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Cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill to be questioned by MPs about work of government and Priti Patel - live news Cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill to be questioned by MPs about work of government and Priti Patel - live news
(32 minutes later)
Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happenRolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen
Q: Is there any precedent for all ministers being shared between two departments (as they are now, between the Foreign Office and DfID)?
Sedwill says he is not aware of one. But he says in the past some ministers served the Foreign Office and DfID.
Q: We now have joint ministers serving the Foreign Office and the Department for International Development. To whom are their officials accountable?
To both departments, Sedwill says. He says the costs are shared out.
Q: If someone had expressed support for jihadis online, would they be acceptable?
Sedwill says of course in those circumstances security vetting would be removed.
He says he does not want to comment on Andrew Sabisky, on his views or on the vetting that he received.
Q: Was Andrew Sabisky a spad or a contractor?
Sedwill says he was a contractor. He was on a day rate, Sedwill thinks.
He says it is not unusual for contractors to be used.
Q: Did the PM approve his appointment?
Sedwill says the PM does not approve contractors.
Q: Was Sabisky vetted?
Sedwill says it is normal for people to be vetted. In certain cases this is not necessary. But he says in this case he thinks security clearance was done.
He says Sabisky would only have been at meeting for which he had appropriate security clearance.
Q: What vetting process did Sabisky go through with regard to security?
Sedwill says he will write to the committee about this.
There are different checks he says: a basic security check; a counter-terrorism check; a more advanced security clearance; and developed vetting, which used to be called positive vetting, which is the highest check, used for people with access to security matters.
Sedwill says he does not want to elaborate on what developed vetting involves.
A few minutes later William Wragg, the committee chair, says he has just found the developed vetting form online.
Sedwill says the form may be online, but he does not want to say what background checks are involved.
Labour’s Lloyd Russell-Moyle goes next.
Q: The Conservative spad website says the No 10 communications director would be ultimately responsible for all hiring decisions. Is that correct? Or is the PM ultimately in charge?
Sedwill says the website is not a matter for him.
Q: Will the government benefit from having more weirdos and misfits in government?
Sedwill says he likes Gus O’Donnell’s take on this; O’Donnell, a former cabinet secretary, said anyone willing to work long hours for less money than they would get elsewhere could be considered a weirdo or a misfit.
Sedwill says he would not necessarily use these terms. But he supports the idea of trying to bring in new people into government who might have something to contribute.
Sedwill says that in principle he approves of Dominic Cummings’ desire to bring more ‘weirdos and misfits’ into government.
Q: A new spad website has been set up. How is that being handled?
Sedwill says that is nothing to do with him. That is a Conservative party matter. He says it is up to politicians to identify advisers they might want to recruit.
Q: So who pays for it?
The Conservative party, says Sedwill.
He says Jack Straw, who he used to work for, ran a recruitment process when he was looking for special advisers.
He says after ministers have identified people they want to hire, the civil service then brings them into the system.
Q: Do you decide salaries?
Sedwill says that is a government minister. Various rules apply.
Sedwill says anyone operating on behalf of the PM has to operate with his authority, and ultimately with his approval.
And he says the PM is the ultimate arbiter of the ministerial code. He says he can only advise the PM on this.
Q: Can you tell us about the new HR adviser being appointed to oversee special advisers (Spads)?
Sedwill says the government has been trying to provide more professional HR support to spads.
He says spads serve with the consent of the PM. If that consent is withdrawn, statutory employment rights apply.
Q: When is the review of spads’ employment terms going to end?
Sedwill says it is not a “capital R” review.
Q: Do spads join a trade union?
Sedwill says they can. Some join the First Division Association.
Q: How will ones like the Sonia Khan incident be resolved in future?
Sedwill says he cannot discuss this specific case.
But he says any special adviser who loses their job has statutory employment rights.
Q: Does the ministerial code need to be rewritten?
Sedwill says spads are part of collective government, but normally they have a close relationship with their minister too.
Q: There has been media speculation that you could not focus properly on the problems in the Home Office because of your national security role?Q: There has been media speculation that you could not focus properly on the problems in the Home Office because of your national security role?
Sedwill says he was on leave some of the time during this period. He would have been on leave even if he had not been national security adviser. But he was in touch constantly anyway.Sedwill says he was on leave some of the time during this period. He would have been on leave even if he had not been national security adviser. But he was in touch constantly anyway.
