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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/nov/03/uk-politics-live-labour-criticises-pm-as-tories-urged-to-vote-down-paterson-lobbying-inquiry-findings
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UK politics live: Rayner accuses Tories of ‘wallowing in sleaze’ after Speaker allows vote on move to stop Paterson suspension | UK politics live: Rayner accuses Tories of ‘wallowing in sleaze’ after Speaker allows vote on move to stop Paterson suspension |
(31 minutes later) | |
Latest updates: crunch vote – which will see Tory MPs told to shelve a report from the cross-party standards committee – will go ahead after 3pm | Latest updates: crunch vote – which will see Tory MPs told to shelve a report from the cross-party standards committee – will go ahead after 3pm |
Debbonaire says it would be extraordinary for the Commons to overturn the standards committee findings. | |
And only last month, in the Rob Roberts case, the government was opposing retrospectively changing the rules, she says. | |
She says it is only Tory MPs who want to shelve the committee’s report. | |
Debbonaire says the government is giving out the impression that paid advocacy is fine. | |
It is being argued that Owen Paterson had no right of appeal. | |
But the commissioner’s findings were reviewed by the cross-party standards committee, she says. | |
And, she says, just because witnesses wanted to give evidence in person, that does not mean it should always happen. That does not happen in courts, she says; it is not the case anyone can always give evidence. | |
Thangam Debbonaire, the shadow leader of the Commons, is responding for Labour. | |
She says the committee concluded that this was an egregious case of paid advocacy. | |
Dame Margaret Hodge (Lab) intervenes to suggest that the most logical explanation for what the government is doing is that it is worried about the findings of further standards committee inquiries. | |
Debbonaire agrees that there is something odd about the timing of this. She says if the government wanted a debate on a new disciplinary process for MPs, it could have scheduled one itself. | |
Rees-Mogg says Owen Paterson has suffered, through the suicide of his wife, more than anything the Commons can impose in punishment. | |
He ends by quoting from Portia’s speech in the Merchant of Venice on the quality of mercy. | |
Rees-Mogg says in the House of Lords peers do have a right of appeal against a finding by the standards commissioner. | |
He confirms that the government is backing the Leadsom amendment. (See 9.55am.) | |
He says the review the Leadsom would set up would be a method that would allow the Commons to reset the process. | |
He says the new committee it would set up, chaired by the former Tory cabinet minister John Whittingdale, would not be the “judge, jury and executioner” in the Owen Paterson case. The committee would just decide whether or not the case should be reviewed. | |
Stephen Timms (Lab) says, if the exception mentioned by Rees-Mogg to the lobbying rule is allowed in the way Rees-Mogg suggested, then in practice there would be no ban on paid advocacy at all. | |
Rees-Mogg says there should a whistleblowing exemption. But he says in this case there has been a dispute about how widely that should apply. | |
Rees-Mogg says there is no consistency in the amount of time investigations take under the current procedure. He says a complaint about Chris Bryant, the standards committee’s chair, was resolved in just a week. The Paterson case took two years, he says. | |
He says the committee itself has acknoweldged that the time taken for inquiries is a problem. | |
An MP points out Rees-Mogg has already used up a third of the time set aside for this debate. | |
Rees-Mogg says that is because he has been responding to questions. | |
Yvette Cooper (Lab) says the old committee came to a view as to whether Owen Paterson broke the rules on paid advocacy. Why does Rees-Mogg think a new committee would do a better job? | |
Rees-Mogg says a new committee might come to the same conclusisons. But what matters is process, he says. | |
Alistair Carmichael (Lib Dem) says he is not opposed to the idea of reforming the system. But he says it is important to build a consensus first. The government is not doing that, he says. | |
Rees-Mogg says Owen Paterson was acting as a whistleblower, which is why he was entitled to make representations on behalf of companies paying him. He says Paterson pointed out problems with carcinogens in milk and processed foods and he claims this saved lives. | |
Rees-Mogg says it is the government’s view that MPs should get the same or similar rights to people accused of misconduct in other professions. That includes the right to examine witnesses, he says. | Rees-Mogg says it is the government’s view that MPs should get the same or similar rights to people accused of misconduct in other professions. That includes the right to examine witnesses, he says. |
Rees-Mogg says the rules allow the parliamentary commissioner for standards to set up a panel to investigate in serious cases. But this did not happen in this case, he says. | Rees-Mogg says the rules allow the parliamentary commissioner for standards to set up a panel to investigate in serious cases. But this did not happen in this case, he says. |
