
| Frydenberg: | |
| For all those people listening at home that are struggling with their power bills, particularly in South Australia – the pensioners, the workers at the steelworks, those at the smelter, those in the member’s own electorate – what do you think they are thinking about the political games of those opposite? What do you think they are thinking, Mr Speaker? | |
| Do you think that they are belittling the fact $115-a-year saving reflects badly on those opposite? Because when they were last in office power bills went up by 100%, Mr Speaker, 100%. The dirty dozen of policies. We had hundreds of thousands of jobs lost in the small business sector. We had the dreaded $15bn carbon tax. We had that great democratic experiment. We had the cash for clunkers, we had the pink bats, the ETS, the CPRS, the EIS, the carbon tax. We had every policy under the sun, Mr Speaker! | |
| And now the Labor party’s been presented with what they have asked for: an opportunity for bipartisanship based on expert advice. And as I said to the House, this has received widespread support from groups that said this policy ticks the boxes of lower prices, increased reliability and meeting our international target. | |
| And the Australian Industry Group representing more than a million employees said the plan gives the electricity sector a great deal of flexibility and it gives welcomed recognition of the imperative of maintaining Australia’s trade competitors. And the National Irrigators Council, in all the regional areas across the country, have said this package is welcome. And what about the Manufacturing Australia, who said they have welcomed the government’s new energy plan? What about Apia, who represents the gas companies? They said this National Energy Guarantee strengthens reliability, Mr Speaker. What about Energy Consumers Australia? I thought those opposite were worried about consumers. | |
| This policy integrates the need for reliable power and emissions reduction in the electricity sector at least cost for consumers. And what about PWC, Mr Speaker, who said it provides a long-awaited certainty, reliability and affordability [for] medicine we have been looking for to treat the ills of our energy market, Mr Speaker? | |
| This is why this policy put forward by the experts is deserving of bipartisan support. If you don’t support it, we will because we believe in lower power prices and a more reliable system. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.30am BST | |
| 5.08am BST | 5.08am BST |
| 05:08 | 05:08 |
| Another dixer and then back to Butler vs Turnbull on carbon prices. | Another dixer and then back to Butler vs Turnbull on carbon prices. |
| Butler: “My question is again to the prime minister. I refer to the prime minister’s previous answer about his latest energy policy. So why does the Energy Security Board have a picture of a coal generator paying a renewable generator for carbon abatement? How is that not carbon trading? | Butler: “My question is again to the prime minister. I refer to the prime minister’s previous answer about his latest energy policy. So why does the Energy Security Board have a picture of a coal generator paying a renewable generator for carbon abatement? How is that not carbon trading? |
| Turnbull: The trading is of physical energy, a physical electricity. The honourable member’s inability to understand the way the energy market works is really staggering. The honourable member does not understand that the electricity market works with the trading of electricity – that will continue and retailers will be able to trade to ensure that they meet their obligations, whether it’s on emissions or on reliability. Really, no won ... no wonder South Australia is in such a bad shape with a Labor party, with the member for Port Adelaide. | Turnbull: The trading is of physical energy, a physical electricity. The honourable member’s inability to understand the way the energy market works is really staggering. The honourable member does not understand that the electricity market works with the trading of electricity – that will continue and retailers will be able to trade to ensure that they meet their obligations, whether it’s on emissions or on reliability. Really, no won ... no wonder South Australia is in such a bad shape with a Labor party, with the member for Port Adelaide. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.23am BST | at 5.23am BST |
| 5.06am BST | 5.06am BST |
| 05:06 | 05:06 |
| After a dixer to Julie Bishop on how Australia is meeting its Paris targets: | After a dixer to Julie Bishop on how Australia is meeting its Paris targets: |