He says the composition of the job has changed in the past, and will change again in the future.He says the composition of the job has changed in the past, and will change again in the future.
David Mundell, the Tory former Scottish secretary, is asking questions now.David Mundell, the Tory former Scottish secretary, is asking questions now.
Q: There has been a lot of criticism of your “double jobbing” (Sedwill being national security adviser and cabinet secretary). How do you respond to that?Q: There has been a lot of criticism of your “double jobbing” (Sedwill being national security adviser and cabinet secretary). How do you respond to that?
Sedwill says this is not a new issue. In the past the cabinet secretary was also running the civil service, doing the job that John Manzoni does.Sedwill says this is not a new issue. In the past the cabinet secretary was also running the civil service, doing the job that John Manzoni does.
He says, as cabinet secretary and national security adviser, his responsibilities overlap with the PM’s.He says, as cabinet secretary and national security adviser, his responsibilities overlap with the PM’s.
He says before 2010 there was no national security adviser. Before 2010 the cabinet secretary also oversaw national security.He says before 2010 there was no national security adviser. Before 2010 the cabinet secretary also oversaw national security.
Q: Is there anything that the permanent secretary to the Scottish government does not have to report to you?Q: Is there anything that the permanent secretary to the Scottish government does not have to report to you?
Yes, says Sedwill. He says he would not expect the Scottish government’s permanent secretary to tell him about Scottish government policy.Yes, says Sedwill. He says he would not expect the Scottish government’s permanent secretary to tell him about Scottish government policy.
Q: If there was a problem in devolved administrations, would the permanent secretary come to you?Q: If there was a problem in devolved administrations, would the permanent secretary come to you?
Sedwill says the cabinet secretary could become involved.Sedwill says the cabinet secretary could become involved.
Q: Has the permanent secretary in the Scottish or Welsh government ever had to report misbehaviour by a first minister to you?Q: Has the permanent secretary in the Scottish or Welsh government ever had to report misbehaviour by a first minister to you?
Sedwill says there is a limit to what he can say on this case. But he says the system as he described (that ultimately a complaint would be brought to him) has applied.Sedwill says there is a limit to what he can say on this case. But he says the system as he described (that ultimately a complaint would be brought to him) has applied.
Q: Why is the Northern Ireland civil service considered a separate service, but not the Scottish and Welsh civil service?Q: Why is the Northern Ireland civil service considered a separate service, but not the Scottish and Welsh civil service?
Sedwill says the Northern Ireland civil service is separate because the Irish civil service was separate before 1922. That separation continued after 1922, he says. But he says they try to bind the Northern Ireland civil service into the GB one, so that they have access to the same talent pool.Sedwill says the Northern Ireland civil service is separate because the Irish civil service was separate before 1922. That separation continued after 1922, he says. But he says they try to bind the Northern Ireland civil service into the GB one, so that they have access to the same talent pool.
Q: Do permanent secretaries still have weekly meetings?Q: Do permanent secretaries still have weekly meetings?
Yes, says Sedwill.Yes, says Sedwill.
Q: And government policy is discussed there?Q: And government policy is discussed there?
Yes, says Sedwill. They also talk about civil service capabilities.Yes, says Sedwill. They also talk about civil service capabilities.
Q: Do the permanent secretaries of the Scottish and Welsh government attend?Q: Do the permanent secretaries of the Scottish and Welsh government attend?
Normally yes, says Sedwill. But he says that was not the case during the 2014 referendum (when the UK government and the Scottish government were at odds over independence).Normally yes, says Sedwill. But he says that was not the case during the 2014 referendum (when the UK government and the Scottish government were at odds over independence).
Sedwill says these meetings are normally information sharing meeting.Sedwill says these meetings are normally information sharing meeting.
Sedwill says he is the line manager for the head of the civil service for the Scottish government and the Welsh government.Sedwill says he is the line manager for the head of the civil service for the Scottish government and the Welsh government.
But he says, in that situation, the first minister is equivalent to a cabinet minister, who is expected to get on with the permanent secretary of their government, but also equivalent to the UK PM, in that they have the final say.But he says, in that situation, the first minister is equivalent to a cabinet minister, who is expected to get on with the permanent secretary of their government, but also equivalent to the UK PM, in that they have the final say.
