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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2018/sep/05/peter-dutton-au-pair-visa-inquiry-afl-boss-to-give-evidence-to-senate-committee-live
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| Version 3 | Version 4 |
|---|---|
| Peter Dutton au pair visa inquiry: leak referred to federal police – live | Peter Dutton au pair visa inquiry: leak referred to federal police – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| Watt wants to know whether the department incurred as a result of the intervention. Essentially because airlines have to be notified when a deportation is due to occur, but in these two cases it didn’t go ahead. | |
| The officials say they don’t think so, but take it on notice. | |
| We’re told that in both the Brisbane and Adelaide cases the request for an intervention briefing came from the department liaison officer placed in the minister’s office. | |
| Pezzullo says a request from the department liaison officer is “always taken to be a request from the minister”. | |
| Watt is getting increasingly frustrated with Pezzullo. | |
| He accuses him of “coaching witnesses” after Pezzullo steps in before another officer asks a question and suggests he asks it in the general rather than the specific. | |
| Watt wants to know what it was that the au pair at the centre of the Brisbane case said that made ABF officers believe she intended to work illegally. | |
| Watt withdraws the remark. | |
| The committee chair Louise Pratt has just sent a not-too-subtle message about the immigration department’s referral of the leaked emails to the AFP. | |
| She asks Pezzullo whether he’s aware of the AFP’s investigation into leaked material from NBN Co. | |
| That didn’t go well for the AFP. | |
| “I know the providence of those documents, I’m chair of this committee [and] I need to ensure witnesses to this committee have protections and have to make sure Mr Pezzullo is aware of that,” Pratt says. | |
| So, we know those emails were submitted to the Senate inquiry. | |
| McKim asks Border Force head Michael Outram whether the ABF has policies to deal with potential conflicts of interest between officers and the people they deal with. He suggests generally yes, but takes the question on notice. | |
| Nick McKim from the Greens is here. We’re going over ministerial intervention numbers again. He wants to know how many ministerial interventions occurred contrary to departmental advice. | Nick McKim from the Greens is here. We’re going over ministerial intervention numbers again. He wants to know how many ministerial interventions occurred contrary to departmental advice. |
| Pezzullo says the department’s advice is more about identifying “risk factors” to intervention, rather than suggesting whether or not to intervene. | Pezzullo says the department’s advice is more about identifying “risk factors” to intervention, rather than suggesting whether or not to intervene. |
| It gives the minister the options that he has and a description of what some of the risk factors are including the fact [in the Adelaide case] that there was a very high risk of the person intending to work so in that circumstance it would be important to apply stipulations. | It gives the minister the options that he has and a description of what some of the risk factors are including the fact [in the Adelaide case] that there was a very high risk of the person intending to work so in that circumstance it would be important to apply stipulations. |
| Oh now we’re on to secrecy laws! | Oh now we’re on to secrecy laws! |
| O’Sullivan wants to know whether the recipient of a leaked document – ie a journalist or politician – is committing a crime. Pezzullo is hesitant to offer an opinion, but gently reminds the senator that his government is currently seeking to pass just a law. | O’Sullivan wants to know whether the recipient of a leaked document – ie a journalist or politician – is committing a crime. Pezzullo is hesitant to offer an opinion, but gently reminds the senator that his government is currently seeking to pass just a law. |
| O’Sullivan then asks whether Pezzullo would be concerned if he was told the person who leaked the emails – whether real or hypothetical – was “sitting at this table”. | O’Sullivan then asks whether Pezzullo would be concerned if he was told the person who leaked the emails – whether real or hypothetical – was “sitting at this table”. |
| Pezzullo offers no comment. | Pezzullo offers no comment. |