| The plan that we have announced through the National Energy Guarantee will also enable us to meet our international obligations and our Paris agreement target will see emissions reductions of 26-28% on 2005 levels by 2030. This is reasonable and achievable and what it means is emissions per person will halve and already emissions per capita in Australia are the lowest they have been in 27 years because we have met, indeed exceeded, the first Kyoto target by 128m tonnes. We are on track to meet, indeed exceed, the second Kyoto target by 2020. Mr Speaker, our Paris agreement targets are reasonable and they compare well with other developed countries, for example Canada, Japan, New Zealand, and the EU are in the target range between 25-35% by 2030. | The plan that we have announced through the National Energy Guarantee will also enable us to meet our international obligations and our Paris agreement target will see emissions reductions of 26-28% on 2005 levels by 2030. This is reasonable and achievable and what it means is emissions per person will halve and already emissions per capita in Australia are the lowest they have been in 27 years because we have met, indeed exceeded, the first Kyoto target by 128m tonnes. We are on track to meet, indeed exceed, the second Kyoto target by 2020. Mr Speaker, our Paris agreement targets are reasonable and they compare well with other developed countries, for example Canada, Japan, New Zealand, and the EU are in the target range between 25-35% by 2030. |
| Mark Butler tries again on the carbon price angle, asking Malcolm Turnbull if he was aware of the head of Energy Council’s confirmation yesterday that the NEG did have a carbon price. The prime minister says many things he has said before, but does not answer the question. | Mark Butler tries again on the carbon price angle, asking Malcolm Turnbull if he was aware of the head of Energy Council’s confirmation yesterday that the NEG did have a carbon price. The prime minister says many things he has said before, but does not answer the question. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.22am BST | at 5.22am BST |
| 5.02am BST | 5.02am BST |
| 05:02 | 05:02 |
| Mark Butler takes a second go at asking whether the energy policy includes a carbon price. | Mark Butler takes a second go at asking whether the energy policy includes a carbon price. |
| The prime minister says no. Because ... I’ll just let him explain it: | The prime minister says no. Because ... I’ll just let him explain it: |
| The trading is trading of physical energy, it is trading of electricity. It is not trading of permits. There are no certificates, there is no permit. It is trading of physical energy which, as the honourable member should be well aware, happens all the time. | The trading is trading of physical energy, it is trading of electricity. It is not trading of permits. There are no certificates, there is no permit. It is trading of physical energy which, as the honourable member should be well aware, happens all the time. |
| Millions of dollars being traded every hour of the day and that has always been the case, but, Mr Speaker, as John Pearce, chair of the Australian Energy Market Commission, which is the rules maker, and a member of the Energy Security Board, as he said today: ‘There are no subsidies or certificates involved in this guarantee, and in this sense it does not involve a price or a tax on carbon. We are not pricing carbon. What we are pricing is reliability.’ | Millions of dollars being traded every hour of the day and that has always been the case, but, Mr Speaker, as John Pearce, chair of the Australian Energy Market Commission, which is the rules maker, and a member of the Energy Security Board, as he said today: ‘There are no subsidies or certificates involved in this guarantee, and in this sense it does not involve a price or a tax on carbon. We are not pricing carbon. What we are pricing is reliability.’ |
| Mr Speaker, the honourable member may yearn for the subsidy – Mr Speaker, this is the part of the Labor party’s position that I find most baffling. The leader of the opposition goes to a solar farm and he stands there and says this: ‘This is fantastic.’ He is blinded by the light. He says it’s fantastic. He says: ‘This is cheaper than new coal. It is so good.’ Then he says: ‘That is why we have to subsidise it.’ Talk about science-fiction, Mr Speaker. | Mr Speaker, the honourable member may yearn for the subsidy – Mr Speaker, this is the part of the Labor party’s position that I find most baffling. The leader of the opposition goes to a solar farm and he stands there and says this: ‘This is fantastic.’ He is blinded by the light. He says it’s fantastic. He says: ‘This is cheaper than new coal. It is so good.’ Then he says: ‘That is why we have to subsidise it.’ Talk about science-fiction, Mr Speaker. |
