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General election: politicians from seven parties face off in ITV debate General election: politicians from seven parties face off in ITV debate
(32 minutes later)
All the day’s developments including the Greens, Brexit party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and Lib Dems joining two main parties for TV debate in SalfordAll the day’s developments including the Greens, Brexit party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and Lib Dems joining two main parties for TV debate in Salford
Farage says that Obama introduced the “so-called muslim ban” and nobody complained about that. On the idea that “Trump wants to buy the NHS”, Sunak tells Burgon: “You really must stop making these reckless allegations”.
Farage says Trump “isn’t going to buy it, Richard”. Burgon brings up the recording of Farage saying that the UK should look at an insurance model for healthcare. The Brexit party leader says he never said that. “Dear oh dear. Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie,” says Farage.
Again, here’s our story on that, for a bit of background.
Burgon says there’s a real risk that Johnson is going to do a “sweetheart deal” with Donald Trump on the NHS. Price says that the biggest threat to the NHS in Wales is the Labour government, not Trump. Burgon accuses the Plaid leader of playing Tory games by attacking Labour and not them.
Siân Berry says that the credit rating agencies downgraded the UK’s credit scores, so it is not true to say that the Conservatives had managed the economy well. Sunak said he’s read the report and that they had said this was because of the uncertainty caused by Brexit. Berry says that uncertainty was caused by his party’s mishandling of Brexit.
Burgon is asked about the IFS’s assessment that Tory and Labour plans were unfeasible. Burgon says that the IFS is entitled to its opinion, but that other thinktanks have taken a different view.
Sunak says that debt will be down with a Conservative government. Farage tells him to stop lying. “You cut the deficit and not the debt,” he said. “Debt is massively up.”
Sturgeon says it is rich for Farage to accuse someone else of lying after the line that the UK would be able to spend an extra £350m on the NHS after Brexit. Farage says he never campaigned under that slogan.
From Nazia Parveen backstage in Salford:
Disbelief and a fair amount of shock across the political spectrum backstage in ITV’s spin room when Farage defended Donald Trump saying “men say bad things sometimes”.
On the nuclear deterrent:
Swinson says we should keep our deterrent and work for multilateral disarmament. Sturgeon says that we don’t countenance chemical weapons anymore, so why should we allow weapons that wipe out swathes of the population. Farage says we live in a dangerous world and should keep the deterrent.
Burgon says Labour’s policy is to keep Trident as a deterrent, but that politicians shouldn’t boast about being willing to push the button.
“Why have it then?” says Farage. “Exactly,” says Sturgeon.
Sunak attacks Corbyn for questioning the evidence that Russia was behind the chemical attack on Salisbury. Burgon says that’s not true. Here’s our story from the time:
Sunak says Trump is here for a Nato summit to discuss security and that is very important for keeping us safe. He says it’s important that a UK prime minister can maintain those relationships.
Price says it can never be acceptable to talk about “grabbing women by the pussy” and says that we have a prime minister who described gay men like him as “bumboys” and Muslim women as letterboxes. “These men are not fit to be in public life,” he says.
Richard Burgon says he wouldn’t attend a state dinner with Donald Trump. He says it’s important to have a prime minister who thinks for themselves. Corbyn was right to oppose the invasion of Iraq, he says.
Farage says that Obama introduced the “so-called Muslim ban” and nobody complained about that.
He is very American and not to everybody’s tastes, but “he is our most important friend in the world”. Farage says that the biggest lie of the election campaign is that the US president wants to buy the NHS.He is very American and not to everybody’s tastes, but “he is our most important friend in the world”. Farage says that the biggest lie of the election campaign is that the US president wants to buy the NHS.
Asked by Swinson about Trump’s sexual assault boasts, Farage says: “Men say dreadful things sometimes ... but if all of us were caught out on a night out after a drink...”Asked by Swinson about Trump’s sexual assault boasts, Farage says: “Men say dreadful things sometimes ... but if all of us were caught out on a night out after a drink...”
Burgon brings up Trump’s “Muslim ban” and the locking up of immigrant children. He says Trump wants his “fat-cat friends to have access to our National Health Service”.Burgon brings up Trump’s “Muslim ban” and the locking up of immigrant children. He says Trump wants his “fat-cat friends to have access to our National Health Service”.
“That’s just not true,” says Farage.“That’s just not true,” says Farage.
Sturgeon says that relations with the US are important but, when it comes to Trump, the government “should sup with a very long spoon”.Sturgeon says that relations with the US are important but, when it comes to Trump, the government “should sup with a very long spoon”.