| It’s Barry O’Sullivan’s turn: the Nationals senator was very eager to ask some questions last session. He get his turn and asks whether, hypothetically of course, the leaking of interdepartmental emails would be concerning and/or pose a national security risk. | It’s Barry O’Sullivan’s turn: the Nationals senator was very eager to ask some questions last session. He get his turn and asks whether, hypothetically of course, the leaking of interdepartmental emails would be concerning and/or pose a national security risk. |
| Pezzullo agrees: “I would find that behaviour unacceptable and probably in breach of criminal law.”. | Pezzullo agrees: “I would find that behaviour unacceptable and probably in breach of criminal law.”. |
| He then confirms the non-hypothetical leak has been referred to the Australian federal police. | He then confirms the non-hypothetical leak has been referred to the Australian federal police. |
| Everyone then spends a while getting a bit confused about whether we’re talking about the hypothetical leak or the actual leak. | Everyone then spends a while getting a bit confused about whether we’re talking about the hypothetical leak or the actual leak. |
| That first session was really defined by Labor MP Murray Watt’s frustration that he’s not getting the answers he wants from these departmental officials. | That first session was really defined by Labor MP Murray Watt’s frustration that he’s not getting the answers he wants from these departmental officials. |
| We learned (or didn’t learn): | We learned (or didn’t learn): |
| While there is no evidence either of the two au pairs broke their tourist visa conditions, no compliance checks were actually undertaken. | While there is no evidence either of the two au pairs broke their tourist visa conditions, no compliance checks were actually undertaken. |
| Dutton has intervened 4,129 times in visa cases since becoming immigration minister in 2014, but up to June he had intervened in as few as 14 tourist visa cases. | Dutton has intervened 4,129 times in visa cases since becoming immigration minister in 2014, but up to June he had intervened in as few as 14 tourist visa cases. |
| The Brisbane case – where Dutton intervened on behalf of an au pair who had worked for a former police colleague – may have been the first intervention. | The Brisbane case – where Dutton intervened on behalf of an au pair who had worked for a former police colleague – may have been the first intervention. |
| Murray Watt wanted to know whether there are any other examples of a person subject to deportation receiving ministerial intervention so quickly. The department couldn’t answer. | Murray Watt wanted to know whether there are any other examples of a person subject to deportation receiving ministerial intervention so quickly. The department couldn’t answer. |
| Both women left the country on time. | Both women left the country on time. |
| Watt has been asking about timeframes. He wants to know whether any other ministerial interventions occurred as quickly as the Adelaide case. | Watt has been asking about timeframes. He wants to know whether any other ministerial interventions occurred as quickly as the Adelaide case. |
| The emails I referred to earlier show she was granted the visa in less than 24 hours. | The emails I referred to earlier show she was granted the visa in less than 24 hours. |
| He’s not getting far though. | He’s not getting far though. |
| He asks the very quiet commissioner of Border Force, Michael Outram, whether he’s ever seen a ministerial intervention occur so quickly. Outram responds that he’s only aware of the two specific cases that are the subject of the inquiry. | He asks the very quiet commissioner of Border Force, Michael Outram, whether he’s ever seen a ministerial intervention occur so quickly. Outram responds that he’s only aware of the two specific cases that are the subject of the inquiry. |
| “I hope we’ve got someone here who can answer some of these questions,” Watt responds. | “I hope we’ve got someone here who can answer some of these questions,” Watt responds. |
| And that takes us to morning tea! | And that takes us to morning tea! |
| Nationals senator Barry O’Sullivan is unhappy that he hasn’t been given any questions yet. I don’t have anything else to add on that. He’s just complaining a lot. | Nationals senator Barry O’Sullivan is unhappy that he hasn’t been given any questions yet. I don’t have anything else to add on that. He’s just complaining a lot. |
| Pezzullo is saying he’s “not prepared to speak to documents put into the media through unlawful and indeed criminal disclosures”. | Pezzullo is saying he’s “not prepared to speak to documents put into the media through unlawful and indeed criminal disclosures”. |