Q: So if the Scottish government managed to stop Brexit, you would have given the permanent secretary of the Scottish government five stars for implementing Scottish government policy.Q: So if the Scottish government managed to stop Brexit, you would have given the permanent secretary of the Scottish government five stars for implementing Scottish government policy.
Sedwill says (jokes?) that that would depend on whether or not the Scottish government’s civil service deserved the credit.Sedwill says (jokes?) that that would depend on whether or not the Scottish government’s civil service deserved the credit.
Q: Would you describe yourself as the line manager for permanent secretaries?Q: Would you describe yourself as the line manager for permanent secretaries?
Sedwill says he is their line manager. He conducts annual performance appraisals.Sedwill says he is their line manager. He conducts annual performance appraisals.
He says he has had to have a conversation where someone’s performance was “off the pace”.He says he has had to have a conversation where someone’s performance was “off the pace”.
Sedwill says he has had to tell permanent secretaries to improve their performance.Sedwill says he has had to tell permanent secretaries to improve their performance.
The SNP MP Ronnie Cowan asks about Sir Philip Rutnam’s accusations against Priti Patel.The SNP MP Ronnie Cowan asks about Sir Philip Rutnam’s accusations against Priti Patel.
Sedwill says there is a limit to what he can say. He says Rutnam has threatened legal action, although he has not initiated that yet.Sedwill says there is a limit to what he can say. He says Rutnam has threatened legal action, although he has not initiated that yet.
Q: But where could someone like Rutnam go with a complaint like that.Q: But where could someone like Rutnam go with a complaint like that.
Sedwill says, speaking generally, a permanent secretary could take it to him. He might take it up with the PM.Sedwill says, speaking generally, a permanent secretary could take it to him. He might take it up with the PM.
Q: Have you ever warned a PM before appointing someone to cabinet?Q: Have you ever warned a PM before appointing someone to cabinet?
Sedwill says his advice to the PM. But before cabinet appointments are made, he gives advice, based on what he knows.Sedwill says his advice to the PM. But before cabinet appointments are made, he gives advice, based on what he knows.
Q: Would that be a private matter if you were asked about that at an employment tribunal?Q: Would that be a private matter if you were asked about that at an employment tribunal?
Sedwill says he would have to take legal advice on that. But he would not expect to have to disclose that.Sedwill says he would have to take legal advice on that. But he would not expect to have to disclose that.
Sedwill indicates that he would not want to tell an employment tribunal about any advice be gave to the PM before he appointed Priti Patel as home secretary.Sedwill indicates that he would not want to tell an employment tribunal about any advice be gave to the PM before he appointed Priti Patel as home secretary.
Sedwill says he regards the resignation of Rutnam as a “regrettable incident”.Sedwill says he regards the resignation of Rutnam as a “regrettable incident”.
But he says he does not see the need for “further regulations” governing the relationship between permanent secretaries and cabinet minister. In most cases, the status quo works, he argues.But he says he does not see the need for “further regulations” governing the relationship between permanent secretaries and cabinet minister. In most cases, the status quo works, he argues.
Sedwill says he does not see the case for new rules governing official/ministerial relations in the light of Philip Rutnam’s resignation.Sedwill says he does not see the case for new rules governing official/ministerial relations in the light of Philip Rutnam’s resignation.
Q: What can a permanent secretary do if they are unhappy with their minister?
Sedwill says their job is to make this work.
Sedwill says the job of officials is to give candid, honest, impartial advice, right up to the point where a decision is taken.
He says secretaries of state have a role in appointing permanent secretaries.
But they have tenure. If they did not, they would be under pressure just to tell ministers what they wanted to hear.
He says 99% of the time people manage these relationships.
Q: What course of action would be available to a minister dissastisfied with her permanent secretary?
Sedwill says you would expect her to raise that with the official. If they could not raise it directly, he would expect them to raise it with him.
Q: A civil servant was quoted in the Sunday Telegraph saying that the convention is that, if the relationship between a senior civil servant and new minister breaks down, the official should move. Is that right?
Sedwill says sometimes officials do move.
But he says the expectation is for officials and ministers to conduct themselves courteously.
But if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. He would then take action.
The Tory MP David Jones is asking the questions next.