On “the special relationship”: Swinson says there are three people in the special relationship: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. She says Trump has previously boasted about sexually assaulting women and threatens the rights of minorities.On “the special relationship”: Swinson says there are three people in the special relationship: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. She says Trump has previously boasted about sexually assaulting women and threatens the rights of minorities.
Farage says the special relationship is more important than ever in the face of the European defence union which is being set up to compete with Nato.Farage says the special relationship is more important than ever in the face of the European defence union which is being set up to compete with Nato.
Siân Berry says she is terrified of Trump. She says she thinks about the powerful peace project we could build with the power of Nato and the budget behind Trident renewal.Siân Berry says she is terrified of Trump. She says she thinks about the powerful peace project we could build with the power of Nato and the budget behind Trident renewal.
There’s an ad break now. The Guardian north of England correspondent Nazia Parveen is watching the debate backstage:There’s an ad break now. The Guardian north of England correspondent Nazia Parveen is watching the debate backstage:
On immigration: Farage says there has been an 8m rise in immigration since Tony Blair came to power. He says he knows that people come here and work very hard in coffee shops, but that there are too many of them.On immigration: Farage says there has been an 8m rise in immigration since Tony Blair came to power. He says he knows that people come here and work very hard in coffee shops, but that there are too many of them.
Berry says that the NHS is staffed by immigrants. “Isn’t that terrible?” says Farage. “Why aren’t we training our own people?”Berry says that the NHS is staffed by immigrants. “Isn’t that terrible?” says Farage. “Why aren’t we training our own people?”
Burgon says that he doesn’t trust the Conservatives to deal with migrant rights after the Windrush scandal.Burgon says that he doesn’t trust the Conservatives to deal with migrant rights after the Windrush scandal.
Burgon says Labour will not be doing any back room or front room deals with the SNP.Burgon says Labour will not be doing any back room or front room deals with the SNP.
Sturgeon says that she would just ask that Labour recognises the Scottish government’s right to hold another referendum.Sturgeon says that she would just ask that Labour recognises the Scottish government’s right to hold another referendum.
Swinson says that she disagrees with the SNP, but the Tory party and Labour say they are in favour of the union while doing things to undermine it.Swinson says that she disagrees with the SNP, but the Tory party and Labour say they are in favour of the union while doing things to undermine it.
Sturgeon says that she respects the fact people in the room are not in favour of independence but she doesn’t respect the fact they wish to “deny the people of Scotland the right to be in charge of that decision”.Sturgeon says that she respects the fact people in the room are not in favour of independence but she doesn’t respect the fact they wish to “deny the people of Scotland the right to be in charge of that decision”.
Sunak says that Farage has been a tireless campaigner for Brexit, but that the Tories are the only party that can deliver Brexit. “But what are you going to deliver?” says Farage. The Brexit party leader says that leaving would mean not having the European court of justice ruling over our country, as Johnson’s deal would allow.Sunak says that Farage has been a tireless campaigner for Brexit, but that the Tories are the only party that can deliver Brexit. “But what are you going to deliver?” says Farage. The Brexit party leader says that leaving would mean not having the European court of justice ruling over our country, as Johnson’s deal would allow.
Adam Price quotes Tony Benn’s criticism of “weathervane politicians” as opposed to “signpost politicians”. Burgon says he is disappointed that Price is “trying to play the Tory game” of blaming Labour for the Tory-created Brexit crisis.Adam Price quotes Tony Benn’s criticism of “weathervane politicians” as opposed to “signpost politicians”. Burgon says he is disappointed that Price is “trying to play the Tory game” of blaming Labour for the Tory-created Brexit crisis.
Sturgeon asks Sunak if he can take a no-deal Brexit off the table. “We already have a deal to leave the European Union,” he says. Sturgeon points out that it’s only a withdrawal deal. He doesn’t answer the question.
“I thought you liked independence,” Farage says to Sturgeon, raising some modest laughs from the audience.
Burgon says he will speak to his local party members after Corbyn has negotiated a new deal in order to decide whether he will support leave or remain.
Swinson asks Burgon if he thinks it’s possible for Labour to negotiate a better Brexit deal than remaining in the European Union. “The point is it would be for the people to decide,” he says.
“Can we just cut to the chase, there is no Brexit deal better than remaining,” says Sturgeon.
Now a question on Brexit. Sunak says that whether you voted leave or remain, it’s time “for us as a country to move forward”.
Sturgeon says Scotland voted to remain by a proportion of 60%. “It’s not a sign of a strong union if Scotland can be dragged out against our will.”
Price says that many people in the Welsh coalfield communities voted for Brexit because they were exasperated by their situation. He says Brexit will do the opposite of economic change for Wales.
Swinson says that Brexit is nowhere near done. We know from all of the government’s analysis that remaining in the EU will mean we have more money,” she says.