| He’s talking about this story, which revealed leaked emails show the paperwork related to the Adelaide case shows a new visa was signed with two hours to spare before the young woman was to be deported from Australia. | He’s talking about this story, which revealed leaked emails show the paperwork related to the Adelaide case shows a new visa was signed with two hours to spare before the young woman was to be deported from Australia. |
| A good breakdown of the numbers we’re dealing with here. | A good breakdown of the numbers we’re dealing with here. |
| Peter Dutton au pair inquiry:* Minister's intervened in visa cases 4129 times since taking on role in 2014* Granted 2000+ visas in 2015 alone* However, he's intervened in as few as 14 tourist visa cases during past four years* First au pair case may have been first occassion | Peter Dutton au pair inquiry:* Minister's intervened in visa cases 4129 times since taking on role in 2014* Granted 2000+ visas in 2015 alone* However, he's intervened in as few as 14 tourist visa cases during past four years* First au pair case may have been first occassion |
| Watt is asking about visa compliance. It has previously been reported by us that Dutton had ben advised that granting a visa to one of the au pairs in question was of “high risk” because she had previously been warned about work restrictions. | Watt is asking about visa compliance. It has previously been reported by us that Dutton had ben advised that granting a visa to one of the au pairs in question was of “high risk” because she had previously been warned about work restrictions. |
| The department confirms no compliance was undertaken after the new visa was granted. | The department confirms no compliance was undertaken after the new visa was granted. |
| Labor senator Kimberley Kitching wants to know who asked for the minister’s intervention in the Brisbane and Adelaide cases. Was it a third party? We sort of know the answer to this, but she’s obviously trying to get the department on the record. | Labor senator Kimberley Kitching wants to know who asked for the minister’s intervention in the Brisbane and Adelaide cases. Was it a third party? We sort of know the answer to this, but she’s obviously trying to get the department on the record. |
| Pezzullo: | Pezzullo: |
| In the general the two women involved in the Brisbane and Adelaide case sought assistance [but] who approached the minister’s office, who got in contact, their bona fides and relationship with the minister is known to us at one level because of the document trail created. We have second- or third-hand knowledge of the concerned party [but] who the minster’s office deals with who gets in touch with them is really a matter for the minister and his staff. | In the general the two women involved in the Brisbane and Adelaide case sought assistance [but] who approached the minister’s office, who got in contact, their bona fides and relationship with the minister is known to us at one level because of the document trail created. We have second- or third-hand knowledge of the concerned party [but] who the minster’s office deals with who gets in touch with them is really a matter for the minister and his staff. |
| Abetz again: | Abetz again: |
| The ministerial intervention in these two cases, in the department’s view, were completely legal? | The ministerial intervention in these two cases, in the department’s view, were completely legal? |
| Pezzullo: | Pezzullo: |
| Well we would never put the minister in a position of acting unlawfully. Acting within the relevant guidelines we provided submissions which set out certain options and he exercised his options [within] the law. | Well we would never put the minister in a position of acting unlawfully. Acting within the relevant guidelines we provided submissions which set out certain options and he exercised his options [within] the law. |
| Abetz concludes that it was all entirely appropriate. Case closed! | Abetz concludes that it was all entirely appropriate. Case closed! |
| Abetz is now asking whether he’d be breaking the law if he let a tourist do the washing up after he invited them over for dinner. | Abetz is now asking whether he’d be breaking the law if he let a tourist do the washing up after he invited them over for dinner. |
| Many a person that has been on a tourist visa has in fact stayed at our residence and has kindly assisted on occasion with washing up or preparing a meal for my wife and I and I was just wanting to ensure that would not be a breach of the law. | Many a person that has been on a tourist visa has in fact stayed at our residence and has kindly assisted on occasion with washing up or preparing a meal for my wife and I and I was just wanting to ensure that would not be a breach of the law. |
| Good that we’re sticking closely to the issue at hand. | Good that we’re sticking closely to the issue at hand. |