| What Australians deserve is affordable, reliable energy. What Labor has delivered is unaffordable and unreliable energy. They try the law of physics, as you heard the Energy Market Operator was asked about the reliability requirement, which she is having to intervene in the honourable member’s state constantly to maintain stability, and she said, ‘well, you have to comply with the laws of physics’. | What Australians deserve is affordable, reliable energy. What Labor has delivered is unaffordable and unreliable energy. They try the law of physics, as you heard the Energy Market Operator was asked about the reliability requirement, which she is having to intervene in the honourable member’s state constantly to maintain stability, and she said, ‘well, you have to comply with the laws of physics’. |
| That’s true. But not if you are in the Labor party, apparently. They think windmills will turn when there is no wind. They think solar panels will generate in the middle of the night. That’s moon beams! Mr Speaker, worst of all, worst of all, what this recklessness does is impose higher costs and less reliable power. Australians know Labor does not have the sense, it does not have the management or the business sense to deliver affordable and reliable power. Energy will always be unreliable and more expensive under Labor. | That’s true. But not if you are in the Labor party, apparently. They think windmills will turn when there is no wind. They think solar panels will generate in the middle of the night. That’s moon beams! Mr Speaker, worst of all, worst of all, what this recklessness does is impose higher costs and less reliable power. Australians know Labor does not have the sense, it does not have the management or the business sense to deliver affordable and reliable power. Energy will always be unreliable and more expensive under Labor. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.20am BST | at 5.20am BST |
| 4.58am BST | 4.58am BST |
| 04:58 | 04:58 |
| George Christensen gifts the next dixer to Barnaby Joyce, who drops the basket weaver line for something else: | George Christensen gifts the next dixer to Barnaby Joyce, who drops the basket weaver line for something else: |
| The Labor party policies of wind chime power, of dream catcher nets – that is where their power policy comes from. We believe in coal-fired power. We believe in gas-fired power. We believe in hydro. | The Labor party policies of wind chime power, of dream catcher nets – that is where their power policy comes from. We believe in coal-fired power. We believe in gas-fired power. We believe in hydro. |
| We believe in people having a job. We will make sure these people have a job. We do not think that blue-collar workers are politically irrelevant and what we see on the Labor party all the time is that policy is driven by the green movement. They have given up on working-class people. They have given up on manufacturing jobs. They have no vision for Australia, they have no vision for Queensland. They do not have the confidence anymore of the once great Labor party that they had been. | We believe in people having a job. We will make sure these people have a job. We do not think that blue-collar workers are politically irrelevant and what we see on the Labor party all the time is that policy is driven by the green movement. They have given up on working-class people. They have given up on manufacturing jobs. They have no vision for Australia, they have no vision for Queensland. They do not have the confidence anymore of the once great Labor party that they had been. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.14am BST | at 5.14am BST |
| 4.56am BST | 4.56am BST |
| 04:56 | 04:56 |
| A simple question from the opposition to the government: under the prime minister’s latest energy policy, will energy retailers be able to trade to meet their carbon emission reduction obligations – “yes” or “no”? | A simple question from the opposition to the government: under the prime minister’s latest energy policy, will energy retailers be able to trade to meet their carbon emission reduction obligations – “yes” or “no”? |
| Does not bring a simple answer from the prime minister: | Does not bring a simple answer from the prime minister: |
| In the national electricity market, there are twice as much energy traded as is dispatched. There is an enormous trading system within the energy market, both trading over the counter and then through the Australian stock exchange and, of course, that won’t change – that is the virtue of the model that has been presented, the mechanism that’s been presented by the Energy Security Board that rather than having a subsidy scheme like the Renewable Energy Target, or a Clean Energy Target, that operates outside the market, you have market rules both in terms of guaranteeing reliability and guaranteeing a level of emissions consistent with Paris within those constraints trading can occur freely. | In the national electricity market, there are twice as much energy traded as is dispatched. There is an enormous trading system within the energy market, both trading over the counter and then through the Australian stock exchange and, of course, that won’t change – that is the virtue of the model that has been presented, the mechanism that’s been presented by the Energy Security Board that rather than having a subsidy scheme like the Renewable Energy Target, or a Clean Energy Target, that operates outside the market, you have market rules both in terms of guaranteeing reliability and guaranteeing a level of emissions consistent with Paris within those constraints trading can occur freely. |