Burgon says that Labour knows its role is to bring people together and that is why Corbyn will remain neutral and be “an honest broker”. “On one hand we have the Lib Dems who want to ignore everybody who voted leave and on the other side we have the Thatcherites ... who want to ignore everyone who voted to remain,” he says.
Berry says that the best way to get back to fixing the country is through a “people’s vote” and she does think that Brexit is a bad idea.
Farage says that democracy works through “losers’ consent” and the other parties are refusing to do that. If they lost a second referendum, remainer parties still wouldn’t accept it, he said.
Nigel Farage says: “Is there anybody else on the platform concerned that there are 74 convicted terrorists out on our streets?”
Sturgeon interjects: “We are all concerned, Nigel.”
“Surely they should be locked up for life?” Farage continues. “Silence is golden.”
Siân Berry says that police cuts are real and that officers do not have time together out of their vans to work with communities. We need real rehabilitation, she says. We can’t just leave people to fester in jail.
Adam Price says there are serious questions that need to be answered. He makes reference to the Aitchison report, which contained recommendations which were ignored. Price says that he wants a prime minister who will not seek to divide at a time like this, pointing to Johnson’s attempt to blame “a lefty government” this morning.
Sunak says McDonnell once signed a letter calling for MI5 to be disbanded and for the police to be disarmed. Burgon says that the Conservatives always reach for pre-packaged lines to smear the Labour party. “The priority needs to be to reduce the [number of] victims of crime, not writing rhetoric-filled articles,” he says.
Sturgeon highlights Johnson’s claim this morning that parliament had blocked his Queen’s speech, when parliament actually passed it.
Sturgeon says that Johnson has done a disservice to victims by the “crass way he has sought to politicise it”. She says that it wasn’t right that Khan was allowed out, but that lessons should be learned in the right way.
Sunak says that Johnson has long been a believer that serious offenders shouldn’t be eligible for automatic release.
Sunak answers a question from an audience member as to why Usman Khan was free to stage his attack. He repeats the line that has been repeated by the government all day that it was because of rules introduced by the last Labour government.
Burgon says that it is not true that the only option was to release the London Bridge attacker. “People don’t want history lessons after this atrocity,” he says. They want answers about how we are going to keep them safe, he says. Burgon then goes on to talking about deep cuts to services. “We can’t do security on the cheap”.
Farage says that nobody has apologised. He says that these people “have the virus of jihadism” and should never be released unless we are sure they are cured.
The debate is under way. Each politician can make an opening statement.
Siân Berry from the Greens says “we are in dark and dangerous times” and that promises are often broke by politicians. She says that things can change if people vote for it. Brexit would change things for the worse, she says. “Shine a light in the darkness with your vote. If not now, when?”
Jo Swinson from the Lib Dems says that Boris Johnson can’t be bothered to talk to voters tonight so he’s sent his cheerleader, Nigel Farage. “We deserve better than the Farage, Trump, Johnson nightmare,” she says. “I love out country, our United Kingdom. Open, fair, generous,” she says.
Rishi Sunak for the Conservatives says that he and everybody else is fed up with Brexit. “The only way to move on is to elect a Conservative government, so let’s end the delay and get Brexit done,” he says.
The Brexit party’s Nigel Farage says that confidence in politics has never been so low. He says that every mainstream party told people to vote remain and they didn’t. He says that once we have left the EU, that is just the start of the revolution that needs to happen. “The Brexit party are the new radicals ... Let’s get back to being a proper functioning democracy.”
Nicola Sturgeon for the SNP says that she wants an independent Scotland but also wants to play her part by locking Johnson out of Downing Street. She says that Brexit will cause chaos for years to come.
Adam Price for Plaid Cymru says that in Wales it’s difficult not to feel despair “because we are going backwards from health to the economy”. “For us it’s not more Westminster, it’s more Wales,” he says. “We will put out people first,” he says. “We want them to feel hope again in those beating Welsh hearts.”
Richard Burgon from Labour starts by extending sympathies to the victims of Friday’s London Bridge attack. He says that deep cuts to vital public services happened at the same time that the government made huge tax give aways to big businesses. “Labour are for the many, not for the few”.
Politicians are gearing up for this evening’s election debate in Salford. I’ll be bringing you updates throughout.
Here’s a reminder of those taking part.
Richard Burgon for Labour
Rishi Sunak for the Conservatives
Jo Swinson for the Lib Dems
Nicola Sturgeon for the SNP
Nigel Farage for the Brexit party
Adam Price for Plaid Cymru
Siân Berry for the Greens
The Guardian’s former home affairs editor, Alan Travis, has written about the government’s “lock terrorists up and throw away the key” response to Friday’s attack.