Michael Fabricant (Con) says the commissioner refused to hear evidence from 17 witnesses offered up by Owen Paterson. | Michael Fabricant (Con) says the commissioner refused to hear evidence from 17 witnesses offered up by Owen Paterson. |
Chris Bryant, the Labour chair of the committee, says these witnesses gave evidence in writing. That is a normal procedure, he says. (See 10.57am.) | Chris Bryant, the Labour chair of the committee, says these witnesses gave evidence in writing. That is a normal procedure, he says. (See 10.57am.) |
Fabricant says they should have given evidence in person, so they could be cross-examined. | Fabricant says they should have given evidence in person, so they could be cross-examined. |
Dame Margaret Hodge (Lab) says it would be “terrible for our democracy” if the standards committee report were to be overturned. | Dame Margaret Hodge (Lab) says it would be “terrible for our democracy” if the standards committee report were to be overturned. |
Florence Eshalomi (Lab) says paid advocacy has been banned since 1695. Why is the government bending the rules? | Florence Eshalomi (Lab) says paid advocacy has been banned since 1695. Why is the government bending the rules? |
Rees-Mogg says it isn’t. He says Owen Paterson was using a whistleblowing exemption. | Rees-Mogg says it isn’t. He says Owen Paterson was using a whistleblowing exemption. |
Richard Burgon (Lab) says this looks dodgy because it is. This is the most corrupt government in modern times, he says. | Richard Burgon (Lab) says this looks dodgy because it is. This is the most corrupt government in modern times, he says. |
Rees-Mogg says Burgon is the acme of partisanship. | Rees-Mogg says Burgon is the acme of partisanship. |
Steve Baker (Con) says Paterson is not being let off. The review of his case could lead to an even worse outcome for him, he says. | Steve Baker (Con) says Paterson is not being let off. The review of his case could lead to an even worse outcome for him, he says. |
Rees-Mogg says that is right. | Rees-Mogg says that is right. |
Jess Phillips (Lab) asks Rees-Mogg if he would be saying all this if a Labour MP were involved. | Jess Phillips (Lab) asks Rees-Mogg if he would be saying all this if a Labour MP were involved. |
Rees-Mogg claims he would be doing that. | Rees-Mogg claims he would be doing that. |
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, is opening the debate. | Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, is opening the debate. |
He says complaints about the current system are too numerous to avoid. | |
He says he is not here to defend Owen Paterson. He says his concern is the fairness of the system. He says Paterson did not get a right of appeal. | He says he is not here to defend Owen Paterson. He says his concern is the fairness of the system. He says Paterson did not get a right of appeal. |
Kevin Hollinrake (Con) suggests that the committee itself functions as an appeal body, because it reviews the findings of the parliamentary commissioner for standards. | Kevin Hollinrake (Con) suggests that the committee itself functions as an appeal body, because it reviews the findings of the parliamentary commissioner for standards. |
Rees-Mogg says the committee cannot be an appeal body, because it is the committee’s report that MPs are considering. | Rees-Mogg says the committee cannot be an appeal body, because it is the committee’s report that MPs are considering. |
He says he would like to think that the house as a whole, when it debates the committee’s report, could serve as providing an appeal process. But he says that cannot happen because it is too partisan. | He says he would like to think that the house as a whole, when it debates the committee’s report, could serve as providing an appeal process. But he says that cannot happen because it is too partisan. |
That triggers loud laughter from opposition MPs, who believe that it is the government that is being partisan. | That triggers loud laughter from opposition MPs, who believe that it is the government that is being partisan. |
Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the Speaker, is taking the chair for the debate. | Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the Speaker, is taking the chair for the debate. |
He says Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, will open the debate, and Chris Bryant, the chair of the standards committee, will get to respond at the end. | He says Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, will open the debate, and Chris Bryant, the chair of the standards committee, will get to respond at the end. |
He confirms that he has selected Andrea Leadsom’s amendment. | He confirms that he has selected Andrea Leadsom’s amendment. |
And he tells MPs that, while they can criticise the disciplinary process, they should not attack Commons officials who are not able to defend themselves. | And he tells MPs that, while they can criticise the disciplinary process, they should not attack Commons officials who are not able to defend themselves. |
This is a reference to Kathryn Stone, the parliamentary commissioner for standards. In its report the standards committee criticised Owen Paterson for making what it described as serious and unsubstantiated allegations against her. The committee said: | This is a reference to Kathryn Stone, the parliamentary commissioner for standards. In its report the standards committee criticised Owen Paterson for making what it described as serious and unsubstantiated allegations against her. The committee said: |