| That is why retailers are able to achieve the mix of generation sources that suits them. And they will all be able to find the lowest cost and most competitive way to deliver on those two obligations. It is clear, Mr Speaker, that is the mechanism, that is why it’s been recommended by the Energy Security Board. And those on the other side who are keen students of energy policy will know that John Pearce, the chairman of the energy markets commission, has been proposing an approach like this for years, for at least seven years, he said today. He’s always been a critic of the Renewable Energy Target, or evolutions of it, because it does not operate within the confines of the market and therefore does not allow participants to achieve what we all seek to achieve. | That is why retailers are able to achieve the mix of generation sources that suits them. And they will all be able to find the lowest cost and most competitive way to deliver on those two obligations. It is clear, Mr Speaker, that is the mechanism, that is why it’s been recommended by the Energy Security Board. And those on the other side who are keen students of energy policy will know that John Pearce, the chairman of the energy markets commission, has been proposing an approach like this for years, for at least seven years, he said today. He’s always been a critic of the Renewable Energy Target, or evolutions of it, because it does not operate within the confines of the market and therefore does not allow participants to achieve what we all seek to achieve. |
| Or I hope the honourable members on the other side will finally see reason and recognise that what we have here is a real opportunity to make a break with the mistakes of the past, a real game changer recommended by the experts, not a proposal that the minister and I cooked up. This is a recommendation from the experts. It is built on the foundations of the Finkel Review. It has been praised and endorsed by the chief scientist. It comes from a body established on the recommendation of the chief scientist. | Or I hope the honourable members on the other side will finally see reason and recognise that what we have here is a real opportunity to make a break with the mistakes of the past, a real game changer recommended by the experts, not a proposal that the minister and I cooked up. This is a recommendation from the experts. It is built on the foundations of the Finkel Review. It has been praised and endorsed by the chief scientist. It comes from a body established on the recommendation of the chief scientist. |
| This is the mechanism that can end the climate wars and deliver affordable, reliable energy for Australians and meet our emissions reduction obligations. Surely, Mr Speaker, at some point Labor has to stop the politicking and get on board for affordability, reliability and responsibility in Australia’s energy system. | This is the mechanism that can end the climate wars and deliver affordable, reliable energy for Australians and meet our emissions reduction obligations. Surely, Mr Speaker, at some point Labor has to stop the politicking and get on board for affordability, reliability and responsibility in Australia’s energy system. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.13am BST | at 5.13am BST |
| 4.52am BST | 4.52am BST |
| 04:52 | 04:52 |
| This week must be starting to get to more than just your correspondent – Josh Frydenberg has just received a verbal smack from the Speaker for swearing. | This week must be starting to get to more than just your correspondent – Josh Frydenberg has just received a verbal smack from the Speaker for swearing. |
| He was responding to a dixer from Craig Kelly, who, it must be said, may have helped get him in the mood, given as he tends to present his questions like he’s interrupting a conversation at the pub bar, to tell someone why they are wrong. Frydenberg: | He was responding to a dixer from Craig Kelly, who, it must be said, may have helped get him in the mood, given as he tends to present his questions like he’s interrupting a conversation at the pub bar, to tell someone why they are wrong. Frydenberg: |