Q: There has been a lot of talk about one minister bullying staff. Do we need a definition of bullying for the ministerial code?
Sedwill says he himself may have been seen as “blunt and forthright”.
He says behaviour that might be acceptable towards an equal would be unreasonable if shown towards someone more junior.
He says you can have bullying at junior levels too, between people on the same grade.
He says fortunately people are now more confident about reporting complaints about bullying.
Sir Mark Sedwill is speaking now.
He says the job of the cabinet secretary is try to try to resolve disputes between ministers and civil servants.
Q: Is there a formal process for restoring harmony?
Sedwill says there is no formal process. But he tries to ensure the top team is working together.
If there were a complaint about a minister, just as if there were a complaint about anyone, that would be investigated. That might lead to behavioural advice - telling people what they should do.
Q: Would you recommend a secretary of state going for coaching?
Sedwill says he has not recommended that. But there are proposals for ministers to get training in how to deal with major projects.
Q: What about coaching for dealing with staff?
Sedwill says he has not recommended that, but that might be an option.
Sedwill does not rule out recommending coaching for ministers who need advice on how to deal with staff.
William Wragg, the Conservative MP who chairs the committee, asks the first question. He asks Sir John Manzoni why he is still in post. He was due to leave last year, Wragg says.
Manzoni says it was decided that it was not a good time to leave. His term of office was extended to 31 March, he says.
The public administration and constitutional affairs committee hearing is just starting.
There is a live feed here.
The witnesses are Sir Mark Sedwill, who combines being cabinet secretary and head of the civil service with being national security adviser (a controversial arrangement, which may well come up) and Sir John Manzoni, the chief executive of the civil service.
Last week BuzzFeed published a lengthy article about Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, by Alex Wickham and Alberto Nardelli exploring how someone who was widely expected to be forced out last summer when Boris Johnson became PM has now made himself indispensable to Johnson and his most powerful adviser, Dominic Cummings. It is worth reading in full, and it may well come up in the select committee hearing. Here’s an extract.
Excluding Huawei from Britain’s 5G network will “significantly set back” the government’s ambitions to extend broadband access, a former chairman of BT has warned. As the Press Association reports, Sir Mike Rake, who now acts as an adviser to the Chinese tech giant, hit out at what he said were “ill-informed assertions” about the dangers of allowing the company access to the UK’s critical national infrastructure. In an open letter Rake said:
Rake was speaking ahead of a debate this afternoon which will see Tory rebels try to defeat the government on an amendment saying that Huawei’s involvement in the UK’s 5G network should not last beyond the end of 2022. But it is not clear yet whether or not the amendment will be “called” by the Speaker - ie, put to a vote.
Good morning. House of Commons select committees finally started sitting last week, and this morning much of Westminster will be focused on the public administration and constitutional affairs committee (PACAC), where Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, is giving evidence.
Sedwill is the most powerful civil servant in Whitehall and even in quiet times his job is fascinating. More recently, for a host of reasons, he has found himself at the centre of the news agenda. This is what the committee is saying about the hearing.
In theory the hearing should be gripping. But in practice - well, maybe not. Cabinet secretaries are a bit like the Queen; they may know everything, but they have also perfected the art of speaking at length in public without giving anything much away. We will find out soon whether PACAC has enough guile to tempt Sedwill into making news.
Here is the agenda for the day.
9.45am: Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, gives evidence to the Commons public administration and constitutional affairs committee.
11.30am: Matt Hancock, the health secretary, takes questions in the Commons.
After 12.30pm: MPs begin debating the remaining stages of the telecommunications infrastructure (leasehold property) bill. As my colleague Kate Proctor reports, Tory rebels wants to force a vote on an amendment that would force the government to remove Huawei from the UK’s 5G network by the end of 2022.
3.15pm: John Bercow, the former Commons Speaker, speaks at a conference on Parliament and Brexit.
As usual, I will be covering breaking political news as it happens, as well as bringing you the best reaction, comment and analysis from the web. I plan to post a summary when I wrap up.
I will be covering some Westminster coronavirus developments, but our main coronavirus coverage is here, on our special live blog.
You can read all the latest Guardian politics articles here. Here is the Politico Europe roundup of this morning’s political news. And here is the PoliticsHome list of today’s top 10 must-reads.
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