| I thank the member for Hughes for his question and know that he supports the government’s efforts to reduce power prices and create a more reliable system. Indeed, the National Energy Guarantee is a credible, workable, pro-market policy which will help lower prices and create a more reliable system. It involves no subsidies, no taxes and no trading schemes, Mr Speaker. And given the 371,500 jobs we have created in the last 12 months, lower energy prices will continue to help this strong jobs growth continue. | I thank the member for Hughes for his question and know that he supports the government’s efforts to reduce power prices and create a more reliable system. Indeed, the National Energy Guarantee is a credible, workable, pro-market policy which will help lower prices and create a more reliable system. It involves no subsidies, no taxes and no trading schemes, Mr Speaker. And given the 371,500 jobs we have created in the last 12 months, lower energy prices will continue to help this strong jobs growth continue. |
| Now, Mr Speaker, I know that those opposite like to write books – their front bench often looks like an Oprah Winfrey Book Club! We had the Good Fight, we had from the member for Fenner, a book about billionaires - an odd title - we had from the leader of the opposition, For The Common Good. It would have been better titled, ‘If you don’t know where you going, any road will get you there.’ Another, it is titled Changing Jobs but then we discovered the member for Port Adelaide had a book, Mr Speaker. It is a pretty bland cover, it is called The Climate Wars and I thought, ‘what does it say’? The truth is, we in Labor have sent too many mixed signals about climate policy. He said we have made mistakes in the design of our policies and the presentation, Mr Speaker. But then, this was the best. I was on a street corner in Port Adelaide and a guy said, ‘I was never sold on the whole climate issue, I thought you were all piss weak.’ | Now, Mr Speaker, I know that those opposite like to write books – their front bench often looks like an Oprah Winfrey Book Club! We had the Good Fight, we had from the member for Fenner, a book about billionaires - an odd title - we had from the leader of the opposition, For The Common Good. It would have been better titled, ‘If you don’t know where you going, any road will get you there.’ Another, it is titled Changing Jobs but then we discovered the member for Port Adelaide had a book, Mr Speaker. It is a pretty bland cover, it is called The Climate Wars and I thought, ‘what does it say’? The truth is, we in Labor have sent too many mixed signals about climate policy. He said we have made mistakes in the design of our policies and the presentation, Mr Speaker. But then, this was the best. I was on a street corner in Port Adelaide and a guy said, ‘I was never sold on the whole climate issue, I thought you were all piss weak.’ |
| He withdrew. The Speaker then had a word: | He withdrew. The Speaker then had a word: |
| Before I call the leader of the opposition, I say to the minister – the leader of the House can cease interjecting for just a second – I say to the minister that that was – he’s withdrawn. If there is a repeat of that, I’ll have no choice but to take severe action against him and I ask him to be mindful not only of the audience watching ... but the audience here in parliament house. | Before I call the leader of the opposition, I say to the minister – the leader of the House can cease interjecting for just a second – I say to the minister that that was – he’s withdrawn. If there is a repeat of that, I’ll have no choice but to take severe action against him and I ask him to be mindful not only of the audience watching ... but the audience here in parliament house. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.08am BST | at 5.08am BST |
| 4.45am BST | 4.45am BST |
| 04:45 | 04:45 |
| Over in the Senate, Mike Bowers has just informed me there have been celebrations when George Brandis pronounced Richard Di Natale’s name correctly. | Over in the Senate, Mike Bowers has just informed me there have been celebrations when George Brandis pronounced Richard Di Natale’s name correctly. |
| They always seem to have more fun in the Senate. | They always seem to have more fun in the Senate. |
| Sidenote: the high court is yet to decide on the futures of Malcolm Roberts, Nick Xenophon, Matt Canavan and Fiona Nash (as well as Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam, who have already resigned, and Barnaby Joyce in the lower house). Could this be the last Senate question time some of those see in a while? | Sidenote: the high court is yet to decide on the futures of Malcolm Roberts, Nick Xenophon, Matt Canavan and Fiona Nash (as well as Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam, who have already resigned, and Barnaby Joyce in the lower house). Could this be the last Senate question time some of those see in a while? |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.58am BST | at 4.58am BST |